Via blames Nvidia for WinXP problems

[LAUST]

I have a GeForce 2 GTS on my P3 850 BX mobo, I haven't had lockups on any version of driver in XP from the default driver in XP to the one released this week.

In that time I've played RTCW, Empire Earth, ST Armada 2, AOE2 and AvP2.....................Zero lockups

Just my 2 million Lira

 

[sandorski]

Wow, a buggy Nvidia driver? Who'd of thought it? When VIA gets mentioned, it seems that many people forget all about the past buggy Nvidia drivers, close to half the unreleased(leaked) Nvidia drivers caused someone grief. As with the SB Live issue, VIA is likely putting the blame squarely on the perpetrator.

 

[NFS4]

I don't think that VIA is all to blame here like Pabster says. The NV4_DISP, infinite loop, and BSOD issues have been traced back to Intel chipsets as well running NVIDIA cards and Windows XP. As VIA stated in the readme for their latest patch to address this issue, NVIDIA is using more aggressive memory patterns which is causing the problems with these drivers. VIA, luckily, is providing a patch to address the issue...


<< So what does it do? It closes the RX55 memory register in BIOS. The RX55 register's official name and function is Memory Write Queue (MWQ) timer. The MWQ timer is actually a timing device included in the memory host controller to prevent write data being held in the memory queue too long. After the data has been in the queue too long it times out. This timed out data is then given a higher write request priority. Now that might sound nice ? a bit of extra performance BUT the procedure fails when overloaded. 3D games and Win XP put too much load on the memory queuing timer procedure. The nVidia new driver exaggerates the problem even more as the driver enables nVidia cards to use even more memory than previous driver versions. >>


Don't think that NVIDIA is above the law. They CAN do wrong as well.

 

[Pabster]

NFS4 wrote:

"VIA, luckily, is providing a patch to address the issue..."

Well, they're pretty experienced in the releasing of patches, that's for sure

It's absolutely ridiculous for VIA to run around blaming hardware manufacturers' when certain pieces of hardware have trouble with one (or more) VIA chipsets. I realize in this particular case that people have reported problems on the Intel platform as well. The funny thing is, 23.10 runs rock solid on all my chipsets (including SiS 645). Perhaps this leads us to an issue common to a VIA/Intel chipset?

Those who continue to blame Creative! for the SB! Live fiascoes are on the wrong page. VIA was squarely at fault. To this day, there are no shortage of people enduring endless frustration attempting to get their SB! Live or Audigy products running properly on certain VIA-based boards. There have even been issues reported with KT266A along the same lines. Just remember that for every user without trouble, there is at least one with trouble.

 

[NFS4]

<< NFS4 wrote:

"VIA, luckily, is providing a patch to address the issue..."

Well, they're pretty experienced in the releasing of patches, that's for sure

It's absolutely ridiculous for VIA to run around blaming hardware manufacturers' when certain pieces of hardware have trouble with one (or more) VIA chipsets. I realize in this particular case that people have reported problems on the Intel platform as well. The funny thing is, 23.10 runs rock solid on all my chipsets (including SiS 645). Perhaps this leads us to an issue common to a VIA/Intel chipset?

Those who continue to blame Creative! for the SB! Live fiascoes are on the wrong page. VIA was squarely at fault. To this day, there are no shortage of people enduring endless frustration attempting to get their SB! Live or Audigy products running properly on certain VIA-based boards. There have even been issues reported with KT266A along the same lines. Just remember that for every user without trouble, there is at least one with trouble. >>



1) It is NOT ridiculous for VIA to blame NVIDIA is it IS NVIDIA's fault!! I don't understand your logic. Ford has had issues with quality in the past, but if Delco starts sending them faulty parts that cause problems, FORD HAS EVERY RIGHT TO CALL THEM ON IT.

You are just looking for YET another way to kick 'em while they're down :disgust:

2) And the SB Live! not only had issues with the 686B, it also had problems with Intel's own i815 series of chipsets. And the Live! was the ONLY sound card that had problems on the 686B southbridge. The Live! is a PCI bus hogging device and that is a well known fact.

 

[Midnight Rambler]

<< 1) It is NOT ridiculous for VIA to blame NVIDIA is it IS NVIDIA's fault!! I don't understand your logic. Ford has had issues with quality in the past, but if Delco starts sending them faulty parts that cause problems, FORD HAS EVERY RIGHT TO CALL THEM ON IT. >>

Except that we wouldn't ship defective parts to FORD in the first place ... my product group is consistently achieving 0.6-.7 defects/million ... now if you had said Firestone tires instead of Delco (actually now Delphi) parts you might have somethin' ...

I tend to agree with you though, this looks like an nVidia issue. Wouldn't be the first time a graphics chipmaker got carried away "tweaking" their drivers. Diamond started this crap years ago when they were the first to exploit GDI by-passing.



<< 2) And the SB Live! not only had issues with the 686B, it also had problems with Intel's own i815 series of chipsets. And the Live! was the ONLY sound card that had problems on the 686B southbridge. The Live! is a PCI bus hogging device and that is a well known fact. >>

This I don't get. ??? I've built 27 Intel i815x-based systems in the past year, and every one of them has a SBLive!, yet not a single one has had any issues whatsoever. I doubt it would boil down to chipset implementation by the mobo manufacturer, but then again, every system I built had either an Asus or an Intel mobo.



<< Why should these companies have to write new drivers every time M$ wants to release a new OS? Why can't M$ just make an OS that's configurable to accomodate future technologies instead of selling us a new OS that has driver problems every year or so? >>

Well to do that I'm sure Micro$oft would need to borrow your crystal ball ...

 

[oldfart]

I've built (only 4) 815E systems with SBLive cards. None of them have had any problems.

 

[j@cko]

I don't think it's time for them to blame each other, rather to work with each other.

 

[neutralizer]

I'm running the new det. xp 23.11 drivers on my EP-8KHA+ with win xp and so far I haven't had an problems either. (BTW, i have a ti200.)

 

[RanDum72]

I had a major problem with the latest VIA AGP driver and the newest Detonator drivers with my Epox 8KHA+. There is a conflict that doesn't allow me to
change the drivers or uninstall and install new drivers for my PNY GeForce 3 Ti200. The only workaround is to use the AGP drivers included in WinXP Pro.

 

[Demonicon]

<< I don't think it's time for them to blame each other, rather to work with each other. >>



Well, in a perfect world you're right.

The fact is that VIA is taking the heat for another companies drivers faults(look no further than half the posts on this thread). That does not make you want to work with another company, it just pisses you off. VIA has every right to be pissed at Nvidia.

If anyone should be working together, it's Nvidia with VIA and any other chipset this driver has caused problems for. Nvidia drivers caused this whole mess, and VIA is still taking heat for it, it's rediculous.

 

[Pabster]

LOL, how on earth can anyone deny that VIA's 686B is buggy? Not only is it incompatible with Creative cards, it's also responsible for dismal IDE performance, data corruption, etc. These issues are documented. Yes, there have been "fixes". No, they don't work for everyone. Just ask around the forums here and see how many people are still having troubles with a 686B-based mainboard. No combination of BIOS revisions, 4-in-1 "fixes", beta VIA "drivers", or WPCREDIT patches will fix it. So again I say, why am I always attacked for pointing out the obvious? I've used these boards, I know the issues, and I'm tired of people denying them.

Also, while many have been quick to point out supposed issues with Creative cards and i815, I have not personally heard of anyone having such issues. I also don't see people here (or anywhere else, for that matter) complaining about not being able to get their card to work with an i815-based board. OTOH, it is incredibly regular (read: routine) to see someone griping about clicks, pops, lockups, BSODs, IRQ troubles, latency issues, et al -- not coincidentally nearly always with a VIA chipset.

If I were looking to "hit 'em while they're down", I certainly wouldn't have to look too hard.

 

[Demonicon]

Pabster, do you have any clue what you're ranting about, or are you just ranting to rant?

I don't think anyone in this world will say as fact that VIA chipsets are flawless. The fact is that alot of people use boards with VIA chipsets(myself included) that have run flawless.

First you rant on how it's all VIA's fault with the new Nvidia drivers and Nvidia's reputation makes them invulnerable from criticism or making mistakes.

Then you spew some stuff about creative and how VIA sucks.

Now, to top it all off, you go on some bloated tangent on VIA 686B.

In none of these posts did you try to back up your STRONG statements with fact or even a hint of fact You think you could quote from your I Hate VIA book, or post a link to your I hate VIA website?

 

[tech]

How funny. Didn't via blame creative for the live series of sound cards. Now nvidia. Hey I'm suprised via didn't just blame microsoft XP. haaa, haaa.

 

[Bovinicus]

This is why I didn't jump on the XP bandwagon. Wether it's NVIDIA's fault, MS's, VIA's, no matter. Problems like this always seem to spawn with new OS's. Win2K is the way to go in my opinion. =)

 

[Pabster]

Demonicon wrote:

"I don't think anyone in this world will say as fact that VIA chipsets are flawless. The fact is that alot of people use boards with VIA chipsets(myself included) that have run flawless."

According to quite a few here, they are flawless. Several report report "no problems". Of course they're full of sh!t, but that's neither here nor there. Each and every VIA chipset user has had an issue at some point directly related to faulty VIA core logic. Whether they admit to it or not. Perhaps they haven't even realized where the problem lies. I never cease to be amazed at the VIA zealots who quote the stability of their VIA chipsets, yet always end up their attack/rant with "...except for that one time, when I had to do xxxxx..., but..."

"First you rant on how it's all VIA's fault with the new Nvidia drivers and Nvidia's reputation makes them invulnerable from criticism or making mistakes."

Try reading a little bit more. Never did I state that it was "all VIA's fault". I did say that it was ludicrous for VIA to attack or criticize another entity for an issue when they are so blatantly guilty of such "issues" themselves. Whether the issue lies with nVidia or not, I found the idea of VIA "going on the attack" absolutely ridiculous. Perhaps they ought to "go on the attack" and remedy a few issues with their buggy chipsets?

"Then you spew some stuff about creative and how VIA sucks."

You're either not reading, or misquoting. Again, I never once said that Creative sucked. VIA, on the other hand...

 

[Demonicon]

I wash my hands, happy VIA hunting. :disgust: sheesh

 

[ST4RCUTTER]

Several report report "no problems". Of course they're full of sh!t, but that's neither here nor there. Each and every VIA chipset user has had an issue at some point directly related to faulty VIA core logic. Whether they admit to it or not. Perhaps they haven't even realized where the problem lies. I never cease to be amazed at the VIA zealots who quote the stability of their VIA chipsets, yet always end up their attack/rant with "...except for that one time, when I had to do

I've had no problems from my VIA chipsets. No problems with the Creative SB Live, no problems with IDE performance, no problems with AGP performance. And if I did have a problem I'm pretty sure I could find the problem or find someone who could help me find the problem. Why shouldn't I quote the stability of my past VIA chipsets. I kinda like having my systems run for 60+ days at a stretch...and you won't see any "...except for that one time..." in my posts.

Of course I could be wrong....apparently I'm full of sh!t too. :Q

 

[AGodspeed]

All I have to say is there IS a problem, and NOT just in WinXP, but in Win98.

First, let me say this much; I can't even remember the last time I had a BSOD on my computer. I know for sure it has been at least 2 months, if not 3 or 4 months. Running Win98SE with a GeForce3 and MSI K7 Master board (AMD NB, VIA SB) I got 2 consecutive BSODs about an hour or so after downloading the 23.11 drivers.

The first BSOD occured as I was running Prime95, listening to music, etc. However, I don't believe the BSOD occurred as a result of Prime95, since I hadn't ever encountered a BSOD running Prime95 since I first installed my K7 Master about 6 months ago. The real shocking part was when I got a second BSOD, which was made me even more perplexed as to the problem because I was barely multitasking when it happened.

This issue isn't confined to WinXP, I'm sure that the 2 BSODs I encountered were as a result of the 23.11 drivers. I've already gotten rid of them, so it's all good.

 

[billyjak]

There is some compatibility problems with the 23.11's, after installing them I can't get scandisk or disk defrag to work, it just hangs.
Using win9x SE, going back to the trusted 12.90's

 

[Brian48]

Just my .02, running WinXP with v23.11 - no problems what so ever.

1st box: 87KA+ w/GeForce3
2nd box: KA7-100 w/GF2 GTS-V

Using very aggressive memory setting in the BIOS for both motherboards.

 

[NFS4]

I also have no problems with my VIA setup and the new 23.11 drivers with my NVIDIA GF3 Ti 200 card.

 

[jaeger66]

The 686B problem was Creative's fault, and it wasn't only on VIA chipsets. The Live drivers hijacked the secondary IDE controller(by streaming null data over it) to keep it's PCI bus priority at the top. But sure, let's blame VIA. It's cool!

 

[Budman]

<< The 686B problem was Creative's fault, and it wasn't only on VIA chipsets. The Live drivers hijacked the secondary IDE controller(by streaming null data over it) to keep it's PCI bus priority at the top. But sure, let's blame VIA. It's cool! >>



That's funny, my sis 735 doesnt have any problems with my Sblive Value,liveware3 installed in XP & all is fine,i could not say the same when i had a via chipset.:disgust:

 

[jaeger66]

I didn't say every single setup had a problem. The real issue was BIOS engineers trying to compensate for Creative's woeful drivers, the response to which varied by company.