Video card screw up, need some options

[Spike]

Ok, my brother has been bugging me to help him put together a gaming machine for a long time. About 4 months ago I had him jump on a good deal for a Dell E520 with a C2D E6300 in it. The thought was we could upgrade the GPU later. That time rolled around and we bought a cooler master 500 watt, eVGA 8800GTS 320mb oc, and another gb of ram. Well, wouldn't you know it, but the video card does not fit. I know, it's a long card so I checked the length before hand to make sure and that is no issue. The problem is the E520 is a BTX setup and is backwards, the mobo is on the otherside of the case. This means that when you try to install the 8800 the dual slot cooler is facing up instead of hanging down and runs into the CPU cooler, no way that we saw of modding it easily.

So I want to know what my options are. From what I can tell, here they are as I see them.

Option 1: return the 8800GTS for the best single slot GPU out there, probably a 7950GT.
Option 2: buy another C2D motherboard and CPU cooler, rip apart an old case, transfer everything over.
Option 3: Mod the case to fit the 8800GTS (seems very hard to do)
Option 4: Find some sort of single slot/opposite side cooler for the GPU. The thermalright HR-03 goes on the other side but is incompatible wth the 8800 series. There is the Thermaltake Tidewater but I can't find if thats compatible or not.

Does anyone have any other ideas or more options that I am missing? I would really love to help him out with this and feel bad for screwing him with a poor initial system choice.

 

[tuteja1986]

Battlefield 2 1600x1200x32 4xAA 8xAF
X1900XT 256MB : 80.1
7900GTO : 77.3
X1950PRO : 64.2
7900GT : 59.7

Halflife 2 Lost Coast 1600x1200x32 4xAA 8xAF
X1900XT 256MB : 57.2
7900GTO : 51.9
X1950PRO : 43.5
7900GT : 40.9

Fear 1600x1200 0xAA 8xAF
X1900XT 256MB : 47
7900GTO : 41
X1950PRO : 35
7900GT : 34

Quake 4 1600x1200x32 4xAA 8xAF
X1900XT 256MB : 55.1
7900GTO : 55.5
X1950PRO : 40.1
7900GT : 45.4

Call of Duty 2 1600x1200 4xAA 8xAF
X1900XT 256MB : 40.5
7900GTO : 34.9
X1950PRO : 32
7900GT : 30.7

Farcry HDR 1600x1200 0xAA 8xAF
X1900XT 256MB : 54.1
7900GTO : 50
X1950PRO : 44.1
7900GT : 39.5

Oblivion HDR Mountain Area 1600x1200 0xAA 8xAF
X1900XT 256MB : 39.1
7900GTO : 32.5
X1950PRO : 31.3
7900GT : 24.1

Oblivion HDR Foliage Area 1600x1200 0xAA 8xAF
X1900XT 256MB : 26.8
7900GTO : 16.9
X1950PRO : 21.3
7900GT : 12


http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_radeon_x1950_pro/


X1900XT = 256MB , 625Mhz , 1450Mhz , 16(48 Pixel shader processor)
X1950XT = 256MB , 625Mhz , 1800Mhz , 16(48 Pixel shader processor)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102067

In conclusion the X1900XT 256MB beats all and X1950XT beats up X1900XT. Winner is X1950XT

Or buy :
Gigabyte 965 DS3 rev 3 and Tinuq Tower 120. Overclock the cpu to 3.6Ghz ; )

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_8800_preview/
Half life 2 Lost Coast HDR 1920x1200x32 4xAA 16xAF

8800GTX : 98.7
8800GTS : 76.1
X1950XTX : 53.7
X1900XT : 49.5

Dark Messiah HDR 1920x1200x32 4xAA 16xAF

8800GTX : 101
8800GTS : 72
X1950XTX : 49.4
X1900XT : 45.6

BF2142 1920x1200x32 4xAA 16xAF

8800GTX : 77
8800GTS : 51.1
X1950XTX : 46.3
X1900XT : 41.4

Quake 4 Ultra Quality 1920x1200x32 4xAA 16xAF

8800GTX : 83.6
8800GTS : 63.7
X1950XTX : 48.7
X1900XT : 43.2

Lock On: Mordern Air Combat 1920x1200x32 4xAA 16xAF

8800GTX : 83.3
8800GTS : 68.7
X1950XTX : 48.7
X1900XT : 42.9

Pacific Fighter 1920x1200x32 4xAA 16xAF

8800GTX : 55.6
8800GTS : 51.9
X1950XTX : 42.8
X1900XT : 39.5

FEAR 1920x1200x32 4xAA 16xAF

8800GTX : 69
8800GTS : 50
X1950XTX : 49
X1900XT : 44

Oblivion Mountains HDR 1920x1200x32 0xAA 8xAF

8800GTX : 101
8800GTS : 79.8
X1950XTX : 45.4
X1900XT : 42.1

Oblivion Foliage Area HDR 1920x1200x32 0xAA 8xAF

8800GTX : 52.7
8800GTS : 38.6
X1950XTX : 26.7
X1900XT : 24.5

Oblivion HDR Mountain Area 1920x1200x32 4xAA 8xAF

8800GTX : 70.5
8800GTS : 46.5
X1950XTX : 34
X1900XT : 29.8

Oblivion HDR Foliage Area HDR 1920x1200x32 4xAA 8xAF

8800GTX : 38.3
8800GTS : 26.5
X1950XTX : 23
X1900XT : 20.6

Call of duty 2 1920x1200x32 4xAA 16xAF

8800GTX : 55.6
8800GTS : 41.3
X1950XTX : 41.1
X1900XT : 35.3

Farcry HDR 1920x1200x32 4xAA 16xAF

8800GTX : 88.1
8800GTS : 63
X1950XTX : 48.7
X1900XT : 43.1

Company of Heroes 1920x1200x32 4xAA 16xAF

8800GTX : 70.8
8800GTS : 57
X1950XTX : 36.4
X1900XT : 33.3


Modding the case is not a good idea

I hope this help : )

 

[Spike]

Thanks for the details. The only problem is that the X1950xt is still a dual slot cooler so I am left with the same problem as before

 

[tuteja1986]

well buddy its time for you buy :
best beastly overclocking mobo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128012
best air cooler ever invented It can overclock E6600 to 3.9Ghz : )
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835154001
a good case to put next to your tv or get a cheaper case ; )
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811163065

 

[hans007]

i think the x1950pro is single slot. you could try that.

 

[bamacre]

First off, what are the spec's of that "cooler master 500 watt" power supply? Sure it's enough to run an 8800 GTS?

The original PSU is easily enough to run a 7950 GT or even an X1950 Pro card. I know from experience.

There is no way you're going to get the 8800 GTS card in there. And it really has nothing to do with BTX, as the Dell XPS 410, also BTX, would handle the 8800 GTS easily, and with the original PSU. It's the case design of the E520 (and E521 as well).

IF the 500w PSU you have is capable of running the 8800 GTS card, and you really want to keep it, you'll need a new case, motherboard, and HSF.

Otherwise, sell off the 8800 GTS and wait for the 8600 series of cards, those should all be single-slot cards. Or see what ATI has when that time comes around.

 

[Spike]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
well buddy its time for you buy :
best beastly overclocking mobo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128012
best air cooler ever invented It can overclock E6600 to 3.9Ghz : )
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835154001
a good case to put next to your tv or get a cheaper case ; )
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811163065

I'm not sure your actually reading this thread. To summarize, the 8800gts will not fit in the E520 case, what can I do to either get it to fit or what are my options for a single slot video solution? Buying a whole additonal setup is not really an option, the only thing close would be to get a cheap cpu cooler and cheap mobo and trasnplant the entire system to and old case that is sitting around.

Originally posted by: hans007
i think the x1950pro is single slot. you could try that.

It is single slot, the only issue is the lower performance. Do you know if there are any other single slotters that are faster?

 

[Spike]

Originally posted by: bamacre
First off, what are the spec's of that "cooler master 500 watt" power supply? Sure it's enough to run an 8800 GTS?

The original PSU is easily enough to run a 7950 GT or even an X1950 Pro card. I know from experience.

There is no way you're going to get the 8800 GTS card in there. And it really has nothing to do with BTX, as the Dell XPS 410, also BTX, would handle the 8800 GTS easily, and with the original PSU. It's the case design of the E520 (and E521 as well).

IF the 500w PSU you have is capable of running the 8800 GTS card, and you really want to keep it, you'll need a new case, motherboard, and HSF.

Otherwise, sell off the 8800 GTS and wait for the 8600 series of cards, those should all be single-slot cards. Or see what ATI has when that time comes around.

Cooler Master 500w
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817171018

500 w, dual 12 v, 12v1 16a, 12v2 16a. From all I read this should be more than enough and the cooler masters get decent marks for reliability. I can't believe the original 305w psu is enough to run those single slot cards, I was reading it's rails were anemic and that the unit had a tendancy to blow when put under any kind of stress.


What your saying confirms basically what I have read so far, that the card will not fit period so a new mobo/hsf is needed or return the card. I have several old cases that will work just fine, especially for a cpu that produces so little heat so those won't need to be bought. Taking the card back (we are well within the return time) and getting a X1950 pro or 7950gt (BTW, which is faster?) is certainly an option, I am just concerned that they will have the power my brother is looking for. He does not exactly upgrade all that often and really wants to play UT 2007 when it comes out.

 

[Spike]

double post, crap

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Spike

Originally posted by: bamacre
First off, what are the spec's of that "cooler master 500 watt" power supply? Sure it's enough to run an 8800 GTS?

The original PSU is easily enough to run a 7950 GT or even an X1950 Pro card. I know from experience.

There is no way you're going to get the 8800 GTS card in there. And it really has nothing to do with BTX, as the Dell XPS 410, also BTX, would handle the 8800 GTS easily, and with the original PSU. It's the case design of the E520 (and E521 as well).

IF the 500w PSU you have is capable of running the 8800 GTS card, and you really want to keep it, you'll need a new case, motherboard, and HSF.

Otherwise, sell off the 8800 GTS and wait for the 8600 series of cards, those should all be single-slot cards. Or see what ATI has when that time comes around.

Cooler Master 500w
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817171018

500 w, dual 12 v, 12v1 16a, 12v2 16a. From all I read this should be more than enough and the cooler masters get decent marks for reliability. I can't believe the original 305w psu is enough to run those single slot cards, I was reading it's rails were anemic and that the unit had a tendancy to blow when put under any kind of stress.


What your saying confirms basically what I have read so far, that the card will not fit period so a new mobo/hsf is needed or return the card. I have several old cases that will work just fine, especially for a cpu that produces so little heat so those won't need to be bought. Taking the card back (we are well within the return time) and getting a X1950 pro or 7950gt (BTW, which is faster?) is certainly an option, I am just concerned that they will have the power my brother is looking for. He does not exactly upgrade all that often and really wants to play UT 2007 when it comes out.

Do you still have the original PSU that came with the E520? Go back and look at it's spec's.

I am surprised that the 500W CM you put in is not causing any problems, very interesting. Sometimes, after-market PSU's can act weird in Dell systems.

The E520/E521 models are certainly capable of mid-range gaming, but for higher-end gaming, the XPS 410 is better designed. Like I said, if you really want to run that 8800 GTS, just get a new case and motherboard. The only potential problem with that is Windows, you can't use their OEM install CD since you switched out motherboards. But you can probably work around that.

 

[BernardP]

The most logical course of action is Option 1, then search carefully for the most powerful card that will fit the mobo/case. I agree it would be a good idea to wait a few months for the next-gen NVidia (or even ATI) midrange cards.

Option 2 amounts to near-destruction of what was once a Dell.

Option 3 and 4 remind me of one of the laws of investing: Don't send good money after bad money.

 

[Spike]

Originally posted by: bamacre
Do you still have the original PSU that came with the E520? Go back and look at it's spec's.

I am surprised that the 500W CM you put in is not causing any problems, very interesting. Sometimes, after-market PSU's can act weird in Dell systems.

The E520/E521 models are certainly capable of mid-range gaming, but for higher-end gaming, the XPS 410 is better designed. Like I said, if you really want to run that 8800 GTS, just get a new case and motherboard. The only potential problem with that is Windows, you can't use their OEM install CD since you switched out motherboards. But you can probably work around that.

The original PSU is still there, they have had the new one installed for the last day no issues at all. I know the Dell PSU was decent but my understanding was the rails sucked. I guess I forgot to say I'm not actually with my brother, he is on the other side of the state so I am trying to do tech support long range.

I realize now we should have gotten a different dell model, no doubt about that. Right now we are looking at getting a new case and mobo. Fry's has the P180 for $79 AR and we might just pu a cpu/mobo combo and basically build a new computer.

Originally posted by: BernardP
The most logical course of action is Option 1, then search carefully for the most powerful card that will fit the mobo/case. I agree it would be a good idea to wait a few months for the next-gen NVidia (or even ATI) midrange cards.

Option 2 amounts to near-destruction of what was once a Dell.

Option 3 and 4 remind me of one of the laws of investing: Don't send good money after bad money.

Unfortunatly my brother does not want to downgrade the card to a slower single slot now that he has seen some benchmarks. I completly agree with the laws of investing thing, but my father might buy the Dell so he can recoop the money and buy the parts he needs to do it right. And he has an extra copy of XP sitting around I got at a launch event so we are covered there.

Thanks for the help guys, I feel pretty dumb getting a bad system when we KNEW we were going to get a dual slot card in the future...

 

[Sniper82]

You could try getting something like this:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article285-page2.html

Mount it with the flat(fan mount) side down toward the card then rig up the fan on the side it shouldn't be on. Thats probably the only chance you got. Of course the fan would blow warm air onto the video cards intake fan but it shouldn't make it run much hotter.

If you need to you could probably bend some of the fins down if you need just a bit more room. Heck it might fit alright mounted the right way with the fan facing the top of the case. Hard to say without pics of the inside of the case.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Spike

Originally posted by: bamacre
Do you still have the original PSU that came with the E520? Go back and look at it's spec's.

I am surprised that the 500W CM you put in is not causing any problems, very interesting. Sometimes, after-market PSU's can act weird in Dell systems.

The E520/E521 models are certainly capable of mid-range gaming, but for higher-end gaming, the XPS 410 is better designed. Like I said, if you really want to run that 8800 GTS, just get a new case and motherboard. The only potential problem with that is Windows, you can't use their OEM install CD since you switched out motherboards. But you can probably work around that.

The original PSU is still there, they have had the new one installed for the last day no issues at all. I know the Dell PSU was decent but my understanding was the rails sucked.

Nope, did 18A on each 12V rails. I've thoroughly tested both the X1950 Pro and 7950 GT with the psu, and they run great. Of course the 8800 GTS would have been too much for it.

 

[Spike]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Spike

Originally posted by: bamacre
Do you still have the original PSU that came with the E520? Go back and look at it's spec's.

I am surprised that the 500W CM you put in is not causing any problems, very interesting. Sometimes, after-market PSU's can act weird in Dell systems.

The E520/E521 models are certainly capable of mid-range gaming, but for higher-end gaming, the XPS 410 is better designed. Like I said, if you really want to run that 8800 GTS, just get a new case and motherboard. The only potential problem with that is Windows, you can't use their OEM install CD since you switched out motherboards. But you can probably work around that.

The original PSU is still there, they have had the new one installed for the last day no issues at all. I know the Dell PSU was decent but my understanding was the rails sucked.

Nope, did 18A on each 12V rails. I've thoroughly tested both the X1950 Pro and 7950 GT with the psu, and they run great. Of course the 8800 GTS would have been too much for it.

So, in that case, the CM 500 watt has less amp per rail but more overall "power". The 800 reccomendations seem to state ~26 total amps on the 12v lines so why would the dell fail but the CM be possible powering the 8800?

 

[tuteja1986]

fastest single slot i think would be 7950GT.

 

[Skotty]

Don't know how much room you have to work with, but have you considered looking around to see if there is a CPU cooler that would give you the extra room you need to fit in the 8800 GTS?

 

[Spike]

Originally posted by: Skotty
Don't know how much room you have to work with, but have you considered looking around to see if there is a CPU cooler that would give you the extra room you need to fit in the 8800 GTS?

Again, I am doing this by proxy so I have not actually seen the problem first hand but my understanding is the CPU slot is RIGHT above the PCIe slot. My brother tells me even if the CPU was taken care of there are caps in the way of the double cooler so I don't think that is an option.

We just ended up ordering a new case (centurion), mobo (Asrock crossfire, on the C2D reccomended list in mobo forums) and CPU (E6300) so basically we are going to build a new machine. We will take components out of his AXP setup (HDD, DVD) and move those over to this new build and leave the Dell alone.

Thanks for all the help. I feel like a freaking tool picking one of the only Dell setups that this does not work in... freaking bad luck, lack or research, or more likely both. Thanks again

 

[40sTheme]

Dell E series cannot run dual slot cooling solutions.

 

[Spike]

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
Dell E series cannot run dual slot cooling solutions.

Thanks for that. I'm glad you read the whole thread and posted that information

 

[thestain]

I have an extra Thermalright HR-03, not sure if it will work, but.. take a look at Thermalright site.. cooler might work for you. while no room on top.. how much room do you have below card?

Mike

 

[40sTheme]

Originally posted by: Spike

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
Dell E series cannot run dual slot cooling solutions.

Thanks for that. I'm glad you read the whole thread and posted that information

lol, sorry man, I was just posting straight out of personal experience. Anyways, I'll try to help now, I guess.
Can't you take the PCI bracket off of the 8 series? If you can (I think people have done it to get them to run cooler and it's fine to do), then you can put it in that Dell.

 

[Ruptga]

Originally posted by: hans007
i think the x1950pro is single slot. you could try that.

that it is

 

[Spike]

Originally posted by: 40sTheme

Originally posted by: Spike

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
Dell E series cannot run dual slot cooling solutions.

Thanks for that. I'm glad you read the whole thread and posted that information

lol, sorry man, I was just posting straight out of personal experience. Anyways, I'll try to help now, I guess.
Can't you take the PCI bracket off of the 8 series? If you can (I think people have done it to get them to run cooler and it's fine to do), then you can put it in that Dell.

Yah, I was just kidding with you. I answer threads all the time by reading the first post and then responding. It usually gets me some fun responses...

I'm not sure about removing the PCI bracket, seems like something scary to do to such an expensive product, plus it will void even the most liberal eVGA warranty.

Originally posted by: thestain
I have an extra Thermalright HR-03, not sure if it will work, but.. take a look at Thermalright site.. cooler might work for you. while no room on top.. how much room do you have below card?

Mike

I looked at this and the only issue I could think of was the metal bracket at the end. You can unscrew the fan assembly but you would have to cut the metal at the end voiding your warranty. Either way, the HR-03 does not actually fit the 8800 series but the new HR-03 Plus supposedly does. There is plenty of room on bottom if only we could install the card without that bracket.

Thanks fro the replies guys. Like I said, we pretty much gave up and ordered a new case, mobo, and C2D to install the 8800GTS in. I paid for the case out of pittance for my stupidity in reccomending the one freaking case that the card would not work in. You live you learn I guess...