Veteran on the US "liberation" of Iraq

[GrGr]

...

?You have to look at what was the overall goal of the mission. That was pretty evident when, eight months before we even left to go to Kuwait, the Marines were training to shut down and take over the Ar Rumaylah oil fields. We had detailed schematics and terrain models of all of the oil fields outside of Basra, and once we took care of those, all that was left was the ride into Baghdad.

?We were like a bunch of cowboys who rode into town shooting up the place. I saw charred bodies in vehicles that were clearly not military vehicles. I saw people dead on the side of the road in civilian clothes. As a matter of fact, I only remember seeing a couple of bodies in military uniform the whole time.

?There wasn?t a whole lot of direct fighting to speak of. There were some firefights?I mean I had bullet holes in the side of my Humvee?but it wasn?t like major combat action. We took the highway the whole way up to Baghdad. They had no artillery; they had no air support. They were so weakened by all the sanctions. All of their equipment was in very bad shape. Most of their hardware was left over from the war against Iran. The first Gulf War just devastated them. I don?t think they had the will or the opportunity to fight.?

Massey said that the hostility of the Iraqi people to the presence of the US military grew exponentially over the time he was there in direct response to the brutal methods employed by American troops against the entire Iraqi population.

?As far as I?m concerned, the real war did not begin until they saw us murdering innocent civilians,? he said. ?I mean, they were witnessing their loved ones being murdered by US Marines. It?s kind of hard to tell someone that they are being liberated when they just saw their child shot or lost their husband or grandmother.?

Massey manned a number of US military checkpoints on Iraqi highways in the months following the invasion. He described how, when cars failed to stop, out of confusion or otherwise, the order was to ?light them up? or open fire. It was at one of the checkpoints that Massey?s attitude toward the war reached its turning point.

?We signaled a car to stop and when it didn?t we opened fire. They were innocent civilians. We found no weapons, no explosives?nothing. Somehow, and I have no idea how he could have done it, but one guy got out of the car and he wasn?t badly wounded. He was the brother of one of the men bleeding to death in the car. He looked at me and asked, ?Why did you kill my brother. What did he do to you?? There were 30-plus civilians killed over two days at these checkpoints.?

Massey described the chaotic and reckless character of the roadside checkpoints and the indifference of the military leadership to the culture of the people that they were there supposedly to help.

?When you put your hand up in the air with a closed fist, in the Marines it means you want them to stop,? he said. ?But, as we later learned, it?s actually the international sign of solidarity. It has a totally different meaning for the Iraqis?to them it was a sign like hello. And that was just one example of how we were not trained properly to understand the cultural differences between us and them.

...

?We actually left all of the humanitarian MRE?s [Meals Ready to Eat] in Kuwait,? he recalled. ?We were supposed to give these out for relief, and we left them in Kuwait. They were just for show when the film crews came into the camps. We also had this big show with the medical supplies that we were prepping for Iraqi casualties. We were supposed to get in there and take care of them.

?But I?ll give you an example of what we actually did. After we shot up this car with civilians, I called in the corpsmen to bring in stretchers. They came in and put two men on stretchers. Five minutes later, they brought them back and dumped their bodies on the side of the road. They were still alive. They were riddled with bullets?one guy was just rolling in agony on the side of the road.?

At the time, intelligence reports were streaming in describing insurgents and rebels driving ambulances and civilian cars. In a growing atmosphere of fear within US military ranks, the entire Iraqi population was now viewed as the enemy.

?We?re thinking everyone is a terrorist,? Massey recalled. ?Here we are on no sleep, and there are intelligence reports coming in right and left about suicide attacks and the Republican Guard and so on?attacks being mounted against American forces. So cars come driving through our checkpoints, and our orders are to light them up. The amazing thing about it is that we were telling the Iraqis the exact opposite. We were telling them to keep their schools open, keep the hospitals open, to go about their normal routine??we?re not here to hurt you, we?re just here to overthrow Saddam.? So these people were just doing their normal routines, and they were getting frickin? blasted for it.?

...

link

 

[Alistar7]

Good for you, you found one person who agrees with your opinion, here's a

Of course alot of that is not even a factual account of policy or even widespread troop attitudes and activities. I can give you a TON of links that show how US servicemen healed the wounded, handed out relief supplies of food, water, medicine, etc....

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
Good for you, you found one person who agrees with your opinion, here's a

Of course alot of that is not even a factual account of policy or even widespread troop attitudes and activities. I can give you a TON of links that show how US servicemen healed the wounded, handed out relief supplies of food, water, medicine, etc....

So should we give you a TON of cookies for your links since they agree with you?

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Alistar7
Good for you, you found one person who agrees with your opinion, here's a

Of course alot of that is not even a factual account of policy or even widespread troop attitudes and activities. I can give you a TON of links that show how US servicemen healed the wounded, handed out relief supplies of food, water, medicine, etc....

So should we give you a TON of cookies for your links since they agree with you?

Nope, just because they are FACTUAL, not based on OPINION.

 

[Tab]

The article is a bit too unbelievable for meh... I am sure US Soliders are murdering Iraqs on purpose :roll:

 

[Beowulf]

It's war baby ppl die I don't expect anything more or anything less except us winning in the end.

 

[Fingolfin269]

This is one case where I would prefer anecdotal evidence over someone's article linking. None of my friends who are/were in Iraq have said anything remotely similar to what this article reports.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: Tabb
The article is a bit too unbelievable for meh... I am sure US Soliders are murdering Iraqs on purpose :roll:

No, they are TERRORISTS and MURDERERS fighting Bush's ILLEGAL and IMMORAL war for OIL and to OPPRESS the people of Iraq, evil HITLER like stuff baby......

 

[fornax]

Factual? Ha-ha! Would those be from the "embedded" propaganda writers, from the Western journalists who are afraid to go out of their hotels rooms (because of the liberty and security we brought to Iraq), or from the Pentagon's own propaganda department? May be it would be that "factual" template letter (about how we're liberating the poor Iraqis) composed by one of the propaganda boys and then ordered sent home by the troops? And what is "opinion" in this soldier's description: the fact that they were killing civilians, that they dumped wounded people by the road and left them die, or that the rations and medicine were for display purposes only? I'm sure you'll point me to a "factual" report on the TV showing the rations filmed in Kuwait and how they were meant to help the hungry Iraqis Did you read the report from the CIA agent responsible for catching bin Ladden that the CIA's propaganda department was better staffed and equipped than his team that was supposed to track and catch Ossama? Those must be the guys and gals producing the "factual" reports that got us into this mess to begin with. Make sure you tighten the ring in your nose, Alistar7, and follow obediently the sheep and assorted cattle led to the regular brainwashing session.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: fornax
Factual? Ha-ha! Would those be from the "embedded" propaganda writers, from the Western journalists who are afraid to go out of their hotels rooms (because of the liberty and security we brought to Iraq), or from the Pentagon's own propaganda department? May be it would be that "factual" template letter (about how we're liberating the poor Iraqis) composed by one of the propaganda boys and then ordered sent home by the troops? And what is "opinion" in this soldier's description: the fact that they were killing civilians, that they dumped wounded people by the road and left them die, or that the rations and medicine were for display purposes only? I'm sure you'll point me to a "factual" report on the TV showing the rations filmed in Kuwait and how they were meant to help the hungry Iraqis Did you read the report from the CIA agent responsible for catching bin Ladden that the CIA's propaganda department was better staffed and equipped than his team that was supposed to track and catch Ossama? Those must be the guys and gals producing the "factual" reports that got us into this mess to begin with. Make sure you tighten the ring in your nose, Alistar7, and follow obediently the sheep and assorted cattle led to the regular brainwashing session.

Feel free to take a look around at links I have posted. I am not brainwashed, I find out the facts and deal with them, what else can you do.....

 

[Alistar7]

"Massey said that the hostility of the Iraqi people to the presence of the US military grew exponentially over the time he was there in direct response to the brutal methods employed by American troops against the entire Iraqi population. "

Iwould call that opinion, unless he has spoken with all 25,000,000+ Iraqis.


?As far as I?m concerned, the real war did not begin until they saw us murdering innocent civilians,?

That would also be an opinion.

Massey described the chaotic and reckless character of the roadside checkpoints and the indifference of the military leadership to the culture of the people that they were there supposedly to help.


I didnt realize he worked at every roadside checkpoint 24 hours a day and was directly dealing with every department of military leadership, he must be tired, otherwise that is also his opinion.

"In a growing atmosphere of fear within US military ranks, the entire Iraqi population was now viewed as the enemy."

Damn that dude was BUSY, he was even aware of the perception of every military group.


?We?re thinking everyone is a terrorist,? Massey recalled.

He knows all I guess, how every American and Iraqi thinks and feels. This is his perspective based on his exposure and he is certainly entitled to it, but it is not official administration policy even an accurate description of overall troop activity.

 

[conjur]

An article from May 2003 on Staff Sgt. Jimmy Massey
http://www.smokymountainnews.c...5_26_04/fr_massey.html

Former Marine Staff Sgt. Jimmy Massey was honorably discharged from the Corps in December 2003 after 12 years of active duty. Diagnosed with depression and post-traumatic stress disorder, he came home to live in Waynesville. His military tours included training infantry soldiers at boot camp in Parris Island, S.C., acting as a Marine recruiter in Waynesville and Sylva, and participating in the invasion of Baghdad during April and May of 2003.

Massey?s discharge proceedings began when he questioned the killing of civilians in Iraq. During the U.S.-led invasion in the spring of 2003 Massey suddenly came to doubt his mission. He says the killing of innocent civilians in which he took part changed him. He also believes America?s ability to complete its mission in Iraq has been compromised from the beginning ? since those first days when troops rolled into Baghdad more than a year ago? because of faulty intelligence that led to civilian deaths, said Massey.

Now he?s telling his story to reporters around the world. He estimates he?s given 35 interviews over the last few months, both in the local newspapers, papers like the Sacramento Bee in California, and to international media outlets such as the BBC. He?s currently working on a book with a French journalist from New York. We interviewed him in Waynesville at the public library.



Q: Tell me about the story of the civilian deaths that is recounted in the Sacramento Bee article.

A: I had actually forgotten about this. I had it repressed in my mind. I am writing a book. A French journalist is helping me with the structure of it. She drove down here after the story in The Mountaineer. She investigated and found out it was true. ...

I am waiting to get into VA so I can start my therapy, but process takes a long time with the VA and everything. That was an incident I remembered, the shooting of the civilians. It?s been a healing process for me, trying to heal myself talking about it and putting it in a memoir text.

The straw that broke the camel?s back was an incident right outside of Baghdad. We had just taken a security position, we had actually just taken out some bad guys, so the platoon was in high morale because we had shot some bad guys. In doing that, we saved a battalion from an RPG (rocket-propelled grenade) attack. The men were pretty stoked and were trying to forget about yesterday?s scenario with the civilian casualties and everything.

... This red Kia came into our area, and we fired a warning shot. They didn?t stop. I won?t say the Marine Corps did not take adequate steps. We did all within our power. I don?t fault the Marine Corps. It?s the intelligence reports that led to the kind of mass hysteria that led to the genocidal type of atmosphere that was prevalent. And that?s what it felt like, like we were just mass exterminating Iraqis.

The Kia came into our area, and they went past our signs in Arabic saying ?stop, halt.? We fired warning shots, they didn?t stop. We opened up on them with 50-caliber and M-16s and 240s.

There were four people in the car, and the vehicle came to a stop about 50 meters in front of my Humvee. Somehow the driver managed to escape the bullets, to this day I don?t know how, whether Allah, or Buddah or God was looking after him. We went up and started pulling bodies out, they were shot up pretty bad, still alive but expiring pretty fast.

The one gentleman who survived came out, wailing and flailing his arms, sitting on the curb covering his face and crying. He got up, by that time the corpsmen was there doing CPR, and he looked up at me. ?Why did you kill my brother? He did not do anything to you.?

It just hit me like a ton of bricks. What in the hell are we doing, what are we doing, what are we accomplishing? Not more than five minutes ago we were taking out bad guys, and we?re now killing civilians.



Q: So from the time the U.S. military started going into Baghdad, you immediately saw some actions that turned a lot of Iraqi people against us?

A: Yes, I hate to say it, but it was like turning a bunch of pit bulls loose on a cage full of rabbits. You got Marines hyped up by 9-11 propaganda, by Saddam saying he was going to use chemical weapons against us, that the streets were gonna run red. You know, there?s no match for a squad of Marines. A squad of Marines are devastating with the amount of firepower and destructions that?s available.

You know, Marines are dehumanized from boot camp, desensitized to the killing. The Marine Corps says their job is to instill intangible traits into their recruits, such as self-discipline, self-confidence, honor, courage and commitment. What they fail to realize is that once you train a person with a warrior mentality, once you desensitize them to death, violence and destruction, and then place them in an environment such as Iraq, it also becomes a Jekyl and Hyde mentality. One minute you?re passing out candy to a little kid, 10 minutes later you?re opening fire on a vehicle with women and children. And the Iraqis saw that, they saw the evil side to Americans. And we set ourselves up for failure from the beginning.


Q: Were there any gratifying aspects to what you did while over there?

A: Oh yeah, there were. We killed lots of bad guys.

Once, and I still have the note, there was this little girl in Baghdad, near the university. We pulled into what looked like a women?s homeless shelter. We parked our Humvee and got out, and these people were so loving. They were giving us flowers. This little girl kept staring at me, and she was waving and smiling. She picked up a piece of paper and she came running downstairs and wrote, ?Hi, I love you, God bless America.? It was so powerful.

And then, after reading something like that, we were probably killing some of her innocent relatives. Maybe that?s why she?s in a shelter.



Q: With Memorial Day coming up, how do you feel about the holiday, our country, the soldiers still there and this war?

A: I fear for their lives and for my life. America is in a dark time. The country is divided. I do keep in contact with one Marine who is in Iraq right now, but I don?t tell him anything about what is going on here. I don?t tell him about the mindset. His job while he?s over there is to support the president of the United States. The men and women who are over there need all the mental and physical courage they can muster, to do the job they have to do.

I used to tell my Marines our job is not to be over here playing politician, our job is to secure Iraq for a free market democracy, and that?s what we?ll do. However, I felt what I saw, I didn?t see any way for America to accomplish that. When I became vocal about that, the Marine Corps did not like what I had to say.


Q: How?d you get out of the Marines after these incidents?

A: I went to regimental sergeant major. He?s in charge of about 3,500 marines, and he called me into his office. He said, ?I understand the situation and your feelings about Iraq, but we?re going to go ahead and move you into a different job. We?re going to give you a cushy job. You?ve only got seven more years to retire and you?ve got a lot built up in your career.?

... I told him, ?Thank you sergeant major, I don?t want your money anymore. I don?t want your benefits. You killed some civilians, and you?re gonna have to live with it partner, and I?m gonna tell the truth.? He didn?t like that. He said, ?Well, there might be some judicial proceedings that follow.? I said I accept that, and he didn?t need me for anything else I?d like to be dismissed.

I went straight down to the PX and bought copy a of the Marine Corps Times, and in the back they have advertisements for military lawyers. I put my finger on the name of Mr. Gary Myers in Washington, D.C. ... I gave him the number to the sergeant major and to the psychiatrist I was seeing. He called me and said ?I think they see crystal clear what you are trying to achieve, and I don?t think there will be any problem.? If I didn?t hire a lawyer, I wouldn?t be sitting here talking to you. I?d be in a brig.



Q: As time has gone on, more questions are being raised about whether the Iraqis will ever support what Americans are trying to do. How difficult is that going to be?

A: I mean, well, I?m not a politician, I?m just a good-old boy. But you?re asking an Iraqi that probably just lost an innocent loved one to the American military, and now you?re asking them to submit to this democracy that is being imposed on them, and a lot of them are resentful. They are bitter about their loved ones being killed. They had makeshift morgues over there, and bodies were piled upon bodies on the truck beds, just packed, and the civilians in the area said it was from the airstrikes. It was so bad that the body tissue was just oozing out of the crevices of the truck.

I understand there are loopholes in the Geneva Conventions and loopholes in the rules of engagement. However, I?m not going to kill innocent civilians for no government. If you want to go head to head in battle with men in uniform, I?m all for it. I would still be in the Marines. However, I was taught and raised by parents and relatives that there are certain moral things you don?t do, and killing innocent civilians is one of them.



Q: Will we be able to succeed in Iraq?

A: I?m not going to sit here and play armchair quarterback. I don?t have all the answers. I spent 12 years in an organization and I feel I did my best. I have different ways of looking at things because of my worldly travels. I?m not going to play armchair quarterback to the government. I?m just saying how I feel. People can take it with grain of salt, or hear it, or apply it to themselves and make them a better person. There was no need for what we did over there, there was no need.

As I?ve been telling this story, I?ve gotten lots of positive response. I?ve also gotten hate mail, people telling me ?You?re destroying America, violating the code of silence.? People like that need to turn off the idiot box.

 

[Fingolfin269]

I am writing a book

Ah ha!

 

[Tarpon6]

Yes veterans can be against the war. There are plenty of veterans who support the war. I love it when liberals finaly find a veteran against the war and they jump up and down and act like they found "the one".

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Tarpon6
Yes veterans can be against the war. There are plenty of veterans who support the war. I love it when liberals finaly find a veteran against the war and they jump up and down and act like they found "the one".

This guy is far from the first.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Tarpon6
Yes veterans can be against the war. There are plenty of veterans who support the war. I love it when liberals finaly find a veteran against the war and they jump up and down and act like they found "the one".

This guy is far from the first.

He was definately preceeded by John Kerry.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Tarpon6
Yes veterans can be against the war. There are plenty of veterans who support the war. I love it when liberals finaly find a veteran against the war and they jump up and down and act like they found "the one".

This guy is far from the first.

He was definately preceeded by John Kerry.

And Gen. Clark.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Tarpon6
Yes veterans can be against the war. There are plenty of veterans who support the war. I love it when liberals finaly find a veteran against the war and they jump up and down and act like they found "the one".

This guy is far from the first.

I'm sure there were plenty of nazi soldiers who were totally behind their efforts, and probably quite a few that had qualms about some aspects of their duties.

 

[Tarpon6]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Tarpon6
Yes veterans can be against the war. There are plenty of veterans who support the war. I love it when liberals finaly find a veteran against the war and they jump up and down and act like they found "the one".

This guy is far from the first.

Where did I say he was the first? Nowhere.

 

[Passions]

What a crybaby dissenter. Un-Patriotic baboon trying to profit with a book. Haaaaaaaaaa! I can't even believe half of the things he spewed.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Passions
What a crybaby dissenter.

Is that what you said about the founding fathers when they dissented against the crown?

 

[judasmachine]

He found one willing to talk. Most dumb soldiers wouldn't dare bite the hand that feeds them, as they are trained that way, like dogs.

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Alistar7
Good for you, you found one person who agrees with your opinion, here's a

Of course alot of that is not even a factual account of policy or even widespread troop attitudes and activities. I can give you a TON of links that show how US servicemen healed the wounded, handed out relief supplies of food, water, medicine, etc....

So should we give you a TON of cookies for your links since they agree with you?

Nope, just because they are FACTUAL, not based on OPINION.

Heh. The irony is strong with this one.

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Tarpon6
Yes veterans can be against the war. There are plenty of veterans who support the war. I love it when liberals finaly find a veteran against the war and they jump up and down and act like they found "the one".

This guy is far from the first.

I'm sure there were plenty of nazi soldiers who were totally behind their efforts, and probably quite a few that had qualms about some aspects of their duties.

While the American military is making life worse in Iraq, it's over the top absurdity to compare them to the Nazis.

 

[xyyz]

bwahahahaha!!!!

sorry... i know this wasn't constructive to this thread, but it was just a funny, and clever response.