Very scary time for young men in America

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ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,446
126
Yeah, politically we always do knee-jerk reactions, and then things tend to settle down over time. Hopefully it gets a little less insane over time. Right now it's a mess of he-said, she-said, and we have this weird dichotomy where if you get divorced, the woman tends to get the bulk of everything, but if a woman gets assaulted, she doesn't really have a great path forward to get taken seriously, especially when it's someone famous or powerful. Like with the Kavanaugh thing, people automatically believed Ford, regardless of what actually happened (or didn't happen). Maybe he did it, maybe he didn't, but we're leaning so much one way that even if Kavanaugh is innocent, his reputation is in the trash now (politics aside, just discussing the nature of being able to report or not, and how the public is swayed regardless of the facts at the present time).

Maybe blockchain can solve all of this :D


Umm... I think that I'm going to let someone else release the "Not Rape" crypto token. I'm struggling to wrap my brain around the logistics of it.
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,122
1,594
126
Sure - that's a separate topic, however. I just don't ride or dine alone with other women. Personal boundaries.
One of the problems I have with your outlook is children and most women are pretty bright. How can you possibly defend yourself and keep them as friends when they ask for a ride or comment on your never being alone with them?
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
They are, they are both risks, and there is a way to mitigate it, so you do that. It does not affect how you live in life in any way, it's just mitigating a risk that, while rare, could still happen. Same with fire alarms, why spend all that money on a fire alarm and live in fear that your building might have a fire? That never happens!

LOL!! Die alone and enjoy it.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,704
5,456
136
One of the problems I have with your outlook is children and most women are pretty bright. How can you possibly defend yourself and keep them as friends when they ask for a ride or comment on your never being alone with them?

I mean, I'm not preaching it to anyone. Just for me, in my situation, I find it easier to avoid all of the potential negatives. Like I said, it's old-fashioned, but that's just how I roll. I can see if a friend is stuck & needs a ride or whatever (and out of an abundance of caution, I'd call my wife ahead of time to let her know what I'm doing...I don't want my actions to be misconstrued whatsoever), but I also know plenty of married dudes who spend waaaaay too much time with other women who they aren't married to, and I don't want to end up like that, you know? Emotional cheating is probably just as bad as physically cheating, so even if people aren't sleeping together, you can still have an emotional affair. In general, I just prefer not to even get close to the boundary lines. No accusations, no jealousy issues, no risk of one thing leading to another. I like keeping it as something I simply never have to worry about in my life. I wouldn't say that fear is the primary motivator, more of just caution.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,409
8,703
136
Sheesh, just become a porn star and video all your sex. Problem solved.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,568
9,939
146
One of the problems I have with your outlook is children and most women are pretty bright. How can you possibly defend yourself and keep them as friends when they ask for a ride or comment on your never being alone with them?
:D
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
126
Yeah, politically we always do knee-jerk reactions, and then things tend to settle down over time. Hopefully it gets a little less insane over time. Right now it's a mess of he-said, she-said, and we have this weird dichotomy where if you get divorced, the woman tends to get the bulk of everything, but if a woman gets assaulted, she doesn't really have a great path forward to get taken seriously, especially when it's someone famous or powerful. Like with the Kavanaugh thing, people automatically believed Ford, regardless of what actually happened (or didn't happen). Maybe he did it, maybe he didn't, but we're leaning so much one way that even if Kavanaugh is innocent, his reputation is in the trash now (politics aside, just discussing the nature of being able to report or not, and how the public is swayed regardless of the facts at the present time).

Maybe blockchain can solve all of this :D

Apparently enough people "believed" him to get him appointed to the supreme court. If his reputation is in fact "trashed", he probably doesnt give a rats ass, since he has a lifetime appointment as one of the top 9 judges in the country.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,786
136
One of the problems I have with your outlook is children and most women are pretty bright. How can you possibly defend yourself and keep them as friends when they ask for a ride or comment on your never being alone with them?

The situation is quite bad, but when it gets bad you have to often resort to extremes to defend yourself.

The comment about how only 10% of cases being fake rape cases is believable, it doesn't make the 10% that get falsely charged any less worse. Society tends to go to extremes and that hurts individuals. We just look in terms of numbers and say "10%" is nothing, but that 10% consists of actual, real live people.

Also Kaido has it right. Emotional cheating is bad and hurtful. If you have a wife, then be content with what you have and do everything to protect the relationship. You should be spending most time with her anyway.
 
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Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,481
3,601
126
I'm more likely to be hit by a car than I am to be eaten by a shark, I think it's safe to say that fear of car accidents is more well-founded than fear of being eaten by a shark.

I don't think that is how "More well-founded" is supposed to be used. More in this case doesn't refer to frequency of occurrences but instead refers to the substance or supporting evidence to the reasoning. So the phrase would instead be used for something along the lines of "The supporting evidence for Joe's case is based on peer reviewed studies while Jame's case is not. Therefore Joe's case is more well founded than James."
 

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,936
6,311
136
Apparently enough people "believed" him to get him appointed to the supreme court. If his reputation is in fact "trashed", he probably doesnt give a rats ass, since he has a lifetime appointment as one of the top 9 judges in the country.
You and a box of hair...

...is that necessitous?
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,244
10,818
136
Need to watch with kids too, don't find yourself in a situation where you are alone with one or even more than one kid. One of my coworker's friends actually got screwed over that way. He had to babysit a few kids and their friends and one kid jokingly said something to the effect that he beat them and the parents got wind of that and took it seriously and he ended up being dragged through the legal system. Can't recall how many years he got, think it was only a few. Basically when you win a case like that, you're only reducing your sentence. Once the allegations are against you, you're screwed. Stuff like that happens often, it's scary.
I would really like to be a big brother for Big Brothers and Sisters, but the fear of being accused of something has prevented me (that and not sure I want to be that dedicated to it). It is probably irrational and the actual risk is exceptionally low, but it isn't zero.

As for the the story in the OP, even her statements 100% read as consent followed by regret. It is insane that it went anywhere past her initial statement. I am all for punishment of actual assault and rape, but not regret and not a misunderstanding of boundaries that was immediately corrected.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
It does seem like there are definitely some issues with Title IX, particularly the stuff about third party reporting. That being said it still seems like it is a proportionally small issue relative to the issue at large.

The articles claim that there isn't great data on false accusations but they figures thrown around were anywhere from 2-10%. Even if you take the maximum of that, 10%, I would still argue that the bigger problem is the 90% of the time that women are assaulted/raped. I feel bad for anyone falsely accused and we need to find a way to try and minimize that issue but when you compare the number of men falsely accused against the number of women that are actually assaulted the difference is pretty stark. The 90/10 split also doesn't take into account that only about 1/3 of all rape cases are reported, and I'm sure the percentage of sexual assaults reported is even less, so essentially we are now saying for that every 1 man falsely accused there are 27 women that are actually assaulted. If we change the 10% assumption to something lower the ratio jumps quite a bit.

Both the falsely accused and the women assaulted have had crimes committed against them but one number is much larger than the other. We need to do our best as a society to minimize both of these numbers but when men talk about it being a "scary world for them" it's easy to see why women who have been dealing with this $hit for the entire history of mankind can't help but push back.

Edit: I should note that I've only made it through reading the Atlantic article and the Harvard Law article, so if there are different statistics in one of the other articles I haven't gotten to it yet.
We can do better, but the Title IX kangaroo courts are a complete train wreck. Due process is core to our values as a society. It is better for 100 murderers to walk free than wrongfuly accuse one person. School administrators are simply not equipped to handle what amounts to criminal proceedings.

The proportion of wrongfully accused men is irrelevant to the proportion of under reported rapes and sexual assaults. We don’t victimize one group to make amends for our failure to address crimes committed against an other.

Brock Turner and Mattress Girl should both be pariahs.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
59,239
13,843
136
I don't think that is how "More well-founded" is supposed to be used. More in this case doesn't refer to frequency of occurrences but instead refers to the substance or supporting evidence to the reasoning. So the phrase would instead be used for something along the lines of "The supporting evidence for Joe's case is based on peer reviewed studies while Jame's case is not. Therefore Joe's case is more well founded than James."
synonyms:justifiable, justified, warranted, legitimate, defensible, valid, admissible, allowable, understandable, excusable, acceptable, reasonable, sensible, sound, well grounded
"her suspicions were well founded"
Seems fine to me.
 

Chromagnus

Senior member
Feb 28, 2017
255
111
86
We can do better, but the Title IX kangaroo courts are a complete train wreck. Due process is core to our values as a society. It is better for 100 murderers to walk free than wrongfuly accuse one person. School administrators are simply not equipped to handle what amounts to criminal proceedings.

The proportion of wrongfully accused men is irrelevant to the proportion of under reported rapes and sexual assaults. We don’t victimize one group to make amends for our failure to address crimes committed against an other.

Brock Turner and Mattress Girl should both be pariahs.

We both agree that we should try and do better on both sides of things but they are related. The more likely you are to believe women the more likely you are to have false accusations hurt people. On the flip side the more likely you are to not believe women the more likely you are to have more women get assaulted and not come forward. We can and should try to minimize both but I think both sides of the discussion are wrong if they don't think that there a repercussions either way.

At this current point in time it seems to me like the side getting assaulted is the much greater problem and should be the problem that gets more attention when it comes to trying to help fix things. That isn't to say that we shouldn't watch out for false allegations and try to stop them but false allegations don't seem like such a big problem at the moment that we should continue to let women get harassed/assaulted/raped at the rate which they currently are.
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,122
1,594
126
The situation is quite bad, but when it gets bad you have to often resort to extremes to defend yourself.

The comment about how only 10% of cases being fake rape cases is believable, it doesn't make the 10% that get falsely charged any less worse. Society tends to go to extremes and that hurts individuals. We just look in terms of numbers and say "10%" is nothing, but that 10% consists of actual, real live people.

Also Kaido has it right. Emotional cheating is bad and hurtful. If you have a wife, then be content with what you have and do everything to protect the relationship. You should be spending most time with her anyway.
Wtf is emotional cheating?That's a pretty crazy outlook as well. There's a limit to the amount of love you and others have to share? Forming strong friendships with other women can only help your relationship with your wife unless she suffers from jealousy or other form of mental imbalance.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
At this current point in time it seems to me like the side getting assaulted is the much greater problem and should be the problem that gets more attention when it comes to trying to help fix things.
Rape and sexual assault is the greater problem, but you can’t solve that problem by eliminating or undermining due process for the accused.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,704
5,456
136
Wtf is emotional cheating?That's a pretty crazy outlook as well. There's a limit to the amount of love you and others have to share? Forming strong friendships with other women can only help your relationship with your wife unless she suffers from jealousy or other form of mental imbalance.

As far as emotional affairs go, here's a good introduction:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...01406/emotional-affairs-why-they-hurt-so-much

I don't think friendships are binary "all the way or none of the way" types of things...you can be friends with other women when you're married, but that doesn't mean you have to take a road trip alone with them or have a solo lunch with them. I wouldn't really be happy if my wife was hanging out with some other dude for lunch. But then, that's where my jealousy line lies & where I feel there is a limit to what is appropriate & what isn't.

I do think there's a difference between friendships & how much time you spend & what you do with other people. For example: would you be happy with your wife going out to dinner - alone - with another guy? Some people would be, some people wouldn't be. I don't go out to dinner alone with other women because I'm married & that's not appropriate in my playbook. Everyone has to draw their own lines between what is & isn't appropriate in their relationship, and that's going to be different for every couple, and for every couple it's going to be a compromise of what they both want.

And that's just basic emotional sensitivity...if your wife is cool with you having a lunch date with another woman, then more power to you. But if it makes her feel jealous, then it's not really appropriate, so even if you think it's appropriate, but it's hurting her feelings, then I mean, why even bother being in a relationship if you're not going to try to make your significant other happy & be considerate of their feelings? I suppose you can look at it as being whipped, or as living life in fear, but I wouldn't really say that's the root motivational driver for this type of behavior.
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,122
1,594
126
As far as emotional affairs go, here's a good introduction:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...01406/emotional-affairs-why-they-hurt-so-much

I don't think friendships are binary "all the way or none of the way" types of things...you can be friends with other women when you're married, but that doesn't mean you have to take a road trip alone with them or have a solo lunch with them. I wouldn't really be happy if my wife was hanging out with some other dude for lunch. But then, that's where my jealousy line lies & where I feel there is a limit to what is appropriate & what isn't.

I do think there's a difference between friendships & how much time you spend & what you do with other people. For example: would you be happy with your wife going out to dinner - alone - with another guy? Some people would be, some people wouldn't be. I don't go out to dinner alone with other women because I'm married & that's not appropriate in my playbook. Everyone has to draw their own lines between what is & isn't appropriate in their relationship, and that's going to be different for every couple, and for every couple it's going to be a compromise of what they both want.

And that's just basic emotional sensitivity...if your wife is cool with you having a lunch date with another woman, then more power to you. But if it makes her feel jealous, then it's not really appropriate, so even if you think it's appropriate, but it's hurting her feelings, then I mean, why even bother being in a relationship if you're not going to try to make your significant other happy & be considerate of their feelings? I suppose you can look at it as being whipped, or as living life in fear, but I wouldn't really say that's the root motivational driver for this type of behavior.
First, either one of us is fine with the other having drinks and\or dinner alone with a male or female friend. I would go so far as to say a husband or wife being uncomfortable with that is mentally unstable with trust issues. The only way your outlook makes any kind of sense is if you, your wife or, both, value your assets more than personal relationships. Which, is pretty sad. What does being considerate of your mates feelings have anything to do with friendships with the opposite sex? That kind of protectionism is offensive to my wife and the women I call friends.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,704
5,456
136
First, either one of us is fine with the other having drinks and\or dinner alone with a male or female friend. I would go so far as to say a husband or wife being uncomfortable with that is mentally unstable with trust issues. The only way your outlook makes any kind of sense is if you, your wife or, both, value your assets more than personal relationships. Which, is pretty sad. What does being considerate of your mates feelings have anything to do with friendships with the opposite sex? That kind of protectionism is offensive to my wife and the women I call friends.

I think that's what it boils down to...if your wife is OK with you having dinner & drinks alone with female friend, and if you're OK with it, then that's where your combined lines of appropriate behavior are. That's not where mine are, but again, I'm not telling anyone how to live their life, that's just how I choose to roll. Everyone's relationship is different, that's all. I am overly cautious, personally. Probably because I'm borderline irresistible to women, what with my ability to cook, 4-cylinder sports car, and rockin' dadbod :D