Video card for AoE 3

[travisj]

I'm slowly gathering parts for a new system and found a x800 for $145 after rebate and grabbed it.

Now I'm regretting it because the first game that will really test my system is Age of Empires 3 (coming out this October)

According to an interview with Ensembe Studios (developer)

The Age of Empires III engine is a fully DX9, Shader 3.0 compliant engine with more technical bells and whistles than any other PC game to date. As you can see from the screenshots, we have a world that feels bright and sunny, but with a softness and depth that hasn't been seen before. From things like self-shadowing to HDR (high dynamic range) lighting to water that has proper Fresnel reflectance properties, this is a very high-end graphics engine.

What worries me is that my x800 doesn't have Shader 3.0 (2.0b or whatever).

My big question is should I switch to a 6600GT for the Shader 3.0? Will that card even be able to run AoE 3 with all the Lighting?

Thanks in advance for the advice,
Travis

 

[mwmorph]

6600gt is the minimum recommended as reported by MS. now taht you have a x800, i would keep it. It's around 10% faster and SM2 will still have many of the features that SM3 has, and AOE3 willl overdo the HDR to make everything too bright(there's a screenie around here that shows how badly HDR seems to be implemented in AOE3).

It is crazy to change cards for 1 game, but if you feel you need to, get at least a 6800. the 6600gt is way behind the curve.

edit: here it is,
http://nvidia.com/docs/IO/24708/hdr_full.jpg
the left one is clearly overboosted in brightness and stone reflects like metal. Also, look at the mountains and clouds in the background, the light in HDR overpowers them so the sky and mountains are completely lost.

HDR is good, but AOE3 should not be your sole reason to switch.

 

[Lonyo]

I would WAIT.
Since the new ATi cards should hopefully be announced in the next 2 weeks, and AoE3 won't be out until probably after the new ATi cards, and after the new nVidia cards have dropped in price a bit more, so there's no point buying NOW for something that won't be out until after the gfx market has been shaken up a bit.

 

[klah]

Keep your current card, at least until the game/demo is released and we see some benchmarks and the usefulness of the additional features.

 

[travisj]

I wouldn't trash the x800, probably resell it (or return it) for a 10-15% loss.

So you'd recommend keeping the x800 and waiting 'til I can afford a 6800GT, 7800GT, any 7600 that may exist, or one of the new Radeons ?

Edit: Which is an upgrade I'd probably do anyway. Thanks for the responses.

 

[Killrose]

I will venture the guess that the 6600GT will not be able to run the game at a playable framerate with HDR enabled at 1024x768.

The SM 3.0 compliant aspect might however give the 6600GT a big performance advantage against the X800 that does not support it, but the X800 is a 12pipe card with a 256bit mem bus, so it might even the playing field.

Wait for the demo/game

 

[coomar]

the 256 bit interface will be huge in rts games

 

[CU]

Why will 256bit memory interface help rts games so much?

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: CU
Why will 256bit memory interface help rts games so much?

Double the bandwidth of a 128bit interface. Although the insanely high clocked memory of the 6600GT almost makes up for it (The reason it has an edge on the 6800NU at lower resolutions)

I would wait until the next gen mid-range. I would also wait until the game comes out.

-Kevin

 

[travisj]

I'm building my computer now because I have time (once semester starts I won't). I'm pretty sure that for <=$160 the Radeon x800 is about as good as I can do. I won't mess with exchanging it now and upgrade to a mid-range next gen card when I have the time an money (christmas anyone?)

 

[CU]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: CU
Why will 256bit memory interface help rts games so much?

Double the bandwidth of a 128bit interface. Although the insanely high clocked memory of the 6600GT almost makes up for it (The reason it has an edge on the 6800NU at lower resolutions)

I would wait until the next gen mid-range. I would also wait until the game comes out.

-Kevin

I know going to 256bit interface doubles the bandwidth. I assumed the poster meant it helped rts games more than say fps games. The 6600gt does not have more bandwidth than the 6800nu though. The 6600gt has around 15 GB/s and the 6800nu has around 22.4 GB/s depending on the exact clockspeeds. The reason the 6600gt can edge out the 6800nu in lower resolutions is because memory bandwidth does not matter anymore only fillrate does and the 6600gt has 4000megapixels vs the 6800nu which has 3900megapixels. The 6800nu should act just like a 6600gt with more memory bandwidth and does. It only starts pull ahead of the 6600gt when you up the resolution or add AA.

 

[Topweasel]

Yove have 2-3 months to see if Nvidia or Ati are going o do anyhing worh while. While my policy is to buy wha you can afford when you want to buy it, I don't think it holds true here since you only are trying to make sure one games work and that game isn't out yet.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: CU

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: CU
Why will 256bit memory interface help rts games so much?

Double the bandwidth of a 128bit interface. Although the insanely high clocked memory of the 6600GT almost makes up for it (The reason it has an edge on the 6800NU at lower resolutions)

I would wait until the next gen mid-range. I would also wait until the game comes out.

-Kevin

I know going to 256bit interface doubles the bandwidth. I assumed the poster meant it helped rts games more than say fps games. The 6600gt does not have more bandwidth than the 6800nu though. The 6600gt has around 15 GB/s and the 6800nu has around 22.4 GB/s depending on the exact clockspeeds. The reason the 6600gt can edge out the 6800nu in lower resolutions is because memory bandwidth does not matter anymore only fillrate does and the 6600gt has 4000megapixels vs the 6800nu which has 3900megapixels. The 6800nu should act just like a 6600gt with more memory bandwidth and does. It only starts pull ahead of the 6600gt when you up the resolution or add AA.

Notice i said almost makes up for it. Its memory is running at much higher speeds.

However you do have a point. The core clock speed is significantly higher than the 6800NU.

-Kevin

 

[CU]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: CU

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: CU
Why will 256bit memory interface help rts games so much?

Double the bandwidth of a 128bit interface. Although the insanely high clocked memory of the 6600GT almost makes up for it (The reason it has an edge on the 6800NU at lower resolutions)

I would wait until the next gen mid-range. I would also wait until the game comes out.

-Kevin

I know going to 256bit interface doubles the bandwidth. I assumed the poster meant it helped rts games more than say fps games. The 6600gt does not have more bandwidth than the 6800nu though. The 6600gt has around 15 GB/s and the 6800nu has around 22.4 GB/s depending on the exact clockspeeds. The reason the 6600gt can edge out the 6800nu in lower resolutions is because memory bandwidth does not matter anymore only fillrate does and the 6600gt has 4000megapixels vs the 6800nu which has 3900megapixels. The 6800nu should act just like a 6600gt with more memory bandwidth and does. It only starts pull ahead of the 6600gt when you up the resolution or add AA.

Notice i said almost makes up for it. Its memory is running at much higher speeds.

However you do have a point. The core clock speed is significantly higher than the 6800NU.

-Kevin

I noticed "almost" but you said that (memory bandwidth) was the reason it has an edge on the on the 6800nu which is not true. The reason is because it has just alittle more fillrate. Also note you can not just look at number of pipes or gpu speed. A gpu with 48 pipes running at 200mhz can outrun a card with 8 pipes running at 1000mhz. Same goes for memory bandwidth and ram speed.

Back on topic I would say wait till the game is released before you upgrade cards. Also I believe gpu power is more important for rts games than memory bandwidth, because of the amount of vertices that the gpu must process. Also I would think rts games use smaller textures than most games freeing up memory and bandwidth. I could be wrong about this though as I have not seen any test on this.

 

[coomar]

it makes a difference in rome:total war

though from the benchmarks I remember, they were testing 256bit 256 meg cards against the gt so it might not just be the 256-bit interface

 

[Gamingphreek]

I noticed "almost" but you said that (memory bandwidth) was the reason it has an edge on the on the 6800nu which is not true. The reason is because it has just alittle more fillrate. Also note you can not just look at number of pipes or gpu speed. A gpu with 48 pipes running at 200mhz can outrun a card with 8 pipes running at 1000mhz. Same goes for memory bandwidth and ram speed.

Ummm no it cant. How do you plan on keeping all those pipes filled. Why do you think that ATI and Nvidia are going to unified shaders?

You are correct. Raw fillrate, and clockspeed matter more in RTS. Bandwidth is more a FPS aspect.

-Kevin

 

[chinkgai]

aoeIII = :thumbsup:

 

[coomar]

its been a while since an rts was released

 

[Hacp]

Keep your card and see how it performs... I'm pretty sure that card will run games at 1280/1024..

 

[munchow2]

A mid-range card (6600GT/x800) will not be able to run AOE3 with everthing maxed out with all the lighting as you say. A 6800GT might be able to although I doubt it. You'd probably need a 7800GT to run it smoothly?

In regards to those 2 cards in specific, I think the x800 with more pipes will for sure outperform the 6600GT in that particular game.

 

[coomar]

i'm fairly certain a 6800gt will run a0e3 maxed out on the nf3/nf4 platform

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: coomar
i'm fairly certain a 6800gt will run a0e3 maxed out on the nf3/nf4 platform

Im fairly certain you are sorely mistaken.

-Kevin

 

[chinkgai]

maybe at a loooow res

 

[chinkgai]

or maybe at decent res if overclocked to ultra speed? maybe?

 

[coomar]

we'll see when it comes out