Vermont Democrats Scrub Pot Bill

[bshole]

As a marijuana legalization bill was about to go to a vote on the floor of the Vermont House Tuesday afternoon, Democratic leaders pulled the plug and agreed to send it to a committee for further debate.

The move means House leaders were unable to muster the votes to pass the legislation. Whether that kills the bill for the year or not is a matter of speculation.

“It’s not dead,” said Eli Harrington, an East Burke resident who had been lobbying for legalization.

“That kills it,” muttered Rep. Sam Young (D-Glover), also a supporter.

“We believe the bill needs some more time and some more vetting,” said House Majority Leader Jill Krowinski (D-Burlington). “I’m not going to push it out there if it needs more time.”

http://www.sevendaysvt.com/OffMessa...-in-limbo-after-house-democrats-pull-pot-bill

Democrats pulled the bill even though nearly 60% of Vermont voters supported it.

H. 170 is expected to receive a full House vote soon; a statewide survey conducted this week found 57% of Vermont voters are in favor of the bipartisan proposal to eliminate penalties for personal marijuana possession and cultivation by adults 21 and older

 

[theeedude]

I read that there is a company planning on marketing synthetic THC that has been lobbying hard against decriminalizing pot.

 

[uallas5]

It will be like it was here in MA. The pols will dither until someone puts it on a referendum and forces the matter.

 

[nakedfrog]

This seems like kind of a soft legalization, but it does seem like a sensible approach (but obviously not the cash cow that it is with full legalization).

I read that there is a company planning on marketing synthetic THC that has been lobbying hard against decriminalizing pot.

I read that too, the first thing that came to my mind was "what a stupid concept". Why does synthetic THC need to exist?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

This seems like kind of a soft legalization, but it does seem like a sensible approach (but obviously not the cash cow that it is with full legalization).

I read that too, the first thing that came to my mind was "what a stupid concept". Why does synthetic THC need to exist?

Probably faster/easier to produce than the natural stuff. Think Aspirin.

 

[kage69]

I read that there is a company planning on marketing synthetic THC that has been lobbying hard against decriminalizing pot.

Just like the oxycontin makers, who incidentally made the conscious decision to not put coatings on their pills because people grinding them up to snort is still OK with them as long as it results in sales.

Even with the death toll their products are adding to on a daily basis, these asshats are still bent on vilifying a non-toxic alternative with anti-cancer and anti-inflammation benefits. Just amazing.

 

[bshole]

Just like the oxycontin makers, who incidentally made the conscious decision to not put coatings on their pills because people grinding them up to snort is still OK with them as long as it results in sales.

Even with the death toll their products are adding to on a daily basis, these asshats are still bent on vilifying a non-toxic alternative with anti-cancer and anti-inflammation benefits. Just amazing.

People in the BIG pharma have no problem with harming people if it helps their bottom line.

It is outrageous that Democrats would willfully go against the voters in their own state due to BIG PHARMA (who want to introduce a monetized less safe alternative).

In one week, we get an awesome example of how corporate interests own both parties. In both instances, pols go against the wishes of the people and against simple morality in exchange for cash. Republicans on net neutrality, Democrats in Vermont on pot.

Justice Democrats.... check it out.

 

[vi edit]

This seems like kind of a soft legalization, but it does seem like a sensible approach (but obviously not the cash cow that it is with full legalization).

I read that too, the first thing that came to my mind was "what a stupid concept". Why does synthetic THC need to exist?

If you want a reasonable answer it's because you can measure dosing. You know exactly how much is being administered if it's manufactured.

 

[nakedfrog]

Probably faster/easier to produce than the natural stuff. Think Aspirin.

I don't know anything about aspirin manufacture other than some hazy recollection of it coming from willow bark.

 

[nakedfrog]

If you want a reasonable answer it's because you can measure dosing. You know exactly how much is being administered if it's manufactured.

I suppose that is much easier to control than just growing it and testing it after the fact.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I don't know anything about aspirin manufacture other than some hazy recollection of it coming from willow bark.

Yep, as opposed to people harvesting willows, it's just manufactured for 500ct/$10. It's not necessarily a Bad Thing(tm), it just depends on how many greedy shits get their hands on it.

Also what vi edit said, it's far easier to have a reliable function if the source is quantifiable and reliably manufactured.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Yep, as opposed to people harvesting willows, it's just manufactured for 500ct/$10. It's not necessarily a Bad Thing(tm), it just depends on how many greedy shits get their hands on it.

Also what vi edit said, it's far easier to have a reliable function if the source is quantifiable and reliably manufactured.

Get a clue. The pure pill form just makes it easier to get a toxic overdose. Take caffeine and nicotine, hard to get a killing overdose drinking coffee and smoking cigars in one day but down enough energy drinks or e-cigs refills and you are dead.

 

[bshole]

Get a clue. The pure pill form just makes it easier to get a toxic overdose. Take caffeine and nicotine, hard to get a killing overdose drinking coffee and smoking cigars in one day but down enough energy drinks or e-cigs refills and you are dead.

Never been a fatal od on pot..... now with our new improved corporate synthetic pot you get the thrill of possible OD death..... roflmao.....

 

[Jhhnn]

I read that there is a company planning on marketing synthetic THC that has been lobbying hard against decriminalizing pot.

These guys-

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-dea-pharma-synthetic-marijuana-20170325-story.html

 

[Pantoot]

Never been a fatal od on pot..... now with our new improved corporate synthetic pot you get the thrill of possible OD death..... roflmao.....

Never?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24598271

Still way safer than water though.

 

[Jhhnn]

Never?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24598271

Still way safer than water though.

I'm not paying to read it but I suspect synthetic cannabinoids were involved rather than natural cannabis. That's a whole different realm.

 

[Pantoot]

I'm not paying to read it but I suspect synthetic cannabinoids were involved rather than natural cannabis. That's a whole different realm.

As far as I can tell, the closest they come to addressing this is "A small amount of marijuana was found in his pockets" and "Next to the body an ashtray, rolling paper and a sealable plastic bag containing remnants of marijuana were found."
They do discuss the LD50 of THC at the end, so it seems like if it were synthetic they would have mentioned it, but then again, maybe they weren't aware of a difference?

(edit: they also show the toxicology info, but I don't know enough about what the THC, 11-OH-THC,etc levels would look like for synthetic vs natural.)

 

[Jhhnn]

As far as I can tell, the closest they come to addressing this is "A small amount of marijuana was found in his pockets" and "Next to the body an ashtray, rolling paper and a sealable plastic bag containing remnants of marijuana were found."
They do discuss the LD50 of THC at the end, so it seems like if it were synthetic they would have mentioned it, but then again, maybe they weren't aware of a difference?

(edit: they also show the toxicology info, but I don't know enough about what the THC, 11-OH-THC,etc levels would look like for synthetic vs natural.)

I'm calling shens on the whole thing. This statistic has held constant for decades even as usage in the US has increased-

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/marijuana-deaths-2014_us_56816417e4b06fa68880a217

"We can't explain it so it must have been the marijuana."

 

[Pantoot]

I'm calling shens on the whole thing. This statistic has held constant for decades even as usage in the US has increased-

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/marijuana-deaths-2014_us_56816417e4b06fa68880a217

"We can't explain it so it must have been the marijuana."

Weird. They say:

The rate of absolutely zero deaths from a marijuana overdose remained steady from last year, according to figures released this month by the Centers for Disease Control

They have two links. One is a story that says nobody has died. The second is a link to the "figures" (https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates).
I don't see any reference to MJ at all on the "figures" page. I get that they probably wouldn't make a graph to show all 0's but maybe they would say something about no deaths? I dunno, I guess I could write an article about how no people are dying from alcohol and cite the same page. (yeah, i know...)

Anyway, i wouldn't be worried about od'ing on MJ, which even if is possible, is way more unlikely than overdosing on water.

 

[kage69]

I'm in Vermont, and got to speak with some people in Burlington today about this. Well, I crashed their convo when I overheard what they were discussing. All were adults, with about 75% of them being local business owners. There seemed to be a consensus of opinion that the personal limit for home cultivation was too low, and no one really saw this as a major set back.

 

[Jhhnn]

Weird. They say:



They have two links. One is a story that says nobody has died. The second is a link to the "figures" (https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates).
I don't see any reference to MJ at all on the "figures" page. I get that they probably wouldn't make a graph to show all 0's but maybe they would say something about no deaths? I dunno, I guess I could write an article about how no people are dying from alcohol and cite the same page. (yeah, i know...)

Anyway, i wouldn't be worried about od'ing on MJ, which even if is possible, is way more unlikely than overdosing on water.

Please. Had there been deaths they would have been reported. That's entirely obvious.

 

[Sunburn74]

I'm not sure why the pulled it but the legalization of marijuana is not as simple as flipping a switch. There are enforcement issues, issues related to official sale, issues related to people currently incarcerated for marijuana and so on. Personally, I think the war on pot has been extremely costly to the US and damaging to many of the most vulnerable segments of our population. Nonetheless, I don't think any state should rush in the other direction either without first hammering out a solid plan that all sides feel pretty comfortable with.

IMO the problem with these bills is they try and do too much. They try to eat the elephant all at once, rather than in small bites.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm in Vermont, and got to speak with some people in Burlington today about this. Well, I crashed their convo when I overheard what they were discussing. All were adults, with about 75% of them being local business owners. There seemed to be a consensus of opinion that the personal limit for home cultivation was too low, and no one really saw this as a major set back.

4 total & two flowering really is low. There's a lot of generalized goofiness even in legalized states. In Oregon, for example, a household can grow 4 plants outdoors with a potential harvest easily exceeding 10 pounds but the at home possession limit is 8 ounces...

Marijuana bushes get big in Oregon- really, really big...

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm not sure why the pulled it but the legalization of marijuana is not as simple as flipping a switch. There are enforcement issues, issues related to official sale, issues related to people currently incarcerated for marijuana and so on. Personally, I think the war on pot has been extremely costly to the US and damaging to many of the most vulnerable segments of our population. Nonetheless, I don't think any state should rush in the other direction either without first hammering out a solid plan that all sides feel pretty comfortable with.

IMO the problem with these bills is they try and do too much. They try to eat the elephant all at once, rather than in small bites.

All sides? Staunch conservatives will never accept reefer madness in their communities. You can leave them out. What happens is that legislatures try to reinvent the wheel & exert a lot more illusory control over personal growing than necessary.

The other side of it is that legalized possession w/o legalized supply channels is a black market bonanza & a net loss to taxpayers. Cannabis consumers will readily pay sin taxes in return for selection, convenience & personal safety of the retail market. They're also assured of honest weight & a product free of inappropriate pesticides. Few consumers will grow their own but that option needs to be reasonably open to actually declare peace in the War on Marijuana.

 

[FIVR]

The day synthetic THC becomes widely available is likely soon before you see overdoses on it. I'm calling it now: Synthetic THC will result in the first fatal overdose of "marijuana" ever.