Vet lobbies to have christmas ornaments removed from christmas trees

[TechBoyJK]

What a typical Grinch!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,580959,00.html?test=latestnews

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There's no place for angels atop Christmas trees, according to one California man who successfully lobbied for the removal of religious symbols at county buildings after spotting a yuletide decoration last week.

Stars and other religious emblems were ordered removed from Christmas trees in all government buildings in Sonoma County on Monday following a complaint by Irv Sutley, a disabled 65-year-old Marine veteran who said the symbols were "extremely offensive" and part of the "cult" of Christianity.

"I just don't believe government has the right to intrude on anyone and force them into sectarian behavior," Sutley told FoxNews.com. "I've opposed Buddhist statues, the star of David — anything of a religious nature."

Sutley said he filed the complaint with acting County Administrator Chris Thomas on Dec. 18 after noticing an angel atop a six-foot tree in the lobby of the county recorder's office. Sutley, a lifelong atheist and chairman of the county's Peace and Freedom Party, said he visited the office last week for his re-election bid next June.

Sutley said the angel violated previous court rulings concerning holiday displays, including a 1989 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that found that government-sponsored Christmas trees decorated with religious symbols constitute an illegal endorsement of Christian doctrine.

Sutley said he was pleased with a subsequent e-mail sent by Thomas to managers of all 26 county departments instructing them to remove religious symbols like angels and stars from holiday displays.

Jim Toomey, a public information officer for Sonoma County, confirmed the removal.

"To avoid any controversy and to satisfy this gentleman's concerns, the ornaments were removed," said Toomey, adding that he knew of no prior complaints concerning the holiday display.

Sutley, of Santa Rosa, said he's pleased with Thomas' directive, but said his work might not yet be done. The veteran previously led successful efforts to stop prayers at government meetings in nearby cities and forced Rohnert Park to redesign its city emblem due to religious symbols.

He now intends to ask county officials to remove a steel cross near Ernie Smith Park in Sonoma that serves as a memorial to an accident victim.

"It was put up privately without a permit," Sutley said. "It shouldn't be there."
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It's christmas! They are christmas trees! Not "holiday trees"? It's not ok to have a christmas ornament on a christmas tree, but its ok to have the christmas tree?"

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

I saw this article earlier this morning. Before I even read it, I knew it happened in California.

Political Correctness strikes again. Nevermind what other people might have felt, it was all about this one guy and his issues! :\

 

[Patranus]

All of this is so far out of control it isn't even funny. How does public displays of religious symbols constitute the federal government establishing a national religion?

 

[Jaskalas]

It should be argued that adhering to one man’s wish against the will of the majority constitutes the establishment and enforcement of atheism.

 

[Vette73]

All of this is so far out of control it isn't even funny. How does public displays of religious symbols constitute the federal government establishing a national religion?

I know you are pretty dumb... but really?


It is on Gov property. If this was on a persons house then no problem.


And they, the city, did have a option. Allow other items to be put up. That includes islam, pagans, satanist, etc... Many cities have done this and is was ok/

 

[hal2kilo]

My pets have only got hold of an ornament once or twice. I caught them before they ate em. I just don't understand why the Vets had to create a lobby over this.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

If I was at a office like that, I'd comply with the directive to remove the stars and angels and replace them with cards giving the name, address, phone number and, email of Irv Sutley. I'd be sure to let all my visitors know who to thank for the lack of decorations.

 

[fskimospy]

Why does this soldier hate America?

 

[shiner]

Sounds like a great plot for an episode of South Park.

Hey...wait a minute........

 

[HumblePie]

Yay for separation of Church and State!

The guy didn't say the tree couldn't be decorated, it just couldn't be decorated with RELIGIOUS emblems. If people just put up lace, lights, balls, and tinsel then it would be no problem at all. You can still have a decorated tree for the holidays and enjoy it without having to shove Christianity down the throats of everyone else around you.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

I know you are pretty dumb... but really?


It is on Gov property. If this was on a persons house then no problem.


And they, the city, did have a option. Allow other items to be put up. That includes islam, pagans, satanist, etc... Many cities have done this and is was ok/

Are you that dumb. Constitution is FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. Not State, County, Parish, or City.

I don't worship any diety and subscribe to any religion, but I think it's fucking assinine for the minority in situations like this to be able to force their views on the majority. Why is it not OK to show religious symbols but it's ok to mock them and call them a "cult". The only cult mentality that is in this article is this idiot's cult of Athiesm.

He's also a piss poor Marine:
This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I master my life. My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will....

My rifle and myself know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit...

My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weakness, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will keep my rifle clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will...

Before God I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life. So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but Peace.

 

[Ns1]

"I just don't believe government has the right to intrude on anyone and force them into sectarian behavior"

wow, a star on top of a tree forces you into sectarian behavior.

THE POWER OF CHRIST COMPELS YOU

 

[MrEgo]

People get too worked up about shit. Why doesn't he just go and set up a tree with non-angel decorations at the top?

I'm an Atheist and I think he needs to relax.

 

[Vette73]

Are you that dumb. Constitution is FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. Not State, County, Parish, or City.

.

Quoting for self ownage.



Haha... so let me get this. You don;t believe the FEDERAL Constitution is above State/local law???

 

[jonks]

Quoting for self ownage.



Haha... so let me get this. You don;t believe the FEDERAL Constitution is above State/local law???

when the constitution was written, it essentially did only apply to the fed govt and not state govt. However, most of the amendments have been incorporated against the states for decades, including the 1st.

 

[CitizenKain]

Quoting for self ownage.



Haha... so let me get this. You don;t believe the FEDERAL Constitution is above State/local law???

No, he's a states rightist, you know the kind of people who want to bring back lynching.

 

[Moonbeam]

Cristman is Christ's mass. I would think it is a religious holiday. I think a Christman tree should have Christian symbols on it. I don't worship at the Christmas tree. I have one to celebrate Christmas. Nobody is forced to be celebrative just because there's a Christmas tree somewhere. We should have Atheistmas day where you celebrate around a tree hung with turds. Fuck folk who can't handle symbols. They are sticks and stones and you were instructed, countless times in kindergarten to get over yourselves.

We get Christmas once a year and 364 days of fuck you the rest of the year. What's the problem?

 

[jonks]

Fuck folk who can't handle symbols.

the same folks who think xmas decorations and the 10 commandments pose no problems on gov't property seem to have lots of problems with the burning of the us flag in protest. seems lots of people can't handle symbols.

 

[Moonbeam]

A disabled vet bitter about Christman. Too bad somebody doesn't nail him in his wheelchair to a tree. Maybe in 2000 years some other asshole will demand the wheelchair symbol be removed from the top of the IverSutleymas tree.

 

[jonks]

A disabled vet bitter about Christman. Too bad somebody doesn't nail him in his wheelchair to a tree. Maybe in 2000 years some other asshole will demand the wheelchair symbol be removed from the top of the IverSutleymas tree.

no more eggnog for you

 

[Moonbeam]

the same folks who think xmas decorations and the 10 commandments pose no problems on gov't property seem to have lots of problems with the burning of the us flag in protest. seems lots of people can't handle symbols.

No big surprise. Processing symbolic ideas requires a modicum of intelligence.

 

[Moonbeam]

no more eggnog for you

Not eggnog. I just got back from the Alleric Ruins where I had to bludgeon to death the Abominable Grinch with my mace and I'm in a bad mood.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Are you that dumb. Constitution is FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. Not State, County, Parish, or City.

...

Before God I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life. So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but Peace.

Are you that dumb? Incorporation.

As to the second part, Article VI. So again, you're an idiot.

 

[dahunan]

Cristman is Christ's mass. I would think it is a religious holiday. I think a Christman tree should have Christian symbols on it. I don't worship at the Christmas tree. I have one to celebrate Christmas. Nobody is forced to be celebrative just because there's a Christmas tree somewhere. We should have Atheistmas day where you celebrate around a tree hung with turds. Fuck folk who can't handle symbols. They are sticks and stones and you were instructed, countless times in kindergarten to get over yourselves.

We get Christmas once a year and 364 days of fuck you the rest of the year. What's the problem?

Then can we all start putting up pictures and comics of Mohamed to celebrate Ramadan? You first

 

[HumblePie]

Cristman is Christ's mass. I would think it is a religious holiday. I think a Christman tree should have Christian symbols on it. I don't worship at the Christmas tree. I have one to celebrate Christmas. Nobody is forced to be celebrative just because there's a Christmas tree somewhere. We should have Atheistmas day where you celebrate around a tree hung with turds. Fuck folk who can't handle symbols. They are sticks and stones and you were instructed, countless times in kindergarten to get over yourselves.

We get Christmas once a year and 364 days of fuck you the rest of the year. What's the problem?

Man you are dumb...

Where do you think a "tree symbol" came from? Look, Christmas has NOTHING to do with Yeshua of Nazereth. Besides, I refuse to call him by the stupid greek title given him later. Anyhow, the tree was based off a non christian symbol of the green to come after the harsh winter. It was an older german thing to do as part of the winter festival, or winter solstice of whatever else it may have originally been long before Christians in this country all decided it was their celebration and theirs alone.

Have you ever heard the song Tannenbaum? The original german song, long before it was gutted and converted by Christian carolers, was a song about looking forward to getting past winter and into the glory of spring and summer again.

Also, for your info Weihnachtsbaum is actual german for Christmas tree, NOT Tannenbaum as the song was original written.

So no, the Tannenbaum was not meant to have been decorated with Christian religious symbols. Just because you grew up that way doesn't make it so for everyone else.