K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
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Originally posted by: Butterbean
Originally posted by: K1052
What a total crock of horseshit Butterbean is posting. I don't agree that this legislation should pass, nor any like it for other classes, but his bias is showing pretty clear.
Homosexuality was deleted from the DSM in the mid 70s and there is pressure to do the same with Gender Identity Disorder. Find me a non-fundie psychologist or psychiatrist that will treat for homosexuality as a disorder and I'll eat my hat.
That article on the ACLU mentions homosexuality exactly zero times. It does however make an example of the abortion debate. I have my own issues with the ACLU (mostly 2nd Amendment related) but labeling them as a "homo group"pushing a "fetid agenda" is absurd, myopic, and insulting. They have defended everyone from the Klan to NAMBLA based on the constitutional rights they are entitled to.
Most of the studies posted have little to no bearing on the abuse causing homosexuality argument, which in my opinion and experience is totally inaccurate. The actual causes of homosexuality are still elusive. If that was the conclusive answer there would be no cause for anymore work in the field (which is still proceeding).
You are correct that homosexuality was deleted in the mid 70's - and pedophilia as a sexual perversion was deleted in 1994. Contrary to popular belief the membership of the psychological/psychiatric associations don't vote en masse about such things. Small work groups often politically motivated make such decisions and the APA and others caved to homosexual mafia along time ago. That's why they deleted child sex abuse as a disorder just to be forced to put it back in DSM as a "moral failing"
After pedophilia was dropped from DSM the APA (American Psychological Association) issued a bulletin called "A Meta-Analytic Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse Using College Samples." whose authors, Bruce Rind, et al., claimed child sexual abuse could be "harmless and beneficial".
So much for objective psychological associations. Indeed the DSM said pedophilia was only a problem if the abuser felt "conflicted". So an unconflicted abuser was healthy and normal. You can flush the APA.
Indeed the Dr responsible for dropping homosexuality from disorder list was a Dr Robert Spitzer who met with homosexual activists before altering disorder label. At the time he used Kinsey data to justify hi actions - data which has proven to be garbage. Spitzer at the time thought homosexuality "incurable" but in a recent study he reversed that opinion with other studies he conducted. Of course the homosexual groups were apoplectic.
When you say "there is PRESSURE" to drop Gender Identity Disorder from the DSM you are exactly right. Pressure - and not established science or even common sense rules the psychological associations. Its all about pretending the naked emperor has clothes on. Freud, Jung and Adler- all saw homosexuality as disordered and there is no conclusive science ever used to substantiate oitherwise.
You say studies I show have no bearing on abuse as a cause of homosexuality even though these studies and many others find abuse rates for homosexuals in the 30's and 40's. So you get an F for being able to asses studies. Most psychologists is they are honest no darn well the link between abuse and sexual disorientation are pervasive. Psychologists don't treat homosexuals because 1) the homosexual mafia will likely come to their house (they attack "ex gay" groups vigourously) 2) insurance companies wont pay for a disorder not in the DSM (and the homosexual mafia will go to ther offices if they did) 3) psychologists/psychiatrists cant even cure depression - or explain the exact cause. They are now shills for drug compnaies and political groups. Did you see the recent study showing that millions of people who lose their temper during traffic have a "disorder". Witch doctors have more integrity.
If what you say is true and the cause of homosexuality is "still elusive" then why are millions of school kids being taught its like race and the Congress passing laws? The answer is the homosexual mafia pressuring people. When you say "work in the field is progressing" that's not true at all. What's progressing are the contrived "PR"studies from places like the University of San Francisco (har har) and the hidding away of studies that illustrate the truths.
Concerning the ACLU you should know that it was the former director Ira Glasser who got the present director Anthony Romero installed. Ira Glasser is now calling for Romeros removal. He has harsh things to say:
"When the ACLU does not practice what it preaches, when the ACLU markets civil liberties principles externally but fails to live by those principles within the ACLU, it signals a disrespect for and a lack of genuine commitment to those very principles it seeks to establish. And it damages its ability to be taken seriously. Ultimately, a leadership that does not respect its own principles enough to live by them is a leadership that will over time fail to apply those principles externally? especially when doing so seems to interfere with short-term fundraising efforts. This is a triumph of marketing over substance, and over the past three years there is already evidence that it has begun to erode the ACLU?s commitment to its historic mission."
That quote is from www.savetheaclu.org website. It was created by former ACLU heavyweights who know its being hijacked and trashed by a loopy looney bird.
http://www.savetheaclu.org/?cat=8
The Times article doesn't mention the fact that there are members that dont like suing the boyscouts to forcible accept conspicuous homosexuals but it has been a thread in the huge inner struggles currently taking place. Other homosexuals like Kate Kendell, who runs the National Center for Lesbian Rights, says she got in fight to support Romero partly because of a fear that "homophobia" might be behind the fighting. ?I don?t want to engage in gay-baiting, but I would be lying if I said it hadn?t crossed my mind.? (from the article "Freedom to BAckstab" http://nymag.com/news/features/27839/ )
Freud, Adler and Jung had it right that homosexuality is a disorder. Actually nobody needs a degree to see a man's penis doesn't belong in another man's butt.
So when used to argue your position the DSM is useful and correct but with anyone else's it is badly flawed/politically motivated. Cherry picking and saying all other research (than that which can be twisted to support your views) is nothing more than useless "PR" makes it clear you are useless to argue with. If you are going to be a hateful moralistic bigot at least be up front about it.
Your infatuation with this "gay mafia" (which obviously wields incredible power) is most interesting. If the cause of homosexuality are so clear (abuse alone according to you) then why is there ANY debate at all? Oh right, the "gay mafia" is keeping any and all attempts at proving it down. I know a number (most of them in fact) of gay people who were never abused yet they are still gay...hmm.
