video card (probably) squeal in NWN main menu and ONLY there

[taltamir]

I get a weird squeal from what is probably my GPU in the NWN1 main menu and ONLY there, navigating to different sub menus alters the tone of the squeal, starting a game or alt tabbing makes it go away.
I have never encountered it anywhere else (nowhere else in that game, and never in any other game).

It has been doing that for literally years. (I think it started at a certain patch of the game). IIRC I have reformatted, upgraded the OS, and replaced the mobo, cpu, and ram over the years without causing it to go away. (I haven't been replacing them to get rid of it, i just upgraded over time)... one thing I didn't replace is my video card, a GTX260 SC.

Any clue as to why it only does that in that specific circumstances?

 

[Idontcare]

Seems to be a common topic lately...am I mistaken in having the impression this appears to be more prevalent with Nvidia GPU's? There may be a specific component that they all share which is at play here.

 

[taltamir]

maybe, but why would it only happen in nwn?
and why only in main menu?
and why does the tone change depending on which specific submenu I am at?

Its more of a curiosity thing then a problem for me... I am not concerned about preventing the squeal, I am concerned with solving the mystery of how and why it works in such an odd and specific manner.
I cannot think of any plausible explanation of how it would happen in such a specific manner. (had it squealed in all games it would have made perfect sense and the explanation would be easy)

 

[betasub]

Resonance based on a specfic frequency (e.g. frames per second)? Have you experienced this with FRAPS running?

 

[taltamir]

I realized, NWN is an OpenGL game, maybe it has something to do with it...

as for fraps.
Main menu was 1300fps, new game menu was 800... then I alt tabbed out and back in again and main menu went to 3045 fps, new game to 17XX (forgot the values of X) and load game menu to 8XX.
it seems fairly stable on a value (that is, it fluctuates +/- 1 FPS give or take).

it seems every time i run it, the noise and the FPS it stabilizes about is different, The noises are distinct, with going back and force between menus I will recognize the noise in each to be the same as it was beforE (and the FPS also matches what it was before as long as I navigate back and forth... but alt tabbing or quitting and running again gets me a different FPS value).

I went to control panel and altered the nwn game specific profile such that vsync is set to "force on". It now remains stable at 60FPS and no longer makes the sound... BTW, there is an in game option for vsync, but if enabled in game it will only apply to being "in game" so to speak, not to the main menu.

submitted a bug report to nvidia as issue # "101214-000005". Explaining the situation and suggesting vsync be set to force on in nwn1

Now... can someone explain why rendering at an FPS of 800 to 3000 causes capacitor squeal when NO other game does?

 

[lsv]

Resonance based on a specfic frequency (e.g. frames per second)? Have you experienced this with FRAPS running?

This.

I realized, NWN is an OpenGL game, maybe it has something to do with it...

as for fraps.
Main menu was 1300fps, new game menu was 800... then I alt tabbed out and back in again and main menu went to 3045 fps, new game to 17XX (forgot the values of X) and load game menu to 8XX.
it seems fairly stable on a value (that is, it fluctuates +/- 1 FPS give or take).

it seems every time i run it, the noise and the FPS it stabilizes about is different, The noises are distinct, with going back and force between menus I will recognize the noise in each to be the same as it was beforE (and the FPS also matches what it was before as long as I navigate back and forth... but alt tabbing or quitting and running again gets me a different FPS value).

I went to control panel and altered the nwn game specific profile such that vsync is set to "force on". It now remains stable at 60FPS and no longer makes the sound... BTW, there is an in game option for vsync, but if enabled in game it will only apply to being "in game" so to speak, not to the main menu.

submitted a bug report to nvidia as issue # "101214-000005". Explaining the situation and suggesting vsync be set to force on in nwn1

Now... can someone explain why rendering at an FPS of 800 to 3000 causes capacitor squeal when NO other game does?

Turn on V-sync and cap yourself at 60hz/fps. Whine will go away. Your FPS is going so high that the capacitors are now making audible noises at the same frequency. Down at 60-100fps you don't hear it because they're not large enough to produce sound waves at such low frequencies, but once you get to around 1khz a small metal capacitor can easily make noise.

 

[bryanW1995]

ha, interesting, mine does that in nwn2 as well. I'll apply the fix! I never really thought about it, but it was annoying enough that I remember it clearly now that you mention it.

@idk, I don't remember if my 4850 did it or not. maybe somebody with an amd gpu can confirm?

 

[taltamir]

Turn on V-sync and cap yourself at 60hz/fps. Whine will go away. Your FPS is going so high that the capacitors are now making audible noises at the same frequency. Down at 60-100fps you don't hear it because they're not large enough to produce sound waves at such low frequencies, but once you get to around 1khz a small metal capacitor can easily make noise.

this doesn't seem right to me. capacitors don't store frames, and his guess was resonance frequency (a very SPECIFIC frequency where constructive interference occurs causing things to shatter) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonance_frequency

however, it seems like the exact FPS doesn't matter, as long as it is very large. and it doesn't explode... both of which prove it isn't resonance.

 

[Operandi]

It doesn’t have anything to do with frequency equaling FPS but he has it right. The GPU is still running and 3D and still trying to render as fast as it can. The issue the menu is so simple the only thing that gets worked is the shaders.

There were reports earlier this summer about certain cards (with inadequate cooling) getting fried when users let SCII sit in the menus.

 

[taltamir]

It doesn’t have anything to do with frequency equaling FPS but he has it right. The GPU is still running and 3D and still trying to render as fast as it can. The issue the menu is so simple the only thing that gets worked is the shaders.

There were reports earlier this summer about certain cards (with inadequate cooling) getting fried when users let SCII sit in the menus.

i was indeed guessing that a specific component is being worked harder then others, and than it normally would. But I wouldn't have expected it to be the shaders. What makes you think its the shaders, specifically, being stressed and not another component? And if it is the shaders, why is it making the sound? AFAIK the shaders are a portion of the die, I doubt its the die itself that is making the sound. I know capacitors can do it, but what about memory chips? the die? mosfets? chokes?...

Also, interesting info about SC2 menu. I don't know why doesn't everyone include frame limiting on their main menu...

 

[Operandi]

Well I guess I don't know its the shaders but if all the card is doing is just drawing pixels for the menus what other part would get worked?

As far as where exactly the sound is coming from I'm not sure but it wouldn't be the capacitors as the only sound they make is popping when the fail. My guess would be the chokes but its only a guess.

Also my GTS 450 makes a similar noise under Furmark and GPU Folding@Home, not sure about other games yet as the speakers are always going.

And Blizzard did end up putting a frame rate limiter into SCII.

 

[Rifter]

This.



Turn on V-sync and cap yourself at 60hz/fps. Whine will go away. Your FPS is going so high that the capacitors are now making audible noises at the same frequency. Down at 60-100fps you don't hear it because they're not large enough to produce sound waves at such low frequencies, but once you get to around 1khz a small metal capacitor can easily make noise.

This helped with my 4890

It had coil whine which i think is what you are describing. In older games it was sometimes impossible to set Vsync within the game so i forced it from the drivers when playing those games.

My 4890 would make the noise above 300FPS give or take, so at alot of menu's but not all, was maybe in only 15% of the 100 games i have installed. some could be going at 3000 FPS and it would be silent it just depended on the game. It drove me insane till i RMA'ed it.

 

[Patrick Wolf]

I've experienced this in many games, old and newer. Reason is very high FPS. Stupid developers should cap the framerate of menus. Vsync caps your framerate, noise goes away. All good. :thumbsup:

 

[gamerguy2]

Did anyone think the GPU fan might be faulty or the cooler might not be conected properly? I played NWN and my system would "rev" up on start more than other games. But, that might mean the fan is revving up fast as well.

 

[Patrick Wolf]

Did anyone think the GPU fan might be faulty or the cooler might not be conected properly? I played NWN and my system would "rev" up on start more than other games. But, that might mean the fan is revving up fast as well.

Not every system produces the noise, but the fan is definietly not the cause. I have an aftermarket fan/heatsink on my card with non-variable fans. The fans aren't even connected to the card. And this GTX 275 isn't the only card I've had make the noise.

 

[BFG10K]

Did anyone think the GPU fan might be faulty or the cooler might not be conected properly?

It’s nothing to do with the fan; this is electrical squeal.

 

[Qbah]

I had that in Crysis on my old HD4870 after a level loaded and the game was asking to press any button to continue. Every single time and in no other game.

Now I play all my games with triple buffered v-sync, so no idea if it's still happening anywhere with this card (games capped at 60FPS). I'm not really curious about it either

 

[DarkUltra]

I've experienced this in many games, old and newer. Reason is very high FPS. Stupid developers should cap the framerate of menus. Vsync caps your framerate, noise goes away. All good. :thumbsup:

No I think hardware manufacturers should make tighter components that do not squeal under various loads. What if some type of GPGPU program like folding at home or video transcoding made the hardware squeal?

V-sync create a lot of input lag, unless it is triple-buffered or rendering three frames ahead.

 

[DarkUltra]

I get a weird squeal from what is probably my GPU in the NWN1 main menu and ONLY there, navigating to different sub menus alters the tone of the squeal, starting a game or alt tabbing makes it go away.
I have never encountered it anywhere else (nowhere else in that game, and never in any other game).

It has been doing that for literally years. (I think it started at a certain patch of the game). IIRC I have reformatted, upgraded the OS, and replaced the mobo, cpu, and ram over the years without causing it to go away. (I haven't been replacing them to get rid of it, i just upgraded over time)... one thing I didn't replace is my video card, a GTX260 SC.

Any clue as to why it only does that in that specific circumstances?

You did not replace your PSU? It seems that graphics cards these days can make certain PSUs squeal whine. RMA that PSU if its still under warranty and say it squeals with eVGA GTX260 SC. It probably squeals with a 285 and gtx 480/470 too. Try a MSI graphics card if you cant replace your PSU.

- COMPUTEX 2009: Personally I just want to say, hurrah for MSI because it's a shame Nvidia didn't learn how to stop its GTX 200-series from making the coils inside a PSU squeal like a baby powered from a 230V source sooner. After reporting the problem to Nvidia, we were greeted with denial - it was unable to replicate the problem - until we sent readouts from an oscilloscope, displaying the interference shooting back up the PCIe power connectors into the PSU. MSI has solved the issue by researching and sourcing different chokes as part of its customised PCB power design for its Lightening series of graphics cards.
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2009/05/29/msi-solves-the-nvidia-gtx-squealing-problem/1

 

[taltamir]

No I think hardware manufacturers should make tighter components that do not squeal under various loads. What if some type of GPGPU program like folding at home or video transcoding made the hardware squeal?

V-sync create a lot of input lag, unless it is triple-buffered or rendering three frames ahead.

no, V-sync has the potential for large FPS drops which triple buffering prevents.
Triple buggering causes a small amount of input lag, v-sync itself causes no input lag at all.

You did not replace your PSU? It seems that graphics cards these days can make certain PSUs squeal whine. RMA that PSU if its still under warranty and say it squeals with eVGA GTX260 SC. It probably squeals with a 285 and gtx 480/470 too. Try a MSI graphics card if you cant replace your PSU.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the PSU.
1. It was capacitors on the GPU that made the squeal.
2. It was caused by 3000FPS on main menu (3d rendered, but simplistic)
3. It was already resolved by forcing vsync on in driver.

 

[badb0y]

Too much FPS lol.

 

[Athadeus]

My Gigabyte GTX 460 1gb used to whine only during the splash screens (CryTek, Intel, nVidia, EA, etc) while starting Crysis and Warhead. It didn't even do it in the menus. That was with driver 258.something, but when I updated to 260.something, it has not done it since .