VGA card for rendering

[bigboym]

Hi,

I`m just about to order a new PC strickly for 3D professional work (3DSMAX, Photoshop, Adobe Premier etc). So far I`ve decided upon which cpu and motherboard I`m going to buy (Intel Core 2 Duo E6420 - planning to overlock this to 3GHz , ASUS P5W DH Deluxe OEM = 325$ in total). I`m only having problems choosing the right video card...sadly I don`t have enough money to buy a high end quadro or firegl card, its too damn expensive for me, although I stumbled across this : http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814195010
Is it worth it or should I buy a GeForce 8800GTS with 640MB memory?
The 8800GTS is a better card, I know, but in games...I`m not sure at all if it renders faster, because its not created for rendering.
I`m hoping that there are a few render experts out there who could help me.
Thanks

P.S.: Oh and another thing..the vga card should cost MAX 400$!

 

[bigboym]

I know I said max 400$ but if I really want to strecth my limits..and this is the absolute max, I could buy this card http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814133179 ...what do you think?

 

[bigboym]

Anyone.....?

 

[Rabidwerewolf]

Stay away from the 8800GTS. Gaming cards are not the best for modeling and editing as they are designed to play games, Direct X while as cards designed for modeling and editing are designed to fully utilize Open GL. Either one of the cards you linked to would be fine. The second card is more powerful. It depends on how much modeling and editing you will be doing.

You may want to consider this one as well if your budget is around $400 as it is 256mb of memory and is 256 bit:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814195013

 

[bigboym]

Thanks very much for your reply. My main objectivie is to model and edit, so the Quadro or the FireGL you linked are the only options for me. Oh, and another question: will I be able to play with the QuadroFX 1500? I want to play now and then...World of Warcraft..Gothic 3..like these. I will have 4GB DDR2 rams and the cpu/mobo mentioned above. Could I play these games..lets say...at 1024x768 with almost full graphics?
Thanks again!

 

[Rabidwerewolf]

You should be able too. You might have to run the card in Open GL if it doesn't play it well in 3D though. I did find some threads on people using Quadro and FireGL cards because of what they do for a living but also playing WoW. You also might have to play around and find the right drivers too.

http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiv.../index.php?t15607.html

Just keep in mind, and you probably know this already, that Quadro and FireGL cards are designed for the professional to work with CAD and some of those other you are wanting to do and are optimized to run in Open GL versus direct3D. They are not going to perform like a gaming card say like the Geforce 8800GTS, but in the same respect, those gaming cards will not perform as well in those applications you are running. You should be able to play that res and settings. I wouldn't go trying to necessarily play a direct3D intensive FPS, like F.E.A.R. and such, on it at that res with max settings though.

 

[Modelworks]

While Nvidia and ATI do market cards as "professional" you will find that there are tons of people , myself included that use the consumer level cards just fine.

I have used all the following in 3dsmax, AAvid, Maya, Mudbox without any issues, in scenes with 3 million polys. You also get the benefit of being able to play games without worrying about driver problems the pro cards might have.

7600GT
X1950
8800GT
FX5600 - a bit slow on high poly count scenes.

You can also ask around at www.cgtalk.com
Tons of industry people there that use consumer cards.

Also make sure you get Winxp X64 and not vista x64.
Most of the current graphics apps either work poorly or not at all in vista.

 

[Rabidwerewolf]

Modelworks, what are the rendering times on like say the 7600GT and 8800GT versus say the Quadro and FireGLs say on 3D Studio Max?

 

[Lord Banshee]

Rabidwerewolf and bigboym,

Let me answer ModelWorks answer to your question: Render times have nothing to do with your video card. Rendering is all done on CPU as a software rendering. There are some examples that rendering can be done on GPU such in Maya with the Quadro Gelato? i think it is called.. But in all seriousness it is just used for previewing as the results do not touch CPU rendering.

Your choice of CPU is good, better if you can get a good overclock.

For the GPU, which is used to accelerate viewports:
Are you using vista or WinXP? My results in vista and OpenGL CAD programs are no go for gamer cards. I got artifacts with my 7800Gt and X1950XT in SolidWorks and Rhino3D with both cards. In WinXP no artifacts were shown and thus is the only reason why i still have WinXP on my system is for DCC and CAD work.

If you using 3dsmax as your only 3d program i really think a gamer card will be great because 3dsmax is best with DirectX, 10x faster than OpenGL. And as we speak Nvidia nor ATI has disabled little to no features for DirectX CAD acceleration like the OpenGL Drivers.

If you like i can install my copy of 3dsmax on vista and see if i get artifacts in 3dsmax with my x1950xt but i doubt i do because i use it with directx.

I hope this helps

Also if you willing to play around and take some risks there are ways you can turn "some" gamer cards into Quadro or FireGL if not just give them the Pro acceleration. The only reason why i upgraded my 7800GT to a x1950xt was because in WinXP i can turn it into a CAD beast that thinks it is a FireGL 7350. Before that the 68xx series Nvidia geforce were able able to turn into the QuadroFX sereis. I sat "were" because they have taken action and some newer of the 6xxx chip and all 7xxx and 8xxx series are mod blocked so ATI got my money lol.


*edit* Also i did not see anything about RAM... When rendering not only is the CPU tax the most but so is the RAM I would get >= 2GB.

 

[Rabidwerewolf]

Thanks Banshee. The reason I 'm curious as well is that I am in the process of researching for parts for a new rig later on this year or early next year. I'm going into business with my brother's graphics studio company. I will be doing a good bit of graphics, 3d and web design, which is something I've been wanting to do for a long while.....just never took the time to learn about it....with him tutoring me. I've been playing around with freeware software, but he is going to purchase 3dSMax and Adobe Photoshop for me....early Christmas gift. Anyways, to make a long story short, the graphics card is the hard thing for me to decided on because I like to game too. If I can use a game oriented graphics card in my rig and still be able to work and render with the 3d and media software without loosing much time, well, that would be the way to go.

 

[Lord Banshee]

yes 3dsmax works great with gamer cards with you use the directx driver. But for your workstation stay away from vista or dual boot like me.

 

[Rabidwerewolf]

Originally posted by: Lord Banshee
yes 3dsmax works great with gamer cards with you use the directx driver. But for your workstation stay away from vista or dual boot like me.

no worries, not impressed by Vista. I've reinstalled WinXp on several clients' systems because they were so unhappy with Vista.

One other question Banshee. Does SLI or Crossfire affect rendering? I know about the ram and cpu as I did some further research after your posts. I'm assuming unless 3dSMax is optimized for SLI or Crossfire, then there is not much benefit just as in games that aren't optimized for SLI.

 

[Lord Banshee]

Again the video card isn't going to affect rendering if you have one two three... twenty. It accelerates viewport, where one makes the models, apply textures, and animate characters. Rendering is when you take a model(s) then it goes though a process of lighting, shadows, AA, depth of field, and so much more to make your creation look like Shrek or the Silver Surfer.

If it was just your choice of words and that isn't what you meant and you did mean viewport than my bad

Now to answer the question i really have to say i have no idea and you might want to ask www.cgtalk.com people. The forum is great and very talented people or among that side of the internet.

My personal opinion on this "dual card" stuff is bad and such is bais. I believe it is a waste of money as in 6-12 months you get the same power as two cards for half the price and close half the power. If you plan on getting a gamer card to do workstation work i don't think you want to complicate things even more by using a gamer design technology such as crossfire and sli. Also i heard a while ago such systems have problems with vsync and triple buffer, i am not sure this is the case today, but i like working in with vsync enabled for no screen flicker and smooth rotation and animation in viewports...

Also don't get me wrong about vista, other than CAD work i personally think it is the best OS to date. It feels faster in all areas, it is pretty lol, and i don't have any issues with drivers or errors. But for CAD work WinXP all the way for me and many many others in the industry.

I hope this advice helps, I got to do some work before i go to sleep so I'll check back this thread later to see if you have any more questions.

 

[Rabidwerewolf]

I hear you Banshee. I agree about SLI as I was never that much impressed with it when it hit the market back in late 04 and early 05. It seemed more of a marketing ploy to me just to get people to spend more money on already pricey vga cards, and not to mention, the SLI and Crossfire boards are pricey compared to the non-SLI/Crossfire ones.

I think I'll just keep an eye on the gaming cards and see what is a good one for the $$$ when I get ready to build. Thanks again for the advice. I'll pass it on to my brother. He was thinking of picking up one of those 256mb Quadro FX1500 over his 8800GTS. It will safe him some $$$ which he can put towards some more ram or just safe.

 

[Lord Banshee]

well if he has the money for the quadro FX 1500 that is a good card for 3d work. Not for gaming at all. But if the machine will only being doing 3d CAD and DCC work i would get a quadro fx 1500 over a 8800. You never know when you might run into a program that you need one of those great openGL apps such as Maya that will artifacts on gamer cards when using overlay options embedded in the UI such as paint effects.

From what it sounds like you are getting a system for 3d gaming and 3d DCC learning on 3dsmax, i would get a 8800.

Your brother sounds like he will use the machine just for 3D work i would get a quadro for his.

 

[Rabidwerewolf]

Originally posted by: Lord Banshee
well if he has the money for the quadro FX 1500 that is a good card for 3d work. Not for gaming at all. But if the machine will only being doing 3d CAD and DCC work i would get a quadro fx 1500 over a 8800. You never know when you might run into a program that you need one of those great openGL apps such as Maya that will artifacts on gamer cards when using overlay options embedded in the UI such as paint effects.

From what it sounds like you are getting a system for 3d gaming and 3d DCC learning on 3dsmax, i would get a 8800.

Your brother sounds like he will use the machine just for 3D work i would get a quadro for his.

He does mainly use his rig for 3D work, but he does occasionally play games. I let him borrow F.E.A.R. a few months ago, but he has yet to get around to playing it so that tells you right there. He has also talked about getting and using Maya too. I wonder if I can get him to give me his 8800GTS if he gets the FX1500, lol. Can't use it in my current rig, but I would be tempted to go ahead and get a new mobo and cpu if he would give me his 8800GTS.

 

[Modelworks]

Rabidwerewolf is correct.
For rendering I have used dedicated boxes with 4-16 cpus and up to 32GB of ram.
Those same boxes had just standard 2d displays ( no 3d capability) and some only had linux text only console displays.
Video card speed doesn't factor in on 3d apps final rendering.

 

[Rabidwerewolf]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
Rabidwerewolf is correct.
For rendering I have used dedicated boxes with 4-16 cpus and up to 32GB of ram.
Those same boxes had just standard 2d displays ( no 3d capability) and some only had linux text only console displays.
Video card speed doesn't factor in on 3d apps final rendering.

Actualy Banshee is correct lol. I can't take credit for that one. Thanks though Model.