Via C7 Processor

[aidanjm]

Very tiny and very cool:

Pic of C7 next to a Pentium M

"Despite its tiny die size and lack of a heat spreader, thanks to its TM2 and TwinTurbo design, C7-M processors can operate without a heat sink. In fact, VIA demonstrated a C7-M processor performing DVD decoding with no CPU heat sink at all at a presentation at the 2005 VIA Technology Forum. The petite chip was so cool that members of the audience could comfortably touch the bare die while the processor flawlessly played a movie in Windows XP."

 

[Furen]

And a very horrible performer. I can't believe VIA actually uses the die-size as a selling point, since this indicates that there is less hardware on chip. Now, if this was priced cheap enough so that we started seeing very cheap laptops coming out (or could make one of those pico ITX systems pretty cheaply) then I'd probably bite the bullet anyway, but VIA prices these as premium parts...

 

[Stumps]

errrr VIA cpu's errrr...soooooooo sloooooowwww, apart form super low power/super quiet PC's, there is no point to VIA processors, especially at the prices they go for in Australia, often more expensive than some AMD64 and Intel Celeron D processors...both of which will mop the flaw with VIA cpu's..in every task except power consumption.

 

[peternelson]

In general, the C7 won't really run most applications like games anywhere near as fast.

But you are forgetting the possible exception of ONBOARD HARDWARE ENCRYPTION and TRUE NOISEBASED RANDOM NUMBER GENERATION.

I would buy several C7 for these reasons.

My issue is that although it was announced year(s) ago, VIA seem very poor at delivering the product or boards with it on into any kind of distribution channel where I can BUY it.

GRRRRR.

 

[MBrown]

I was thinking this was the next Cyrix cpu when I entered this thread.

 

[PingSpike]

I have a via C3 1ghz in my mini server/torrent machine at home. I felt it was a great choice for the task, because the machine never does anything processor intensive and it keeps the electric bill down. I will admit that the chip was a bit more expensive then I felt it should have been, given that it only performs about as well as a celeron 450mhz or so. However, it was easy to keep the machine cool and quiet as well.

I believe they are serving an important niche market with these chips, but I agree they could stand to trip the price a bit.

One thing I do think they do thats smart is to just use intel's old platform for their chips. The platform is mature, cheap and stable by the time they move to it...and they don't have to do any development work on their own.

 

[Zap]

Part of the die size difference is the cache... 128k is pretty small by today's standards though it may or may not matter depending on CPU efficiency. For instance, I have two socket 754 Semprons with 128k cache that perform rather well. Comparing it to the Dothan core transistor count is deceiving because Dothans have 2MB cache.

There are some uses for the VIA processors because not everyone needs a nosebleed fast computer. There are plenty of people who wouldn't mind a "slower" computer for daily office style tasks such as word processing, email, web browsing. I dare say that there would be little noticeable difference between various CPUs for these tasks as long as the CPU was "fast enough" and the VIA chips certainly are.

The battery performance is very impressive and may be a selling point for use in a travelling notebook (not DTR).

Other uses include car PC, Linux router, HTPC (it's powerful enough for most playback uses), computer modding (stuff it into a small, non-computer case), terminal workstation, etc. Indeed I wouldn't mind having one of these for use in my server/router box (currently undervolted mobile P4).

There are two things stopping me from using these chips/platforms. First, availability, or lack thereof. VIA makes a wide range of mini-ITX and nano-ITX board/CPU bundles, but few places carry a couple of them let alone the full range. Also, the newest ones almost can't be found anywhere. Second, pricing. The older models and slower ones (under 1GHz) are close to $100 but the higher performance models can be priced over $200. My current server uses a $25 motherboard and $30 used mobile P4 with the CPU undervolted in BIOS. Okay, that's an extreme case. My HTPC uses a $70 motherboard and a $70 socket 754 Sempron with the CPU severely undervolted in BIOS. Those are straight brand new retail prices. Performance reasons aside, tough to justify going the VIA route for a higher cost.

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: MBrown
I was thinking this was the next Cyrix cpu when I entered this thread.

Well technically it is as Cyrix was bought by VIA a while ago. As was IDT IIRC.

 

[v8envy]

Totaly pointless. The AMD Geode is worlds faster, and also runs 10-14 watts for the 1500 and 1750 PR rated models respectively. And is about as available. I even remember a site selling them for less than the arm and leg Via wants for their 'premium' parts.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: peternelson
In general, the C7 won't really run most applications like games anywhere near as fast.

But you are forgetting the possible exception of ONBOARD HARDWARE ENCRYPTION and TRUE NOISEBASED RANDOM NUMBER GENERATION.

I would buy several C7 for these reasons.

My issue is that although it was announced year(s) ago, VIA seem very poor at delivering the product or boards with it on into any kind of distribution channel where I can BUY it.

GRRRRR.

I believe intel cpus already have true noisebased random number generation.
Onboard hardware encryption? Is it faster than a 64-bit software scheme?

 

[Goi]

Why do you need hardware encryption and noisebased random number generation?

 

[otispunkmeyer]

would it be a good chip for say a in car multimedia or sat nav system? surely they dont need mega amounts of horsepower, and they need to be very cool due to very small closed spaces.

i read there, that the C7's are built on 90nm strained silicon, isnt that what AMD use for its FX series of chips? and hence why they have a price premium?

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer
would it be a good chip for say a in car multimedia or sat nav system? surely they dont need mega amounts of horsepower, and they need to be very cool due to very small closed spaces.

i read there, that the C7's are built on 90nm strained silicon, isnt that what AMD use for its FX series of chips? and hence why they have a price premium?

Still, Pentium M's and underclocked mobile athlon xps (sold as geodes now) offer better performance per watt, and can get their wattage levels on par with the C7 or be higher while still relatively low and offering much better performance.
A 300mhz athlon xp can draw around 3W, while performing about the same as a 900mhz C7.

 

[Zap]

The other issue besides strictly CPU power is size. The VIA chips are on mini ITX boards (and even nano ITX). Where are the small boards for Pentium M or Geode?

 

[Fox5]

Well, I've seen Pentium M boards the size of the one in the Mac Mini, how's that compare to nano-itx?

For that matter, the new Oragami computers are really tiny and use Pentium Ms.
There's also a fujitsu lifebook that's barely bigger than a PDA that uses a Pentium M.

 

[Zap]

The availability of the mini/nano ITX boards haven't been that good. How's availability of the small Pentium M boards? It's one thing to say that they exist and another thing alltogether to be able to easily mail order one for $200 with a CPU.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Zap
The availability of the mini/nano ITX boards haven't been that good. How's availability of the small Pentium M boards? It's one thing to say that they exist and another thing alltogether to be able to easily mail order one for $200 with a CPU.

There are a few mini-itx Pentium M boards slowly creeping onto the market. I have been seriously tempted by this DFI mini-itx pentium M board:

DFI G5M100-N Pentium M Mini-ITX Motherboard

and here are two mini-itx Pentium M boards made by Commel


People seem so negative in this thread. I think Via deserves a bit of credit for inventing the mini-itx and nano-itx formats. It's true the Via Epia/ mini-itx boards are pricey, but it's not like they are being made in the same volume as mainstream boards. Also there are lots of innovative solutions for mini-itx boards that aren't easily available with larger boards, such as completely fanless cases (check out the cute little case with lcd panel on the front - how cool is that?!?) and cases designed to be used in cars (for mp3 players). The mini-itx.com site is a really great place to see all the creative uses that people have come up with for the via mini-itx boards (stuffing them in all sorts of interesting enclosures and places).

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: aidanjm
and here are two mini-itx Pentium M boards made by Commel

I ran across that site Friday (seems like I've been there before also). That $400 board is nice, but it's a $400 board...

I think that's the biggest reason I haven't played around with one of those, cost of entry. Sheesh, it ends up cheaper to gut a Shuttle SFF box in some cases.