Very scary time for young men in America

[Blackjack200]

She could have done a few simple things more to pass along consent withdrawal. simply saying stop, or no, or yelling STOP, GET THE FUCK OFF OF ME. way better at just saying, "i don't think this is going to work" and then nothing else. Shit slapping him, scratching at his face would be even better. This is stuff i expect people to do to try and get out of bad situations.

Okay champ, if you were having sex with a woman and she said "I don't think this is going to work", what would you do?

 

[JoeBleed]

Okay champ, if you were having sex with a woman and she said "I don't think this is going to work", what would you do?

Change positions and see, by her actions, if she's good. by her statement she did nothing. We don't know if what i just said is what happened.

Folks also need to consider you're probably looking at this story and applying your adult and life long experience to two horny minors.

That good for you champ?

 

[Blackjack200]

Change positions and see, by her actions, if she's good. by her statement she did nothing. We don't know if what i just said is what happened.

Folks also need to consider you're probably looking at this story and applying your adult and life long experience to two horny minors.

That good for you champ?

LMAO.

 

[JoeBleed]

LMAO.

sorry, i didn't grow up in the age on consent contracts and confirming consent by strict verbal agreement every 30-60 seconds. Body language and words such as no, stop, quit, get the fuck off of me, are important.

You know what else she didn't say, were hear arms still wrapped around him and her scratching her back the whole time? Did she really go dead fish?

how many consent contracts do you have filed and how long is your retention period?

Edit: and yes, i have been told this isn't going to work. that was the first time in the back seat of a car. you know what happened? We switched up and got back to the fun. you saying i raped someone from this?

 

[mikeymikec]

nvm

 

[Blackjack200]

sorry, i didn't grow up in the age on consent contracts and confirming consent by strict verbal agreement every 30-60 seconds. Body language and words such as no, stop, quit, get the fuck off of me, are important.

You know what else she didn't say, were hear arms still wrapped around him and her scratching her back the whole time? Did she really go dead fish?

how many consent contracts do you have filed and how long is your retention period?

Jesus Christ. By the way, she never said she was "scratching his back". She said she dug her nails into his back. It's very telling that you made that substitution, it says a lot about how you read her account.

Edit: and yes, i have been told this isn't going to work. that was the first time in the back seat of a car. you know what happened? We switched up and got back to the fun. you saying i raped someone from this?

From the account: Dawson’s Creek alumna recalls, she was only able to “get out” a simple “I don’t think this is gonna work … He didn’t say anything about it not working. He just kept doing it.

Hmm, if only I could find the difference between what you did and her account of what he did.

 

[JoeBleed]

Jesus Christ. By the way, she never said she was "scratching his back". She said she dug her nails into his back. It's very telling that you made that substitution, it says a lot about how you read her account.



From the account: Dawson’s Creek alumna recalls, she was only able to “get out” a simple “I don’t think this is gonna work … He didn’t say anything about it not working. He just kept doing it.

Hmm, if only I could find the difference between what you did and her account of what he did.

And still you're only looking at one side of the story and applying adult and life experience to two horny teenagers.

 

[mikeymikec]

Saying "i don't think this is going to work" doesn't seem like a consent withdrawal.

Okay champ, if you were having sex with a woman and she said "I don't think this is going to work", what would you do?

Change positions and see, by her actions, if she's good.

You can't admit that you would pay attention to your sexual partner's cues in such a scenario and then talk about how it's crazy today with making sure you have consent every x seconds.

And still you're only looking at one side of the story and applying adult and life experience to two horny teenagers.

And you're willing to take her side of the story only insofar as finding ways to criticise her. The only consistency in your approach to this argument is your sympathetic bias towards the guy despite the evidence to the contrary.

At this point, some dickheads on this forum would respond to me saying something along the lines of convicting him with no evidence, to which I'd remind them for the umpteenth time in this thread that having an opinion is not in any way similar to acting as a juror, since one can have an opinion without it having any bearing or effect on anything or anyone.

 

[Blackjack200]

And still you're only looking at one side of the story and applying adult and life experience to two horny teenagers.

We only have one side of the story. Partly for that reason, I'm not interested in excusing or condemning this guy's behavior. The reason I'm arguing this point is because her account is being mocked as an example of a woman regretting a sexual encounter and coping with that regret by accusing the man of assault.

My point is that by her account she was violated. The people in this thread that are criticizing her cannot admit that, so this conversation, like many other conversations about sexual assault, can't really go any further than that.

 

[JoeBleed]

You can't admit that you would pay attention to your sexual partner's cues in such a scenario and then talk about how it's crazy today with making sure you have consent every x seconds.

And you're willing to take her side of the story only insofar as finding ways to criticise her. The only consistency in your approach to this argument is your sympathetic bias towards the guy despite the evidence to the contrary.

At this point, some dickheads on this forum would respond to me saying something along the lines of convicting him with no evidence, to which I'd remind them for the umpteenth time in this thread that having an opinion is not in any way similar to acting as a juror, since one can have an opinion without it having any bearing or effect on anything or anyone.

The joke about consent contracts isn't new. shit, it was around when i was in high school in the early 90s. The point is that some people have differences in opinions on cues. Some people are saying today we should teach young boys not to rape. how about we teach young girls how to say NO and or STOP. Both would be useful.

I'm willing to listen to her side of the story; but you don't seem to want to hear his side of the story. Which no one seems to ask for. Her story sounds odd. You and a few others here seem perfectly fine accepting on her side of the story. I'm not. Nor should our justice system. Yet you call it my "sympathetic bias towards the guy despite the evidence to the contrary" One, i say you have a bias, one in which believe her story and not care about what the guy has to say. two, what evidence; it's only a statement she wrote in a book.

haha, juror. you know, i feel sorry for both the victim and defendant of any trial if you're on the jury.

The sad fact is, she either had some really shitty parents or worse yet, she was molested as a child. The later would be my guess. While possible i suppose, i've never met someone that throught unbuckling a guys pants and grabbing his dick being a good way to say howdy.

 

[Blackjack200]

The sad fact is, she either had some really shitty parents or worse yet, she was molested as a child. The later would be my guess. While possible i suppose, i've never met someone that throught unbuckling a guys pants and grabbing his dick being a good way to say howdy.

Wow, you're a real shithead.

 

[JoeBleed]

We only have one side of the story. Partly for that reason, I'm not interested in excusing or condemning this guy's behavior. The reason I'm arguing this point is because her account is being mocked as an example of a woman regretting a sexual encounter and coping with that regret by accusing the man of assault.

Good, i can understand your reasoning. I'm not intending to mock her, but her account seems off. Why i don't know. I would like to know more; but i'm not here to pass judgment on her or the guy. But holding up those accounts with only one side as proof of rape isn't a good idea. It would be slightly easier to believe her account of being raped if she hadn't started the whole situation the way she did. She was the sexual aggressor in that situation. some point in events she says she changed her mind. going off of her own words, i don't believe it. others do.

My point is that by her account she was violated. The people in this thread that are criticizing her cannot admit that, so this conversation, like many other conversations about sexual assault, can't really go any further than that.

It's hard to see her as being violated as per above. Yes someone can change their mind in the middle, but if she did, i think she did a poor job in doing so. No or Stop are simple, direct and shorter than "i don't think this is going to work" Why was that not done? neither of us or anyone else in this thread knows. but it makes for a bad argument. but in the eye of the public court, it's potentially a life ending event for the guy. why is this considered fair?

 

[JoeBleed]

Wow, you're a real shithead.

back at you champ.

Edit: actually, why don't you tell me exactly why and how you came to that conclusion. I was starting to think we could have a back and forth conversation reasonably, but then you reply in that manor. I feel like this is P&N. i fucking hate P&N.

 

[Blackjack200]

back at you champ.

Edit: actually, why don't you tell me exactly why and how you came to that conclusion. I was starting to think we could have a back and forth conversation reasonably, but then you reply in that manor. I feel like this is P&N. i fucking hate P&N.

You just speculated, with no evidence at all, that this woman had shitty parents or was molested. That's an extremely ugly thing to say about a real person with real parents and family.

By the way, did you notice that in your criticism of this woman that you alternate between claiming that her account is not believable, and that by her account her efforts to stop the encounter were not sufficient?

Because I did.

 

[JoeBleed]

You just speculated, with no evidence at all, that this woman had shitty parents or was molested. That's an extremely ugly thing to say about a real person with real parents and family.

By the way, did you notice that in your criticism of this woman that you alternate between claiming that her account is note believable, and that by her account her efforts to stop the encounter were not sufficient?

Because I did.

it is an extremely ugly thing to say. so is saying someone raped you when it didn't happen. but again, i'm not saying it did happen or didn't. I'm just saying i don't believe her statement. I have reasons for suggesting someone may have molested her as a child. None of those reasons come from me knowing anything personally about her or her family.

And i'm not alternating. her account can be not believable to me yet i can still say the methods that she describe of her encounter were not sufficient. there is no alternation. It's saying i don't believe a statement and based on said statement, i think this and this. I'm not saying she never made that statement.

 

[mikeymikec]

The joke about consent contracts isn't new. shit, it was around when i was in high school in the early 90s. The point is that some people have differences in opinions on cues. Some people are saying today we should teach young boys not to rape. how about we teach young girls how to say NO and or STOP. Both would be useful.

I'm willing to listen to her side of the story; but you don't seem to want to hear his side of the story. Which no one seems to ask for. Her story sounds odd. You and a few others here seem perfectly fine accepting on her side of the story. I'm not. Nor should our justice system. Yet you call it my "sympathetic bias towards the guy despite the evidence to the contrary" One, i say you have a bias, one in which believe her story and not care about what the guy has to say. two, what evidence; it's only a statement she wrote in a book.

haha, juror. you know, i feel sorry for both the victim and defendant of any trial if you're on the jury.

The sad fact is, she either had some really shitty parents or worse yet, she was molested as a child. The later would be my guess. While possible i suppose, i've never met someone that throught unbuckling a guys pants and grabbing his dick being a good way to say howdy.

You're saying I don't want to hear the guy's side of the story, which is utterly baseless and wrong, and you should take the time to figure out why you feel the need to make shit up to support your position. Seriously.

You evidently have nothing to say about my criticism of your inconsistent and illogical position.

 

[JoeBleed]

You're saying I don't want to hear the guy's side of the story, which is utterly baseless and wrong, and you should take the time to figure out why you feel the need to make shit up to support your position. Seriously.

You evidently have nothing to say about my criticism of your inconsistent and illogical position.

You don't seem to want to hear the guys side as you seem to already have deemed her story accurate and that she was sexually assaulted.

And what inconsistency? the same ones BlackJack is trying to say?

 

[mikeymikec]

You don't seem to want to hear the guys side as you seem to already have deemed her story accurate and that she was sexually assaulted.

Instead of just admitting that you made an utterly baseless statement that I've just told you that you were wrong about, you're now doubling-down on it without any further justification. Talking about not taking both sides into account when there's only one side to take into account is not remotely logical either.

And what inconsistency? the same ones BlackJack is trying to say?

Try reading what I wrote and responding to it.

 

[momeNt]

You just speculated, with no evidence at all, that this woman had shitty parents or was molested. That's an extremely ugly thing to say about a real person with real parents and family.

By the way, did you notice that in your criticism of this woman that you alternate between claiming that her account is not believable, and that by her account her efforts to stop the encounter were not sufficient?

Because I did.

On the spectrum of awkward virgin to rape, where does this one stand?

Does his sexual history matter as well in this situation? If he has been with a lot of girls do you see that as being an aggravating factor?

 

[JoeBleed]

Instead of just admitting that you made an utterly baseless statement that I've just told you that you were wrong about, you're now doubling-down on it without any further justification. Talking about not taking both sides into account when there's only one side to take into account is not remotely logical either.

Try reading what I wrote and responding to it.

I did and i stick by the conclusion i made from your posts.

Edit: and to add. you and a few others are making a lot of assumptions yet you don't seem to think i can make my own assumption because it's different than yours. nice; but i'm not surprised.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Okay champ, if you were having sex with a woman and she said "I don't think this is going to work", what would you do?

Oh come on...any boy at that age is not going to just stop. MAYBE a more nervous boy would say, what's wrong, what am I doing wrong....but MOST boys are going to say "oh baby, it will work, just give it a chance ." and keep going.....I'm sorry for a few here who seem to have a personal position in this, and yes, rape is wrong, but this wasn't rape. This was she second guessed herself half heartedly, and then felt guilty after. People should not be blamed for "oh well I decided later it wasn't okay" or basically every girl who has a one night stand may as well accuse the guy she slept with.

There's a line here and some people are way too emotional to understand that No means no, but "a pause" does not mean no and guys can't read minds. Add to that MANY women prefer the guy to take control....this just gets messier and confusing and consent forms seem better by the day if some of you pansies can't see the difference. (I'm sure some dumbass will try to twist this into condoning rape). Point is, it's not 100% black and white and peoples perspective aren't always the same. If the girl is not vocal about what she wants (and most aren't, especially at that age) there is a huge possibility that they don't see it the same way. The age factor here is almost void because some people are out of their minds if they don't think teenagers are having sex and those laws vary by where you are.

 

[Mai72]

I saw a girl... AND RAN!

It is a scary time for us dudes.

 

[Kaido]

Do you know what the line was?

Don't remember, don't watch the show, but I think it was the creepy guy Herbert? My buddy does the voice spot-on & would quote lines from cartoons all the time. If you knew him, you'd know he wasn't being weird, he was just quoting movie lines, but the new lady didn't know him & took it personally.

 

[Blackjack200]

On the spectrum of awkward virgin to rape, where does this one stand?

Does his sexual history matter as well in this situation? If he has been with a lot of girls do you see that as being an aggravating factor?

Uhh, what? Did you quote the wrong post or something? What you said has nothing to do with what you quoted.

 

[mikeymikec]

I did and i stick by the conclusion i made from your posts.

Edit: and to add. you and a few others are making a lot of assumptions yet you don't seem to think i can make my own assumption because it's different than yours. nice; but i'm not surprised.

Ok, so you're content with your illogical and inconsistent argument position (outlined in post 208), and you're content with lying.

The only assumption that I can see I made was about your position.

Oh come on...any boy at that age is not going to just stop. MAYBE a more nervous boy would say, what's wrong, what am I doing wrong....but MOST boys are going to say "oh baby, it will work, just give it a chance ." and keep going.....I'm sorry for a few here who seem to have a personal position in this, and yes, rape is wrong, but this wasn't rape.

Would you stop if your sexual partner said, "I don't think this is going to work"?

Do you think it's more or less important to pay attention to the cues of a sexual partner who is likely to be inexperienced?

There's a line here and some people are way too emotional to understand that No means no, but "a pause" does not mean no and guys can't read minds. Add to that MANY women prefer the guy to take control....this just gets messier and confusing and consent forms seem better by the day if some of you pansies can't see the difference. (I'm sure some dumbass will try to twist this into condoning rape). Point is, it's not 100% black and white and peoples perspective aren't always the same. If the girl is not vocal about what she wants (and most aren't, especially at that age) there is a huge possibility that they don't see it the same way. The age factor here is almost void because some people are out of their minds if they don't think teenagers are having sex and those laws vary by where you are.

I find it interesting that you feel the need to resort to ad hominems in your opening argument, while claiming that some "seem to have taken a personal position on this".

Do you reckon you can skip the petty insults and make your point without getting emotional and insulting about it?