Video Editing Project - 3HRs SD Video

[bob4432]

it has been quite some time since i did some video work. need an estimate on hdd size needed for a full project like this.

will be using the adobe suite for editing and dvd creation.

my question is how much hdd space should be set aside for a 3hr project? also, i will be burning to dl dvd, so the quality should be pretty decent.

the actual editing will be easy - a few fades as the speaker did a good job and not much actual editing will be needed, it is just a matter of getting it all into the machine, and then all the previews that premiere writes to the hdd. the end result will be a ~3hrs though.

i would say ~4-6video layers (for some titles and such, to clean it up and make it look nice and tidy) and at most 2 audio layers. it was a single camera shoot - a sony vx1000.

i will also probably create a xvid/divx or h264 of the project too, so i know that is going to take some time. if i need to buy a hdd just for this project that is not a problem.

thanks in advance for your time and knowledge.

 

[craftech]

Originally posted by: bob4432
it has been quite some time since i did some video work. need an estimate on hdd size needed for a full project like this.

will be using the adobe suite for editing and dvd creation.

my question is how much hdd space should be set aside for a 3hr project? also, i will be burning to dl dvd, so the quality should be pretty decent.

the actual editing will be easy - a few fades as the speaker did a good job and not much actual editing will be needed, it is just a matter of getting it all into the machine, and then all the previews that premiere writes to the hdd. the end result will be a ~3hrs though.

i would say ~4-6video layers (for some titles and such, to clean it up and make it look nice and tidy) and at most 2 audio layers. it was a single camera shoot - a sony vx1000.

i will also probably create a xvid/divx or h264 of the project too, so i know that is going to take some time. if i need to buy a hdd just for this project that is not a problem.

thanks in advance for your time and knowledge.

DV takes up approximately 3.6MB per second. In other words 1GB for every 5 minutes of video. Multiply the result by 4 to get the approximate free space needed.
Comes out to about 12 GB for every 15 minutes of video.

Get rid of unnecessary running tasks when capturing. Disconnect from the internet and shut down virus scanners, firewalls, and even the mouse.

You will be working on a timeline doing your editing so the software will create proprietary files to work with the uncompressed avi footage. Then rendering will utilize temp files or preview files depending upon your preference settings. From there you will create an Mpeg 2 file for the authoring program and your H264, etc files if your software program has that capability.

For the DVD, if this is to be three hours DO NOT try to create a single project out of it. Split it into two projects at whatever the natural break point would work.
The visual quality will look worse than VHS if you try to compress three hours into a single layer DVD. Use two and forget dual layer. Compatibility is not ready for prime time yet on home burned Dual layer DVD. Even an hour and a half is pushing it on a single layer, but doable. Don't render first to DV and then use the DV avi file to render again to Mpeg 2. Render to Mpeg 2 straight from the timeline to avoid a second compression. Use a CBR at 6000 if you can fit it and two channel AC3 for the audio Reduce menu size or eliminate it in your authoring program so that you don't waste valuable space.

If your software doesn't have H264 render capability download the free "Super" and use that to create it from the avi file.

http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html

Your frame rate should match the aspect ratio of your source footage. For 4:3 DV your output resolution should be 4:3. For Low data rate use 400x300 for the video and 64/96Kbps audio data rate with a video data rate of 400Kbps +. For Medium data rate use 480x360, same audio rate, and video of 600Kbps +. For High data rate use 640x480, same audio rate and 800Kbps +. Keep your frame rate at native. In your case that would be 29.97. Don't reduce it to 15 fps no matter what anyone tells you. The results will be jerky even with medium motion.

You can probably do it all if you have around 160 GB hard drive SPACE free. That would mean a 250 GB drive if you have to go out and buy one. You might get away with a 160 GB drive. For video the speed of the storage drive is not as important as the speed of the drive the OS and the program are on. I don't use the OS/Program drive for video storage at all. SATA vs ATA - whichever works best on your system.

John

 

[gsellis]

Craftech, your math is incorrect. DV is 13GB per hour. This project would be about 40GB for the video, about another 3-10GB of rendered effects (depending on if you do color correction, time warp, etc.), and 9GB + 18GB for DVD creation and file.

3 hrs is about the max I would use for a DV -> DVD project on a Duel Layer DVD. It will have a 15 second scene break when it switches layers. 3hrs is a VBR peak at 8500, and running around 6000kbps with AC3 (Dolby Digital) audio. I reliably get 1.5 hours on single layer with lots of action.

 

[craftech]

Originally posted by: gsellis
Craftech, your math is incorrect. DV is 13GB per hour. This project would be about 40GB for the video, about another 3-10GB of rendered effects (depending on if you do color correction, time warp, etc.), and 9GB + 18GB for DVD creation and file.

3 hrs is about the max I would use for a DV -> DVD project on a Duel Layer DVD. It will have a 15 second scene break when it switches layers. 3hrs is a VBR peak at 8500, and running around 6000kbps with AC3 (Dolby Digital) audio. I reliably get 1.5 hours on single layer with lots of action.

The math is roughly the same. I said 1GB for every 5 minutes of video which comes out to about 12GB per hour and you said 13GB per hour. Same difference.

However, I added workspace calculations that work for me. Actual space required X 4. You are slightly underestimating the additional space required IMO. It is always better to allow for whetever may come up during editing. My estimate also allows for comparative renders, etc.

Don't forget, the OP asked for an estimate with possibly buying a new hard drive in mind. The end of my post and my resulting suggestions take my math estimates into account because that is what he asked for. Hard drive space suggestions.

And again. You will get better compatibility if you stick with CBR and avoid dual layer disks. Burn two single layer disks.

http://www.videohelp.com/BitrateCalc.zip



I would suggest disks with a media ID of TYG02 burned at 2X - 4X for best compatibility. That after hundreds of disks and no customer returns.

http://www.******/taiyo-yuden-silver-thermal-8x-dvd-r-media.html

Must be a block on this website for Supermediastore for some reason.

John

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: craftech

Originally posted by: gsellis
Craftech, your math is incorrect. DV is 13GB per hour. This project would be about 40GB for the video, about another 3-10GB of rendered effects (depending on if you do color correction, time warp, etc.), and 9GB + 18GB for DVD creation and file.

3 hrs is about the max I would use for a DV -> DVD project on a Duel Layer DVD. It will have a 15 second scene break when it switches layers. 3hrs is a VBR peak at 8500, and running around 6000kbps with AC3 (Dolby Digital) audio. I reliably get 1.5 hours on single layer with lots of action.

The math is roughly the same. I said 1GB for every 5 minutes of video which comes out to about 12GB per hour and you said 13GB per hour. Same difference.

Re-read it. You said 12GB per 15 minutes

I would suggest disks with a media ID of TYG02 burned at 2X - 4X for best compatibility. That after hundreds of disks and no customer returns.

Ah, none of your customers have Daewoo players I also use TY white hub printable +R with the booktype set to DVD-ROM. Best combo going without sending a DLT tape and $1k plus to get DVD-ROMs.

 

[craftech]

Re-read it. You said 12GB per 15 minutes
=========
I probably didn't state it clear enough and made it worse with my short "clarification" that didn't really "clarify" it at all. My fault.

Originally I said:

"DV takes up approximately 3.6MB per second. In other words 1GB for every 5 minutes of video. Multiply the result by 4 to get the approximate free space needed.
Comes out to about 12 GB for every 15 minutes of video."

1GB for every 5 minutes for straight video capture.

I multiply it by 4 to allow more than ample room to work through a project.

I ALLOW 12 GB for every 15 minutes of video.

My intent was to suggest that as a guideline for the Original Poster to use in calculating his needed hard drive space.

With that 4x figure of 12 GB per every 15 minutes the required space I WOULD RECOMMEND to be on the safe side per hour comes out to be 60 minutes divided by 15 minutes equals 4. Then take that 4 x 12 GB (I allow per 15 minutes) = 48 GB per hour to allow. In his case that would be at minimum (IMO) 144GB for the 3 Hr project. Since hard drives come in 120, 160, and 250GB and after formatting are considerably LESS than that, I recommended that if he needs to buy a hard drive he should get at least a 160GB drive or maybe even a 250GB drive.

John

 

[bob4432]

thanks for the info. a new hdd is in order as far as dl, i have some verbatims...is the compatability really that bad with regular dvd players? i was hoping to keep this all on 1 dvd so nobody loses the other portion....but if nobody can watch it on a dl it doesn't mean anything.

i currently have some fuji fime made in japan, which i believe are the TY discs, but might buy some i am sure are the TY - for this project the cost of another spindle of dvds is no big deal. as far as the data rate, basically the camera is on a tripod and the person is sitting on a couch, talking for nearly 3hrs. the only movement is what the person does sitting down, and it is a lecture, so no fast motion. i didn't shoot the video, but it is perfectly still. can i cut the data rate down because of this or should i still keep it @ 6000? audio is from the built in mic on the vx1000 and again, just a person talking, so can i cut back on that possibly? this will be played as educational material so the audio isn't dynamic at all - just a person's voice - no music.

there will be no color correction or anything like that for this project, basically just put it on dvd.

knowing this information, is there any brand dl dvd that may work better than verbatim? or are dl that bad for compatability?

thanks again in advance for your info

 

[craftech]

Bob,

Download DVD Identifier and post back the Media ID code for the media you have:

http://dvdidentifier.cdfreaks.com/

In terms of the Mpeg 2 bitrate, you should render the video and AC3 audio separately. The Mpeg 2 bitrate will be of higher visual quality with a higher bitrate. Some people like VBR, but VBR is only used when space is at a real premium otherwise CBR is much more consistent and compatible. The idea of the AC3 audio is to reduce the size of the audio file so that more of the disc is available for a higher bitrate of Mpeg 2 video. Use the bitrate calculator and set the parameters accordingly. 1 1/2 hours per side is pushing it.
If it looks like crap you can try DVD Shrink to reduce it with a large combined file size for the three hour video. It works well.

http://www.dvdshrink.org/

John

 

[bob4432]

john,

thanks for the info. i will do that here sometime tonight. is it the dl media you are interested in the media id? because that is MKM-001-00 according to imgburn, but will d/l the program you suggest in a bit.

i am at a crossroads - i want the most compatabilitiy but i want 1 disc....i don't want to make the whole thing and then it not work on their dvd player....uuuuggggghhhhh. maybe i will make a dl copy of an original movie i have like gladiator that takes up a lot of the dl disc and go check it out on their players...

i also have dvd-rb and the cce encoder for the best quality...wonder how that would work w/ 3hrs on 1 sl dvd? it is just a lot of time if it doesn't look good to re-do the entire project. is there somewhere i can d/l some mpeg2 files encoded at different speeds so i can see the difference?

thanks again for all the assistance,
bob

 

[craftech]

Bob,

MKM.....001 is about as compatible as it gets in dual layer media. Burn it at 2.4X

Edit it first, then test it on a bunch of players. Ripping a movie and testing it is not the same. You need to edit it and render it to Mpeg 2 using your own settings. A ripped movie test isn't the same.

Three hours on a single layer doesn't need to be tested. It will simply look like a bad VHS tape. It is too much to cram on there. It is more than Hollywood puts on a dual layer movie disc using hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment. If you must try it, I would suggest you make your dual layer video, then use DVD Shrink to reduce it to fit on a SL disk to test it. Much easier. In the end you will probably end up with a DL disk and probably MKM...001 You can always buy some more of them. If you think you might change your mind about two SL discs you can create two projects of 1 1/2 hours and edit them separately saved under separate names, then open the first one and copy and paste the second onto the timeline of the first, clean it up a little then save it under a new name for the three hour combined project.

John

 

[alaricljs]

If it's just some dude/gal on a couch talking why do video at all? Where's the value in having a DVD of that?

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: alaricljs
If it's just some dude/gal on a couch talking why do video at all? Where's the value in having a DVD of that?

You must be Bob's roommate

Bob, CCE is going to run you harder on your 3 hrs for a single layer. Split it. Because CCE does not come with a Dolby Digital (AC3) audio module, you are going to have PCM. 1.5 hrs of video with PCM is around 1GB of audio IIRC. Compare that to about 300k with AC3. That means an even greater compromise on your video quality. You could use Mpeg audio, but it has poor compatibility with US players (PAL players do better).

Remember this rule of editing, Cut Hard! And when you think you have, go over it again.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: alaricljs
If it's just some dude/gal on a couch talking why do video at all? Where's the value in having a DVD of that?

some of the people don't have a vcr anymore or a computer... but to be honest, i might suggest people go buy a vcr, how much are they anyway now? sadly this project would be fine of i just hooked up the camera to a vcr and did the crappy vcr dub.....

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: gsellis

Originally posted by: alaricljs
If it's just some dude/gal on a couch talking why do video at all? Where's the value in having a DVD of that?

You must be Bob's roommate

Bob, CCE is going to run you harder on your 3 hrs for a single layer. Split it. Because CCE does not come with a Dolby Digital (AC3) audio module, you are going to have PCM. 1.5 hrs of video with PCM is around 1GB of audio IIRC. Compare that to about 300k with AC3. That means an even greater compromise on your video quality. You could use Mpeg audio, but it has poor compatibility with US players (PAL players do better).

Remember this rule of editing, Cut Hard! And when you think you have, go over it again.

my wife sat through the lecture and i asked her where i could stuff out. her reply was "none" at the very most i could probably cut 5-10mins out where the speaker didn't stop for the tape change and just kept on going

 

[craftech]

some of the people don't have a vcr anymore or a computer... but to be honest, i might suggest people go buy a vcr, how much are they anyway now? sadly this project would be fine of i just hooked up the camera to a vcr and did the crappy vcr dub

==========
Lots of people have combination units now - DVD/VCR

But what are you going to do? Dub the three hour video on a T120 or T160 at EP or LP instead of SP?

It will look even worse. T180 might work, but they are hard to find. Now you are back to the obvious - TWO of something or other. What is wrong with two DVDs in a two disc DVD case?

John

 

[alaricljs]

Dude, if you're going to recommend a VCR do 1 better. Recommend a DVD player that can do MP3 playback (maybe even one that does MP3 off a data-DVD!) and forget the damned video