Veterans overwhelmingly support Bush over Kerry
- Thread starter Riprorin
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glenn1
Lifer
- Sep 6, 2000
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Well, then I guess it's a lucky break for Kerry that veterans don't comprise the entire electorate. Not like veterans are a logical voting bloc to ask in any event, since they're so dispersed throughout the population and likely have little in common in their backgrounds or political beliefs apart from a common shared experience. You might as well poll left-handed voters to see whom they support between Bush and Kerry.
If Kerry were left-handed and was appealling to people vote for him because of his left handedness, then it would be perfectly reasonable to poll left-handed voters.
Since Kerry is running largely on his 4 month stint in Vietnam over 30 years ago, don't you think it's reasonable to ask veterans who they plan on voting for?
Don Vito Corleone
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I tend to agree, actually (though I don't know that it's fair to say he is running "largely" on his combat record - that issue has substantially been one spun up by the Bush campaign, for reasons that are clear only to them).
I will say, though, that veterans on the whole tend to be overwhelmingly more Republican than not - though I don't feel like doing the homework, my guess is that veterans would have "overwhelmingly" supported the Republican candidate in every election since JFK's, and perhaps earlier. Since Vietnam, the all-volunteer military tends to attract political conservatives disproportionally, aggravating the effect. Maybe if I get a wild hair I will look it up . . .
Also, Senator Kerry's stance against the war in Vietnam (which I, as a service member, respect and appreciate) was certain to alienate a lot of servicemen. Many veterans see his conduct as disloyal, though I see it as just the opposite.
EDIT: Here is an article that provides a little more meat than this unsourced "CBS News" story.
Having once been trained to exhibit blind obedience to authority figures, vets have occasionally been known to have problems breaking that habit....
The fact that Republicans resort to the John Wayne flag-waving school of propaganda fits right in with previous conditioning....
Given the right circumstances and stimulus, an unfortunate percentage of vets will react just like Pavlov's dog...
The fact that Republicans resort to the John Wayne flag-waving school of propaganda fits right in with previous conditioning....
Given the right circumstances and stimulus, an unfortunate percentage of vets will react just like Pavlov's dog...
From that February Pew poll:
"Veterans from the survey group showed about 51.4 percent would have supported Bush while 44.1 percent supported Kerry."
"The veterans' numbers had a margin of error of plus or minus 7.5 percentage points"
What's the margin of error in the recent CBS poll? Very strange definition of "overwhelming" if you include differences within a statistical margin of error. I would tend to use something more like "inconclusive".
I suspect most veterans will vote along their usual party line splits. The only particularly interesting stat, one certainly not measured by the CBS poll, is how independent/moderate oriented veterans living in swing states will vote, and whether Kerry's Vietnam service or proposed Veteran benefit policies has any influence on that.
"Veterans from the survey group showed about 51.4 percent would have supported Bush while 44.1 percent supported Kerry."
"The veterans' numbers had a margin of error of plus or minus 7.5 percentage points"
What's the margin of error in the recent CBS poll? Very strange definition of "overwhelming" if you include differences within a statistical margin of error. I would tend to use something more like "inconclusive".
I suspect most veterans will vote along their usual party line splits. The only particularly interesting stat, one certainly not measured by the CBS poll, is how independent/moderate oriented veterans living in swing states will vote, and whether Kerry's Vietnam service or proposed Veteran benefit policies has any influence on that.
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Nice post jhhnn,
cliff notes
Kerry is not an authority figure.
Patriotism is propaganda.
54% of vets are brainless idiots.
:disgust:
All it takes is minor stimulus, and their true colors come shining through
Riprorin, in what way do you think this poll is important? Also, can you link to the poll?
(PS, I'll assume by your absense from your nobody-can't-make-an-argument-for-kerry-without-mentioning-the-other-guy thread that you concede we have shown you examples of pro-kerry arguments without referring to the other guy).
Don Vito Corleone
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Again, though, that number alone, taken out of context, means little. If the numbers were to show proportionally greater support for Bush/Cheney 04 than other Republican tickets in recent history, it might really mean something, but I doubt that's the case. This article at least provides a bit of historical context.
mastertech01
Moderator Emeritus Elite Member
- Nov 13, 1999
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Hmmm who knows? Just a flash from the past from Florida..
Governor George W Bush comfortably won the overseas absentee vote by 1,380 votes to Vice-President Al Gore's 750 but, after vigorous challenges by Gore canvassers, 1,527 of the postal ballots, many of them from soldiers and sailors on active service, were rejected.
With the two candidates just 930 votes apart, every ballot paper counts and is being intensely fought over by Democratic and Republican party officials. Gen Norman Schwarzkopf, the Gulf war commander who now lives in Florida, led Republican condemnation of a five-page guide which advised Democratic tellers how to raise objections to the postal votes. He said: "It is a very sad day in our country when the men and women of the armed forces are serving abroad and facing danger of a daily basis . . . and are denied the right to vote for the president of the United States who will be their commander in chief."
Don Vito Corleone
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Mastertech, no offense but I can't see what possible relevance your post has to this topic. Can you draw a nexus? This thread is about the voting patterns of veterans, particularly in the present election.
The alleged mishandling of active-duty absentee ballots four years ago is, it seems to me, troubling but totally unrelated. Interestingly, I am an active-duty member, and my California absentee ballot for the 2000 election (I had voted for Gore) was sent back to me due to mishandling by whomever runs elections in California.
The alleged mishandling of active-duty absentee ballots four years ago is, it seems to me, troubling but totally unrelated. Interestingly, I am an active-duty member, and my California absentee ballot for the 2000 election (I had voted for Gore) was sent back to me due to mishandling by whomever runs elections in California.
mastertech01
Moderator Emeritus Elite Member
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It was completely in regard to the poster's question for which I replied. That an accurate accounting would not be possible, and your case is one fine example. Vets can and do include active personnel.
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
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A small percentage of active-duty members != all veterans. There's no reason to think a particular lot of Florida absentee ballots of active-duty folks is representative of veterans in general (though, as I have said above, I don't doubt the lion's share of veterans are Republicans). Thanks for clarifying, though - I was probably being a little dense because I was distracted.
"This poll was conducted among a nationwide random sample of 1,113 adults"
US % of adults who are veterans is 12.7% (source), so the poll probably reached around 140 veterans. The margin of error on a sample size of 140 for a ~26 million Population size (veterans) is roughly 8% (calculate it yourself here - total veterans is roughly 26.4 million).
Sorry - a 41% / 54% split on a question with an 8% margin of error isn't terribly overwhelming in my eyes. Inconclusive with some indication of a preference for Bush would be a more accurate assessment of how those ~140 responses reflect on veterans nationwide.
If you're going to go on that unrelated tangent, don't forget the ~90,000 voters inaccurately struck from the Florida rolls before the Florida elections even happened, most of whom were black and Democrat. (hard to pick a link - throw "90,000 voters" and "florida" into google and have fun)
Jeb Bush is trying to do the same thing right now, but apparently local districts are doing their own verification of the state's "strike from the rolls" lists this time around to avoid a repeat incident of illegally depriving citizens of their right to vote.
[edit: typo]
From a Zogby poll:
Q. Who would do a better job of dealing with Al Qaeda, Saddam Hussein, Moammar Gaddafi, North Korea and Iran? George W. Bush or John Kerry?
Fifty-percent of voters said Bush would do a better job compared to the 33% of voters who felt John Kerry would do a better job. Fifty-eight percent of current military members and 53% of veterans feel that Bush would do a better job while 32% of current military members and 27% of veterans gave the nod to Kerry.
Again, veterans favor Bush over Kerry.
Q. Who would do a better job of dealing with Al Qaeda, Saddam Hussein, Moammar Gaddafi, North Korea and Iran? George W. Bush or John Kerry?
Fifty-percent of voters said Bush would do a better job compared to the 33% of voters who felt John Kerry would do a better job. Fifty-eight percent of current military members and 53% of veterans feel that Bush would do a better job while 32% of current military members and 27% of veterans gave the nod to Kerry.
Again, veterans favor Bush over Kerry.
So what? Why is this important?
(Also, your sentence overly simplifies the situation. More veterans favor Bush over Kerry. Your sentence makes it sound like they all do).
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