VHD. The best thing about Windows 7. Use it.

[Cattykit]

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=vhd&aq=f&aqi=g10&oq=&fp=b36c7832dbb01be6

VHD, I think is the best thing about Windows 7 that nobody talks or even know about. This not only is a great OS backup tool but you can even boot from it on the fly. Because it's so damn great, I even find it strange why people are still using programs such as Ghost, TrueImage...etc.
VHD alone is such a great backup solution and it gets even better with Differencing VHD solution.
How does differencing VHD work?

Imagine this situation.
You installed Windows, installed updates, important programs, tools, and what-not. Then you make parent VHD of this OS because if shit happens, you can always go back to this one. However, in time, you install more programs, tools, codecs, and anything. You could make another VHD of this but doing so would take more space, time, and effort. Even worse, you're not even sure if this stage of OS is worth keeping it.

In that case, you just make child image of it (Trueimage has something alike). Simply put, it works as a layer and you can either keep this layer or nuke it to go back to the ideal stage. And, of course, you get to choose which one to boot from. So, instead of backing up 30GB of OS then to loading that 30GB of OS only to start over, you can simply delete a few GB or even MB of layered VHD to go back. If you like the layer, you can also merge it to the parent VHD.


Possible usage scenario:

1. Parent VHD file created after installing Windows + drivers + updates + tweaks + crucial programs. (Usually 25+GB thanks to massive Adobe CS4 suite)
2. Child VHD created. (100K + anything you install from this point)
3. Backup of child VHD (100K)

After that you boot from child VHD and everything you do is saved on that child VHD. In other words, parent VHD doesn't get altered. After a while, you realize your Windows is currupted. It could be all those residues of programs you once used then erased, it could be codec curruptions, it could be driver conflicts...etc. It's inevitable you install Windows from scratch. Or, you could bring back image file you created with Ghost, TrueImage, or Windows' own backup solution. This takes time but with VHD, you only need to reboot the system, delete second child VHD then use 3rd fresh child VHD.

How about this? All the updates patches or programs you installed in parent VHD gets outdated. With VHD, you boot from parent VHD once, update everything, and that's it. Now you boot from child VHD and everything is updated as parent VHD is updated. Very simple, isn't it? Now, think about doing that in other image solution such as Ghost and TrueImage.

What more can I say? Think about possibilites you can do with it. I highly recommand it!

EDIT: To clarify misunderstandings and confusions, I'll add a few facts.

1. Although VHD is widely used as a part of VPC solution, people, even experts like JackMDS, seem to think VHD is tied to VPC. This is wrong.
My method does NOT make your PC to run as VPC. There's no hardware emulation and your GPU is not treated as an aged S3 graphics card. You can install, update all the drivers and all the hardware components run as they're supposed to run.
Simply put, when you boot using VHD file, it's just like booting from a physical HDD. It's NOT like running Windows 7 VPC on top of regular Windows 7.

2. VHD files are treated as physical HDDs, thus the name VHD.

3. Limitations: You can't use BitLocker Drive Encryption. You can't use Hibernate function. Windows' own swap file can't be stored on VHD. Also, there's supposed to be 1-3% HDD performance hit though I never felt it.

4. Windows' own System Imaging Backup solution makes use of VHD, though once it's restored, it's not treated as VHD. You can also boot from this VHD file Windows backup solution made by manually attaching boot information; just like VHD files you create your own.

5. A few helpful links to get you started:
http://community.dynamics.com/blogs/cesardalatorre/comments/15471.aspx
http://community.dynamics.com/blogs/cesardalatorre/comments/15471.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/knom/archive/2009/04/07/windows-7-vhd-boot-setup-guideline.aspx
http://blogs.technet.com/aviraj/arc...-7-boot-from-vhd-first-impression-part-1.aspx

update: http://www.windows7hacker.com/index.php/2009/05/native-vhd-boot-to-windows-7/

6. Please keep in mind JackMDS thinks VHD=VPC so the confusion we have here. To save yourself from confusions, please disregard what JackMDS says here.

 

[JackMDS]

Middle of the thread here, http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2033544&highlight=vhd

 

[Red Squirrel]

That is pretty cool, so it's basically like VM snapshots but built into the OS?

 

[JackMDS]

It is Not as seamless as Win 7, but it can be used in Win XP/Vista too.

http://www.tech-recipes.com/rx/3595/windows-xpvista-how-to-attach-a-vhd-file/

.

 

[Cattykit]

That is pretty cool, so it's basically like VM snapshots but built into the OS?

Yup, Windows 7's XP mode, in fact, is a VHD.

 

[JackMDS]

There are two independent things that are done with VHD files.

If it was installed a Boot OS file, and it is used through Windows Virtual Computer, then it runs as guest computer.

In Win 7 the Virtual PC is not installed as a visually seen independent program the way it was in Vista/XP, it just deposit its exe files in the system directory.

That means that the operation looks more seamless but it is more of an interface change rather than a total new way to run a Guest Virtual computer.

The other use of VHD is to Mount a drive as a data drive. I.e it more like ISO type of function.

It is a good way to preserver Data Files for backup but it is Not a direct substitute to a Bootable type of "Ghost" backup application like TrueImage.

 

[Cattykit]

There are two independent things that are done with VHD files.

If it was installed a Boot OS file, and it is used through Windows Virtual Computer, then it runs as guest computer.

In Win 7 the Virtual PC is not installed as a visually seen independent program the way it was in Vista/XP, it just deposit its exe files in the system directory.

That means that the operation looks more seamless but it is more of an interface change rather than a total new way to run a Guest Virtual computer.

The other use of VHD is to Mount a drive as a data drive. I.e it more like ISO type of function.

It is a good way to preserver Data Files for backup but it is Not a direct substitute to a Bootable type of "Ghost" backup application like TrueImage.

I use VHD as last method you mentioned and in my case, it replaced Ghost and TrueImage completely. With it, I can just boot from it on the fly without having to go through time consuming processes. I can make additional backups without cost of time+disk space.

This works so damn great if you want to keep Windows as clean as possible. Sometimes, I install programs, utilities, or codecs without fully knowing if I really want them. Prior installing them, I make child VHD (layer) on parent VHD, if I realize I don't want them and that it screwed Windows, I can simply just go back to the previous stage by using that VHD. If I want to keep them, I simply make another child VHD which only consumes a few space as they're added as a layer on top of parent-master VHD.
I even use this method instead of using Uninstall option for it wipes out unwanted programs 100%. Again, the best part is that you don't need to backup 30GB of Windows and rewrite that 30GB back on your HDD. Just boot from selective stages of Windows on the fly.

P.S: My explanation might be confusing for some, in that case, think of it as using layers in photoshop. It's just like that.

EDIT: I mis-read what JackMDS wrote. I do NOT use VHD as last method JackMDS mentioned. I use VHD as what the name suggests: Virtual HDD that is. It's just like having different HDDs for different stages of OS and even better. It's better because unlike having two sets of Windows 7 on different HDDs, they can communicate with each other.

 

[Perryg114]

Ok so what are the details of taking this cool concept to something the average Joe can use. Average Joe being someone computer literate but not a total geek.

Perry

 

[13Gigatons]

Just wanted to say that the latest Acronis True Image will convert a tib file to vhd.

Windows 7 Ultimate and Enterprise are the only two editions that support vhd though from what I have read.

 

[JackMDS]

All over this thread people keep mixing up two different issues.

Method One. Running VHD file that contains a bootable installation of OS as a Virtual active computer.

In case of Windows 7, only the Enterprise, Pro, and Ultimate editions, when used on a computer that has a VT capable CPU, have the capacity to use other OS' running as Full Virtual Computers.

Method Two. Using a VHD file as a mean to mount and use VHD file as Virtual Data Drive.

Mounting any VHD file as a Data drive, is embedded into Win 7, but can also be used on other OS'.

http://blogs.msdn.com/cschotte/arch...vhd-quickly-under-vista-using-your-mouse.aspx

http://www.tech-recipes.com/rx/3595/windows-xpvista-how-to-attach-a-vhd-file/

Note* There are few conversion applications that can convert VHD files to other formats and vice versa.

When intending to use the VHD file as described in Method Two it usually works and the converted files can be used as mounted Virtual data drive.

However, when converting VHD files that contains Bootable image, it usually would Not yield as is a new bootable image in another format. Some times manual editing of the MBR, and bootstrap can help, but most of the times the conversion leaves you with None bootable file that has to be used as a Data file.

 

[13Gigatons]

Thanks for the info Jack.

 

[brocks]

If it was installed a Boot OS file, and it is used through Windows Virtual Computer, then it runs as guest computer.
.

So what is the other fellow talking about when he says he can "boot on the fly" from a VHD? If you have to have WVC running in order to boot from it, it doesn't sound like it will help much if your regular OS won't boot. Am I completely misunderstanding one or both of you?

 

[JackMDS]

The beauty of a VHD that it is just a regular File.

The Windows Virtual PC program is the one that design to Run the file.

Just like word is designed to run a Doc files.

So once more.

A VHD file that contains an installation of Bootable virtual computer can be run as a Guest computer via Windows Virtual PC.

Any VHD file can be mount as a Virtual Data Drive as describe in my previous post.

The file to the right is the Virtual PC application for Win 7 (it is only a 10MB file).

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/download.aspx

After installation it can be used to run other OS' VHD file too, it is not restricted to Win XP Mode.

The installation of XP Mode create an Icon. When you want to run it you just double click on the Icon it is smart enough to start the VPC core application and Run, you do not even see the core application. Like if you double click om a doc file it starts word for you, this one start a second computer on the screen.

Looking at the second vertical line of icons to the left you see three icons with a picture of a Monitor and an orange square on them. These three icons start a Virtual WinXP computer, a Win2000, and a Win98SE Virtual computer.
.

 

[KeypoX]

So can you make a vhd, then format your drive then restore that vhd to the drive?

Seems like you can just mount it and view it?

 

[KeypoX]

or move your install to another drive, that sort of thing? I only think i heard about vhd was that you could install from them...

 

[Cattykit]

http://translate.google.com/transla...http%3A//snoopybox.co.kr/1211&sl=ko&tl=en

The way he's using VHD is same as how I use mine. Not a coincidence because I learned all about VHD from his site. Here's cliff note of what he says:

'There are times I need to update programs. Because I restore child-VHD(the one he boots from) more than a few times a day, I could end up updaing same programs each time. This is not necessary and above boot screen explains it all.

Usually, I boot from the first selection which is a child-VHD file. When I need to update programs, I boot from 4th selection which is a parent-VHD and install updates. (By doing so, such updates stay for it's written on the parent-VHD) Then, I reboot, changes child VHD using 2nd selection.

The first child VHD file is only 100kb and seems to only contain who(where) the parent-VHD is. Hence, there's no need to recreate child-VHD; you only need to update it.

However, even that can be annoying. So, I boot from PE ... and everything is fixed within 30sec.' (which means he can just go back the optimal-clean stage of OS by doing a simple reboot. You see, unlike using Ghost or other imaging programs, you don't need to backup say 30GB of OS partition only to rewrite that 30GB back to OS partition. All it takes is a simple reboot. What works so great is that, as seen in above method, you can keep parent VHD as clean as possible by selectivily installing tested programs, updates, codecs and what-not.)

I need to correct what I said on the other post. I mis-read what JackMDS said. I'm going to edit that post so read it again.

 

[Cattykit]

All over this thread people keep mixing up two different issues.

Method One. Running VHD file that contains a bootable installation of OS as a Virtual active computer.

In case of Windows 7, only the Enterprise, Pro, and Ultimate editions, when used on a computer that has a VT capable CPU, have the capacity to use other OS' running as Full Virtual Computers.

Method Two. Using a VHD file as a mean to mount and use VHD file as Virtual Data Drive.

Mounting any VHD file as a Data drive, is embedded into Win 7, but can also be used on other OS'.

http://blogs.msdn.com/cschotte/arch...vhd-quickly-under-vista-using-your-mouse.aspx

http://www.tech-recipes.com/rx/3595/windows-xpvista-how-to-attach-a-vhd-file/

Note* There are few conversion applications that can convert VHD files to other formats and vice versa.

When intending to use the VHD file as described in Method Two it usually works and the converted files can be used as mounted Virtual data drive.

However, when converting VHD files that contains Bootable image, it usually would Not yield as is a new bootable image in another format. Some times manual editing of the MBR, and bootstrap can help, but most of the times the conversion leaves you with None bootable file that has to be used as a Data file.

Wrong.
You can easily make VHD files bootable by
'1. Connecting VHD file to Windows 7 using built-in Disk mgmt. tool,
2. Then running simple bcdboot command such as
bcdboot x:\windows /s y: (x being the VHD disk and y being the system disk where booting information is stored)'

Should you need detailed explanation and how it works, check this link
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsnoopybox.co.kr%2F1097&sl=ko&tl=en

 

[Modelworks]

explains the whole process, suggest printing it out
http://www.buit.org/2009/02/09/native-vhd-in-windows-7/

http://www.hanselman.com/blog/LessVirtualMoreMachineWindows7AndTheMagicOfBootToVHD.aspx

 

[brocks]

explains the whole process, suggest printing it out

Thanks for those; I was really struggling with the link catty gave. Computers may be able to beat the world chess champion, but translators can rest easy.

So if I understand those articles, you don't need the Windows VPC at all to create or work from the VHD; you are running native on the virtual disk, correct?

Also, the comments on the first one got cut off, but it sounds like not even Win7 Pro will do this, you need Ultimate or Enterprise, correct?

 

[JackMDS]

Ok let me put it this way.

I have a Physical Hard Drive in a computer, it has on it an installation of Win 7 and few Virtual computers.

Suddenly the hard drive dies. It does not boot and can not be read.

I have an image of the whole Drive saved through Acronis True Image on my Home server (taken few days before).

So, I boot the computer with the dead hard drive using the TrueImage Boot CD, and I Ghost through the Network the image.

After about 20 Min. I have again a functional Win 7 computer with the Virtual computer working well again.

What you would do if you lost the physical HD?

 

[Cattykit]

Ok let me put it this way.

I have a Physical Hard Drive in a computer, it has on it an installation of Win 7 and few Virtual computers.

Suddenly the hard drive dies. It does not boot and can not be read.

I have an image of the whole Drive saved through Acronis True Image on my Home server (taken few days before).

So, I boot the computer with the dead hard drive using the TrueImage Boot CD, and I Ghost through the Network the image.

After about 20 Min. I have again a functional Win 7 computer with the Virtual computer working well again.

What you would do if you lost the physical HD?

It's the same deal, except using VHD solution would take 1 min instead of 20 min. of recovery time. I don't know how many times I'm repeating myself but here you go again: just like you saved an image file, you save VHD file somewhere. Now, instead of restoring image file, you can simple boot from it and use it right away.

Also, instead of backing up whole partition, you only backup very small child VHD on top of parent VHD if you want to keep changes you make. Before using VHD, I usually made 3 backups of OS partition. 1st one is made after clean install of OS+driver intall+crucial programs. 2nd one is made after installing various programs and updates that I have doubts about. 3rd one is made regularly for the sake of keeping everything as it is.
The whole process takes much time and space. It was pain in the ass but I had no choice. Now with VHD, I don't need to do that. I just make one parent-VHD and any changes I make is kept on child VHD. This saves space, time and it just works so damn good. I like it so much and that it is such a simple process, I even use it instead of uninstalling programs. I install a program/codec to see if it's worth it, if it's not worth keeping it, instead of uninstalling it which will probably leave residues, I bring back child-vhd. You can do that using image files but you wouldn't want to for it takes too much time. With VHD solution, only some seconds and a simple reboot.

EDIT: Keep it mind Windows 7's built-in System Imaging Back Up utilizes VHD solution though it's not bootable by its own. This doesn't mean it's not bootable at all, you need to follow certain logical steps to make it work. I haven't tried it personally but many others have done it.

 

[JackMDS]

Virtual computers are very nice solution and I use them a lot. However they are Not a substitute to a regular Workstations.

While the server version of VPC (Hyper-V) can be a substitute to many types of real Servers, it is not the case of Workstation Virtual computer.

The Virtual computer is based on Specific Hardware Emulation that is rather old, and its Graphic card is S3, and it support very limited amount of hardware. The hardware emulation of the VPC is the same regardless of the Host hardware.

Games, and a lot of media function can not work on VPC,Network has bandwidth, and some other limitations.

If you are also using a regular workstation (Not a virtual PC) and you think that you are protected with the arrangement of the VPC, then I am afraid that it is Not so.

The capacity of Win 7 to Boot into the VPC is a nice gimmick, but it does not make the VPC a real physical workstation, it is still a VPC with all of the limitation of the VPC.

As far as the VPC per-se, there are variety of ways to back it up and use it, since it is just a File on a physical computer.

 

[Cattykit]

Virtual computers are very nice solution and I use them a lot. However they are Not a substitute to a regular Workstations.

While the server version of VPC (Hyper-V) can be a substitute to many types of real Servers, it is not the case of Workstation Virtual computer.

The Virtual computer is based on Specific Hardware Emulation that is rather old, and its Graphic card is S3, and it support very limited amount of hardware. The hardware emulation of the VPC is the same regardless of the Host hardware.

Games, and a lot of media function can not work on VPC,Network has bandwidth, and some other limitations.

If you are also using a regular workstation (Not a virtual PC) and you think that you are protected with the arrangement of the VPC, then I am afraid that it is Not so.

The capacity of Win 7 to Boot into the VPC is a nice gimmick, but it does not make the VPC a real physical workstation, it is still a VPC with all of the limitation of the VPC.

As far as the VPC per-se, there are variety of ways to back it up and use it, since it is just a File on a physical computer.

I don't have much knowledge (if any) on virtual computers but I think you're mistaken here. I'm not talking about using PC as a virtual machine. It's Virtual HDD, not VPC. None of hardwares are emulated except a partition being treated as a physical HDD. I have no problems installing hardware drivers and running them at their full speed. I do understand VHD is and can be used as part of VPC solution but my method is different. This is VHD only; not VHD based on VPC. Such limitations you mentioned is caused by VPC, not VHD.

Again, keep it mind Window 7's own System Image Backup utility creates VHD copy of the OS. When you restore your system via System Image Backup which uses VHD, do you think your restored computer is now running as VPC? Hell no, and you know it.

I know you're a informed, respected person in your area and you have much knowledge on many issues but you're very mis-informed here. Please update yourself regarding this VHD issue.

 

[Cattykit]

or move your install to another drive, that sort of thing? I only think i heard about vhd was that you could install from them...

Windows 7's installation scheme is just like restoring an image file (install.wim). All the rest is about supporting that image file to load. There's a tool you can convert wim file to vhd. From there, you can insert boot information and Windows 7 will load directly from your HDD.

Anyway, after writing all that, I think this is not what you were talking about.

Thanks for those; I was really struggling with the link catty gave. Computers may be able to beat the world chess champion, but translators can rest easy.

So if I understand those articles, you don't need the Windows VPC at all to create or work from the VHD; you are running native on the virtual disk, correct?

Also, the comments on the first one got cut off, but it sounds like not even Win7 Pro will do this, you need Ultimate or Enterprise, correct?

Correct. VHD is not VPC and when you boot from VHD, you're not on VPC; "you're running native on the virtual disk".

Correct, you need Ultimate or Enterprice.

 

[KeypoX]

sounds pretty good to bad its ultimate only