Video Cards Questions: So confused!

[Static EMP]

I had a GeForce 4 Ti4600 AGP. It broke so I had to buy a new video card. I bought the BFG GeForce FX 5500 OC 256 MB AGP. Unfortunately, I now realize that it was a bad choice, and I want to choose a new video card. I have been doing so much research but it is so confusing with all the specs and types of cards out there. If anyone can answer any of these questions for me, it would be greatly appreciated:

1. What do all the acronyms and words mean on a video card? What is the difference between XT, Pro, SE, LE, GT, Ultra, FX, Radeon, and all these other things I see at the end of video cards? What do these stand for? What's the difference?

2. I've seen comparisons of forums saying certain lower model number video cards are better than higher ones. Just recently I read in a forum that a Radeon 9500 Pro is better than a 9600 XT. I was under the impression that the higher model #s were newer and better, as was XT... I was also going over doom 3 benchmarks and saw something like:
geforce fx 5800 u 41.9 fps
geforce fx 5900 u 41.8 fps
That doesn't make any sense to me...


3. How come there are better cards with less RAM? The main reason I bought my BFG was cause it had 256 MB of RAM for a really good price; yet, I see a lot of 128 MB at higher costs. I'm so confused!

4. What is a good fps rating for any game? What fps should I want to see when I'm playing my games? I've seen benchmarks as low as 20-30, but then seen Quake 3 benchmarks at 150 (?! How do they get this high?)?

5. Finally, I am definitely going to sell my 5500, and want to get a new video card. Normally I'd go for top of the line, but I'll probably purchase a new computer next year, but I want a good one to hold me over for now that can run high quality graphics on a decent resolution for new games, such as Doom 3, Far Cry, and soon Half-Life 2. I don't need great frame rates at 1600 x 1200 on Ultra Quality settings just yet, but I do want High quality... what would be a good video card to go with?

Thank you!

 

[nick1985]

you left out your budget.

 

[Gamingphreek]

This will answer a lot of your questions.... though i haven't put some of the next gen stuff on it yet.

My guide

any gaps refer to this one:

Schadenfrohs Guide

-Kevin

 

[Sureshot324]

Get a 9800pro

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Sureshot324
Get a 9800pro

Ok look dont just tell him that, we dont even know what he is looking for and obviously he doesn't understand a lot about video cards so give the guy a chance to read the Video Card facts, or answer his questions first.

-Kevin

 

[gobucks]

nVidia breakdown:
for 5 and 6 series, i.e. 6800, 5900, etc.
_800 or _900 = High end
_600 or _700 = Midrange
_200 = Low end
Suffix rankings:
Ultra = highest
GT = next highest
no suffix = normal
LE or XT = lowest

ATI:
_800 = High end (9700 is also high end)
_500 or _600 or _700 = Midrange (not 9700)
_000 or _100 or _200 or _300 = low end
Suffixes:
XT = highest
Pro = next highest
no suffix = regular
LE, SE = low end.

Some pointers -
1. Stay away from the GeForce FX 5x00 models, except maybe the 5900XT, and even then, only if it's cheap (well under $200)
2. Stay away from anything with _600 or below in the name, with one exception (the 6600GT). All others are much slower than your TI 4600.
3. Don't always go for more memory. Games with more memory don't run any faster unless the games have larger textures than will fit in the video memory of the smaller card. This seldom happens with 128MB cards currently, although 256MB cards will perform better in the future when textures get larger (but still not THAT much). What matters much more is the Fill rate (core speed x # of pipelines), memory fill rate (memory speed x memory bus width), and the general efficiency of that series of card (i.e. Geforce 6800 series works at much lower clockspeeds than the X800, but is more efficient per MHz.)

In my opinion, here are the best cards at any given price point:
Sub-$150 - don't even look at these
Sub-$200 - a 9800 Pro or 5900XT, 9800 is better, so only 5900XT if it's way cheaper. 6600GT is way better than both of these, but won't be out on AGP for a month or so.
Sub-$300 - 6800 non-ultra - these may be found for around $260, MSRP $300, so if you wanna spend a bit more than $200, this baby is where you will see a big improvement over your 4600
Sub-$400 - 6800GT - This is probably the best value, twice the speed of the fastest card of 6 months ago, but it's also around $375. Avoind the X800 pro, it's just not good enough compared to the GT.
Sub-$500 - 6800 Ultra or X800XT - both cards are great, but expensive, and I don't think they are a big enough of an improvement over the 6800GT to warrant the extra $125 dollars.

 

[Gamingphreek]

AWESOME POST!!

-Kevin

 

[Boonesmi]

gobucks nice post

but one problem... under ATI the suffix LE isnt "low end" its "normal"

the 9600 and 9600le have the same specs, 128bit, same core speed, etc

 

[drifter106]

thanks for the post....its responsible and informative responses like gobucks that make coming to this site an everyday occurrance for me....

what is common knowledge for some is a revelation to others....... :thumbsup:

 

[LtPage1]

Originally posted by: drifter106
thanks for the post....its responsible and informative responses like gobucks that make coming to this site an everyday occurrance for me....

what is common knowledge for some is a revelation to others....... :thumbsup:

 

[carldon]

Good post gobucks. It's almost hard to see such a thread answered with anything but fanboys arguing.

CD.

 

[jyp]

What is the correct spec of 9800 Pro. I know some has 128bit or something... I think not all 9800 pro's are same. Can you specify what to look for in 9800 Pro? or 5900XT.
Thanks.

 

[Boonesmi]

Originally posted by: jyp
What is the correct spec of 9800 Pro. I know some has 128bit or something... I think not all 9800 pro's are same. Can you specify what to look for in 9800 Pro? or 5900XT.
Thanks.

this should answer your question
http://www.anandtech.com/video...oc.aspx?i=2195&p=2

 

[jyp]

What is Atlantis and Ultimate that goes with Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB. They seem to have 256bit.

 

[Zeav]

I had the GeForce 4, no real problems

I then got the ATI Radeon 9800 Pro... It ran better, gave me better FPS, nothing was really choppy with the ATI

 

[Vee]

GoBucks post is really good!

Not terribly much to add, but...

XT is sofar just a moderate cheapification, running simpler ram and only slightly lower clock. LE is a more massive downgrade.

Both nVidia and ATI seem to try to use, properties percieved to be tied with some previous designation, to make next generation low end cards more attractive.
This seem to have been what happened to you.

The FX5600 is definitely NOT the successor to the Ti4600!

The correct successions are IMO, more like this:

Ti4200 -> FX5900XT -> 6800GT
Ti4600 -> FX5900 -> 6800ultra
Ti4800 -> FX5950 -> 6800UX

Then there's also some "6800" -cards, that doesn't have the high end chipset: 6800 and 6800LE
I'll stop here, but you get the picture. First the ?200 and ?600 numbers are demoted to lower cards. Then as people have learned to identify only the highest number with the desirable cards, this highest number too, is used with lower chip sets. Now we have to use the suffix to seperate high and mid range.
My guess is that next generation from nVidia will feature some "Ultra" suffix for all high end chipset, and "GT" for mid range. :roll:

Some other comments: I really feel 5500 and maybe also 5600 needs to be considered LOW end, rather than medium. In fact, the 5500 is a kind of modernisation of the 5200 chipset. There have been one previously also, without changing designation. Similarily 5700 is a modernisation to 5600, and 5900 an update of 5800.

(Edit: Point to note. The performance/value card to get in the previous generation, was not some FX5900, but rather the R9800pro from ATI.)

On ATI, it is important to be informed of the existance of 'false' chipsets. There is one '128-bit' interface "R9800pro", for instance. And the various 'SE' cards are utter crap too.

Things that will require more than 128MB memory:
Using AA at 1600X1200 for fairly recent games will cause 128MB cards to perform markedly lower than 256MB cards.
Normally, you should have no problems with 128MB while staying at 1024X768.
But a game like 'Far Cry' use so many and such detailed textures, that you will see an impact at already 1280X1024. That is maybe also what the future has in store. Also, as before, AA increase memory demands.

I don't quite understand why so many low and mid range cards have 256MB memory. It might be because, due to the low clocks the additional memory doesn't really make them more expensive, and the 256MB then is simply a marketing gimmick.

 

[gobucks]

Thanks, guys. Anyways, a few minor corrections/comments:

1. I think some companies use LE to denote lower performance on ATI products. Some 128-bit 9800 Pros are called LE models, I believe. I forget which company(s) did this, but someone did, i think. Anyways, as far as 9800 Pros are concerned, definitely get the 256-bit version, it's a great deal faster than the 128-bit version, for not a big price difference.

2. As far as card sucessions go, It's a bit more like:
TI4200 -> FX5900XT -> 6800
TI4400 -> FX5900 -> 6800GT
TI4600 -> FX5900/5950 Ultra -> 6800 Ultra

BUT, prices have shifted up $100 for each segment, so if you are looking for the same price range, then it is:
TI4200 -> FX5900XT -> 6600GT
TI4400 -> FX5900 -> 6800
TI4600 -> FX5900 Ultra -> 6800GT.

 

[Vee]

Originally posted by: gobucks
Thanks, guys. Anyways, a few minor corrections/comments:

1. I think some companies use LE to denote lower performance on ATI products. Some 128-bit 9800 Pros are called LE models, I believe. I forget which company(s) did this, but someone did, i think. Anyways, as far as 9800 Pros are concerned, definitely get the 256-bit version, it's a great deal faster than the 128-bit version, for not a big price difference.

2. As far as card sucessions go, It's a bit more like:
TI4200 -> FX5900XT -> 6800
TI4400 -> FX5900 -> 6800GT
TI4600 -> FX5900/5950 Ultra -> 6800 Ultra

BUT, prices have shifted up $100 for each segment, so if you are looking for the same price range, then it is:
TI4200 -> FX5900XT -> 6600GT
TI4400 -> FX5900 -> 6800
TI4600 -> FX5900 Ultra -> 6800GT.

You're missing the point with my succession comparision. It's not about the current price, it's about the technology applied, and relative performance.
I stand by my succession order. But I can modify it to this:

Ti4200 -> FX5900XT -> 6800GT
Ti4400/4600 -> FX5900/5950 -> 6800ultra
Ti4800 -> FX5950ultra -> 6800UX


6600 and 6800 are clearly not successors to Ti4200 and FX5900XT, since they don't use the top echelon chipset. My cards are all built on the top chipset, with differences in clockrates and memory performance. Thus the, by slightly lower clock and cheaper ram, cheapified, best value succession order is 4200->5900XT->6800GT. And the rare, poor value, hotrod top cards are 4800->5950ultra->6800UX.

 

[uOpt]

My advice is to stay away from anything that is the lowest end in a given series. Those are usually much slower than the highend ones in the older series.

Example: GeForce 5200 and 5500 are worse than 4400 and 4600. Low-end 6600 is probably worse than high-end 5x00 for many games (not half-life 2).

The thing is that you generally want the most hardware (pipiles, shaders) you can get, that is more important than clockspeed. But the low-end cards leave out most of the hardware units, then you can clock all you want and it won't go fast.

A GeForce 5200 might be DirectX9, and a 4600 is not, but since the 5200 is not fast enough to drive any DX9 game well it doesn't buy you anything.

So, my recommendation, always get a medium-high or high-end card out of a given series, and it you can't affort the current series, go back to the previous series, do not go to the junk in the current series. That is unless you precisely know that you main game will be one which is know to run fast on the newer one, there are some such cases.

 

[Spikesoldier]

my advice:

if a ti4600 is NOT powerful enough for you right now, get either

1. ati radeon 9800 pro 128mb - ~$150

2. nvidia geforce FX 6800 - ~$250-300

3. nvidia geforce FX 6800GT - ~$350-400

4. nvidia geforce FX 6800ULTRA or ati X800XT - ~$500

the choice is up to you, and how much money you want to spend. all 5 cards are great performers, you get what you pay for.

 

[Static EMP]

Where can you find an ATI Radeon 9800 128 MB for only $150?


Also, I noticed that between the 5900 and the 9800, the 5900 has a much faster clock speed. How come the two cards are so comparable then?