video piracy - IRC ?

[chronodekar]

There is a lot of hue and cry about video piracy, and rightfully so (I know I won't like it if someone went about distributing MY work for free). But, for the most part, much of the attention is on torrent networks. This normally involves sending notices to web-sites that host trackers and sending letters to end-seeders themselves. In other words, SOME effort is made to stop it.

What about distribution via IRC networks? Can't the file-hosts be traced and shut-down ?

I asked this question on another forum and the folks there were "it can't be done for IRC !!!". I find that hard to believe.

-chronodekar

 

[Fox5]

IRC is just less well known, and the networks aren't as large. Watching what's downloaded on the pirate bay can probably nab hundreds of thousands of pirates, watching what's downloaded on irc would probably nab hundreds.

 

[Alienwho]

I don't see you being able to shut down IRC piracy unless you literally shut down every IRC server in existence. IRC sharing is directly peer 2 peer with the two users only using IRC servers to find each other. The IRC servers host no content themselves.

It's like sharing files with the people in your MSN Messenger list. You can't stop that unless you shut down the messenger servers.

 

[ericlp]

What about distribution via IRC networks? Can't the file-hosts be traced and shut-down ?

I asked this question on another forum and the folks there were "it can't be done for IRC !!!". I find that hard to believe.

-chronodekar

Are you serious?

Let me put this in prospective for you. Just a little.

Most of the piracy in the beginning was done though places like bearshare and napster remember those?

Basically you dialed up software from a BIG server.

Now people are using basically three types of services to get their files.

1) Bit-torrent At any one time on the massive of torrents out there... I've seen the count of pirates over a five million downloaders and seeders. These servers a Headless, meaning no server stores the information but the users as a whole become part of the server when they start to seed the files.

2) Most people hard core pirates use a service on news groups like RapidShare or MegaShare, Megaupload. These files are located on the servers, but the servers are supposedly located in another country with 'laxed' rules on sharing copyrighted material. These services you usually pay by the month to get your content.

3) FTP sites, IRC, etc...etc... the lesser know share pathways.

The bottom line is there are literally millions of people sharing illegal content and this has been going since the apple 2 days or anyone with a 300 baud modem. Why go after an IRC client when it's just a drop in the bucket? You will never nab the end users the best you can do is somehow try and shut down some of the bigger share sites and that's not easy since most do not share the files themselves.

 

[Childs]

If a user can search for something, so can someone who enforces illegal filesharing. The scale of IRC is relatively small, so going through the hassle of enforcement in a way costs more than shutting down a torrent site, which many more people use. If bittorrent went away today, more people would turn to IRC, rapidshare, newsgroups, etc. Then media companies would focus on them as well.

I know a delusional IRC user who says the same thing. The very nature of networking is you have to know your address, and what you are connecting to. Copyright enforcement can search just like anyone else, so they will know whats what. Proxies are just temporary detours. Blacklists are always an update behind. It all comes down to how much effort do the companies want to put into shutting something down. Servers in other countries harder to deal with, but a willing ISP could easily monitor traffic on a port range to a specific ip to target end users, or simply block it all together.

IRC is only safe as long as there is a easier alternative for end users.

 

[chronodekar]

Ah! It makes more sense when you mention scale.

So, the bottom line, is that while you CAN be traced and possibly shut down, the effort involved (with regards to IRC) is too much. Especially since, there are bigger fish out there (torrent, ... etc).

Yes, this makes more sense. Thanks for clearing that up guys!

-chronodekar

 

[Modelworks]

Here is the thing. ISP in the USA CANNOT monitor your traffics content without a warrant. It is protected like any other form of electronic communication. They can monitor a public site though like torrents or IRC and ID people that are participating, but even with that information it still isn't possible to prosecute. Just because you are connected to a torrent does not mean you are actively breaking the law. They have to prove that you willingly were trading in copyrighted work and that it was a pattern of abuse that clearly proves you were ignoring the law. Then there are the other legal defenses of the accuser having to prove it was you and your computer that was the one using the account. ISP try to scare people with words like "whatever happens on your account is your responsibility, but the law says otherwise". If I own a gun and it is registered to me I am not responsible for murder if someone takes it and kills someone. The worst they can do is say I was negligent in securing the gun, or in this case negligent in leaving something like my wifi password blank.

That is the reason you rarely see anyone prosecuted for violations. They have to prove it was you, that you have done it on multiple occasions showing a pattern of abuse, and the cost has to be worth all the lawyer and courts fees involved. The copyright treaty which is about to be passed was leaked last week and it is pretty much in line with what I said above. It basically is the 3 strike law. Where an ISP cannot terminate an account for a single complaint unless there is a ton of proof. But they can terminate an account if proof is provided that on 3 separate occasions someone pirated something after being warned not to. Media companies wanted it pirate 3 songs and each is a violation equaling all 3 strikes at one time, but that was tossed out. It has to be 3 separate occurrences where the offender was given the chance to respond each time. So the first time you would get a notice from the isp, have to click that you read and understand what it said and have the right to challenge it. , then the second one would be the same, third time if you failed appeal you would have your account canceled.

I think anyone who gets caught on 3 separate occasions and each time thumbed their nose at the warning should have their account canceled.

 

[imaheadcase]

That is exactly why most companies now are releasing free content and cost content online now. The idea being you get to taste or something, then if you like it you will buy it.

Thats the idea at least..

The other place that is impossible to shut down is the private websites that host torrents. You ever go to a website that looks just like a big picture on it, or a website that looks blank? Its actually a hosted site for a pirate site, you just don't know how to use it unless you are invited. The one I use has thousand users or so and more than that files, its been run for about 10 years now without any problems.

 

[Mir96TA]

I dunno about you all but I am all for piracy
I am tired off POS DRM.
I spend so much time upgrading software so I can this HD Dvd to that Blu RAY.
I think I done with being legit Customer
It is so easy to D/L and watch it where ever you like
Now with DRM I have to alway fiddle with *updates* usally one update breaks other updates.

 

[0roo0roo]

a week ago they went after news group search.
and news groups were supposed to be the last safe area....

 

[Rio Rebel]

I dunno about you all but I am all for piracy
I am tired off POS DRM.
I spend so much time upgrading software so I can this HD Dvd to that Blu RAY.
I think I done with being legit Customer
It is so easy to D/L and watch it where ever you like
Now with DRM I have to alway fiddle with *updates* usally one update breaks other updates.

I agree. And it's not just DRM. I'm tired of all these restrictive laws that annoy me. I like to get drunk, and it's inconvenient to get a cab, so I'm just going to start driving home. And if I hit somebody, I'm not stopping, because all these people get on my nerves walking so close to the street.

Next week, I'm going to start carrying a gun to work. I'm done with being a legit citizen. All this stuff pisses me off, so I'm just going to be a criminal.

 

[Tegeril]

Are you serious?

Let me put this in prospective for you. Just a little.

Most of the piracy in the beginning was done though places like bearshare and napster remember those?

Basically you dialed up software from a BIG server.

Now people are using basically three types of services to get their files.

1) Bit-torrent At any one time on the massive of torrents out there... I've seen the count of pirates over a five million downloaders and seeders. These servers a Headless, meaning no server stores the information but the users as a whole become part of the server when they start to seed the files.

2) Most people hard core pirates use a service on news groups like RapidShare or MegaShare, Megaupload. These files are located on the servers, but the servers are supposedly located in another country with 'laxed' rules on sharing copyrighted material. These services you usually pay by the month to get your content.

3) FTP sites, IRC, etc...etc... the lesser know share pathways.

The bottom line is there are literally millions of people sharing illegal content and this has been going since the apple 2 days or anyone with a 300 baud modem. Why go after an IRC client when it's just a drop in the bucket? You will never nab the end users the best you can do is somehow try and shut down some of the bigger share sites and that's not easy since most do not share the files themselves.

You've got terminology and explanation improperly paired in 2), but as everyone should know, the first rule of Usenet is don't talk about Usenet.

 

[ericlp]

You've got terminology and explanation improperly paired in 2), but as everyone should know, the first rule of Usenet is don't talk about Usenet.

So, why are you talking about it?

 

[sivart]

There is also the old-school pirates.

You know the ones that physically share media? (Wether is be an ISO image on an external drive physically moved to another location and copied or loaning someone the legit media and letting them copy it).

I remember having a copy of a baseball game back in the late 1980's on a 5.25" floppy disk. We had to manually type up some of the keycode to start the game because you it was made so you couldn't photocopy. Now you have to activate online...we've come a long way with little effect

Found a link with info:
http://www.squakenet.com/computer_games/8020/Pete-Rose-Pennant-Fever/download.html

 

[ericlp]

Yup. Can you image how much trouble you could get into for selling 2TB hard drives loaded??? It would probably take a few days just to dump the information. I always figured you'd see drives sold on ebay with some sort of codeword like 2TB Loaded!

Maybe someone needs to come out with (share a drive) --- No late fee's! hahaha