Verizon, you need to be slapped

[Bateluer]

http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/27/htc-merge-for-verizon-gets-snapped-another-android-phone-with-b/

We're not sure exactly what Verizon is up to with these high-end Android phones that aren't Droids and feature Bing over Google, but it looks like the Fascinate is about to get a friend: BGR just got these snaps of the HTC ADR6235, which appears to be the Merge we've heard so much about, and the same dual-mode set we saw at the FCC. Nothing's confirmed specs-wise except a five megapixel camera, microSD slot, and SIM slot for global roaming, but we're still pretty sure this thing will basically be the CDMA version of the Desire Z / T-Mobile G2 and feature a Qualcomm MSM7630 processor with 4GB of onboard storage. And then there's that Bing logo on the homescreen -- we don't know how thoroughly it's integrated into Sense, but here's hoping it's better than what Samsung accomplished with TouchWiz on the Fascinate -- hardware this promising shouldn't be saddled with carrier-wrecked firmware.

Bing better be removable and the default search changed. All I can say.

 

[Phobic9]

Seeing on what they did to the Galaxy S, I'm not getting my hopes up with this phone. I don't want Bing on my phone unless I put it there and can take it off myself.

Verizon seems to be getting back to their old ways. D:

 

[gsaldivar]

Bing better be removable and the default search changed. All I can say.

This x 1000.

If I can't dump Bing and set Google as my default search engine, then I refuse to buy it.

 

[Strk]

Verizon costs more than everyone else anyways, so I don't really care

 

[boomhower]

I am just the opposite. I really like Bing and would like to change the default on my EVO but can't find a way to do it.

 

[Brian Stirling]

Remember folks, there are guys here that say if you support open systems then you have to permit Verizon to setup the phone with Bing versus Google! Of course what they don't seem to address is the fact that Verizon is locking it down so you MUST use Bing and can't switch to Google. I'd suggest that to be open you have to allow Verizon to setup the phone with Bing BUT also MUST permit the user to switch to Google without rooting or jumping through unnecessary hoops. Openness MUST go both way!


Brian

 

[zerocool84]

Remember folks, there are guys here that say if you support open systems then you have to permit Verizon to setup the phone with Bing versus Google! Of course what they don't seem to address is the fact that Verizon is locking it down so you MUST use Bing and can't switch to Google. I'd suggest that to be open you have to allow Verizon to setup the phone with Bing BUT also MUST permit the user to switch to Google without rooting or jumping through unnecessary hoops. Openness MUST go both way!


Brian

That's not what open means. Open means people can do as they legally please with it. Like has been said, forcing someone to change the way an open OS works makes it no longer open. If you don't like the phone don't buy it. Voting with your wallet is the most effective thing we as consumers can do. Android gives users many different phones and options so if you don't like one phone you have the option to buy another.

 

[dguy6789]

Verizon has already stated that an update for the Fascinate will give you the option to use Google instead of Bing. No reason to believe that this phone won't be the same and have an option for either or. There is no reason for so many people to get their panties in a wad over a different default search engine.

 

[Bateluer]

Verizon has already stated that an update for the Fascinate will give you the option to use Google instead of Bing. No reason to believe that this phone won't be the same and have an option for either or. There is no reason for so many people to get their panties in a wad over a different default search engine.

Will this update be coming from Samsung or Verizon? Samsung's not exactly quick with the updates.

People are irritated over Verizon taking away the ability for them to configure the phone the way they wish. We're not talking about a root required tool here, or something that's going to cause detrimental harm to the carrier's profit margins.

I hate Bing, I wouldn't buy a phone with that locked as the default search. Even if it was somehow locked on my phone, there'd be a shortcut on the home screen to the google.com for the web browser . . . for the brief time period it took for me to return the phone to Verizon and complain. Loudly.

 

[Brian Stirling]

That's not what open means. Open means people can do as they legally please with it. Like has been said, forcing someone to change the way an open OS works makes it no longer open. If you don't like the phone don't buy it. Voting with your wallet is the most effective thing we as consumers can do. Android gives users many different phones and options so if you don't like one phone you have the option to buy another.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here ...

Are you saying it's OK for the carrier to lock down features like search? Are you saying that doing anything the carrier permits you to do with there locked down phone constitutes 'open?'

I think open means:

The carrier being permitted to modify the OS to add or subtract features as they see fit,

AND

The user being permitted to undo all that the carrier has predefined for you.

In short, openness means CHOICE!

When the carrier locks down something that you, as the user, can not unlock then that's not open. I think there are some exceptions when it comes to features that impact network use, features like the hotspot. No doubt there are some that would argue that since Froyo offers a free hotspot that the carriers should give that away for free as well, but since this feature can and does greatly increase data use the carriers have a legitimate reason to control that.

Apple isn't open and being able to legally do anything they let you doesn't equal openness.


Brian

 

[zerocool84]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here ...

Are you saying it's OK for the carrier to lock down features like search? Are you saying that doing anything the carrier permits you to do with there locked down phone constitutes 'open?'

I think open means:

The carrier being permitted to modify the OS to add or subtract features as they see fit,

AND

The user being permitted to undo all that the carrier has predefined for you.

In short, openness means CHOICE!

When the carrier locks down something that you, as the user, can not unlock then that's not open. I think there are some exceptions when it comes to features that impact network use, features like the hotspot. No doubt there are some that would argue that since Froyo offers a free hotspot that the carriers should give that away for free as well, but since this feature can and does greatly increase data use the carriers have a legitimate reason to control that.

Apple isn't open and being able to legally do anything they let you doesn't equal openness.


Brian

The company that makes the product that's open CANNOT tell someone that they have to have it a certain way. Like we've already discussed, there's positives and negatives to an open product. This is one of those negatives. If Google told them they couldn't do that, they're defeating the purpose of an open system. Yes open means choice. You have the choice to buy that phone or the tons of other phones, Apple, HTC, Motorola, etc. If people don't buy closed phones then they won't make one again. If they do then that shows that people are ok with it. Vote with your wallet.

 

[Bateluer]

The company that makes the product that's open CANNOT tell someone that they have to have it a certain way. Vote with your wallet.

Yes, actually they can, depending on the licensing. If Android was licensed under the GPL, withholding things like the kernel source would be a licensing violation, same with the locked boot loaders, etc. Under the GPL, changes made to it would be required to be made public. Unfortunately, Google licensed Android under the Apache license in order to get carrier cooperation. The Apache license gives carriers and manufacturer the legal right to lock down the OS or alter it in any way they see fit without making any changes public or contributing back to the AOSP.

Had Android been under the GPL, there'd be a LOT more actual development occuring and not so much cracking and reverse engineering. But, then again, under the GPL, far few carriers would have wanted it. Everything comes down to control. They want to have it, and deny it to you.

On the bolded part, the universal truth. Unfortunately, out of 1,000,000 people buying an Android phone, only a dozen will stand on principle and refuse to buy it. Most, sadly, just don't care and will drink whatever Kool-Aide their given. Even when its laced with cyanide and arsenic.

 

[NutBucket]

Am I wrong for wanting a Fascinate despite it being Bing locked? Is the Super AMOLED worth it? Ugh, I'm really torn on this one.

 

[Bateluer]

Am I wrong for wanting a Fascinate despite it being Bing locked?

Yes, yes you are.

Is the Super AMOLED worth it? Ugh, I'm really torn on this one.

Reports about its battery life savings and viewability vs SLCDs suggest that it is not worth it.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

Yes, yes you are.



Reports about its battery life savings and viewability vs SLCDs suggest that it is not worth it.

I have an Epic, Viewability is amazing in the sun. Trust me on that one, the last 3 days has been 110+ degree weather here in CA and with the Super AMOLED and brightness up its super clear. Battery life however is abysmal. My phone lasts about 8 hours of heavy use.

 

[SKC]

coming from a samsung fascinate.. the screen is absolutely gorgeous. That + the hummingbird cpu is the factor keeping me from going nuts about the GPS issue.

 

[Deeko]

I still don't see why its such a big deal. The majority of the time, Bing will find you the same stuff Google will. Even if you hate Bing that much, just go to Google.com.

This seems like such a negligible thing for people to nerd-rage about.

 

[Deeko]

Remember folks, there are guys here that say if you support open systems then you have to permit Verizon to setup the phone with Bing versus Google! Of course what they don't seem to address is the fact that Verizon is locking it down so you MUST use Bing and can't switch to Google. I'd suggest that to be open you have to allow Verizon to setup the phone with Bing BUT also MUST permit the user to switch to Google without rooting or jumping through unnecessary hoops. Openness MUST go both way!


Brian

*sigh* its not a difficult concept to grasp. Android is open at its core, allowing anyone the ability to mold it as they see fit. And if Verizon and its partners see it fit to replace Google with Bing, that's their choice. It is also their choice to make it irreversable. Luckily for the consumer, with that openness, comes many different choices. Pick the one that fits what you want. If the GG&P crowd that thinks Bing is the devil buys other products instead, and the general public agrees with them, then Verizon & Co will make different choices in the future.

Its very simple.

 

[s44]

Am I wrong for wanting a Fascinate despite it being Bing locked? Is the Super AMOLED worth it? Ugh, I'm really torn on this one.

Anyone posting to this forum can remove Bing fairly easily.

Super AMOLED + 4" = best phone display, period.

Best Buy is apparently going to offer it for *free* (with contract) this Friday though.

 

[murphy55d]

I still don't see why its such a big deal. The majority of the time, Bing will find you the same stuff Google will. Even if you hate Bing that much, just go to Google.com.

This seems like such a negligible thing for people to nerd-rage about.

I agree. I couldn't care less what the default search is set to. If the phone's hardware is what I want, I'll buy it no matter what it defaults to.

Chances are, I'm guessing, that most of the people who are so against this are going to root and install a custom rom anyway, making bing irrelevant in the end no matter what.

 

[NutBucket]

Yeah, I suppose.

That said, being a new customer I can get it for $10 from wirefly as it is. If it really does drop to free this Friday I guess I'm off to BB.

 

[UNCjigga]

Remember folks, there are guys here that say if you support open systems then you have to permit Verizon to setup the phone with Bing versus Google! Of course what they don't seem to address is the fact that Verizon is locking it down so you MUST use Bing and can't switch to Google. I'd suggest that to be open you have to allow Verizon to setup the phone with Bing BUT also MUST permit the user to switch to Google without rooting or jumping through unnecessary hoops. Openness MUST go both way!


Brian

Google Search will be installable from the Market once Android 2.2 updates are available for the "binged" devices. Unfortunately, this may not apply to in-browser searches. I have a feeling that Google isn't going to sit idly--future versions of Android should hopefully allow users to remove carrier installed apps/services and "go stock", as well as change default search providers, map providers, etc.

That said, if you want a Google experience device, make sure it has the "with Google" branding and you'll be fine. If it doesn't say "with Google"...buyer beware.

 

[Brian Stirling]

*sigh* its not a difficult concept to grasp. Android is open at its core, allowing anyone the ability to mold it as they see fit. And if Verizon and its partners see it fit to replace Google with Bing, that's their choice. It is also their choice to make it irreversable. Luckily for the consumer, with that openness, comes many different choices. Pick the one that fits what you want. If the GG&P crowd that thinks Bing is the devil buys other products instead, and the general public agrees with them, then Verizon & Co will make different choices in the future.

Its very simple.

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. I think open must go both ways so I as a user can undo the 'choices' the carrier made for me. You could, for example, buy a phone configured the way you like but an update from the carriers changed things in a way you have no control over other than dumping the phone, at a price, and finding another phone without the things you don't want. And, then hope they don't change things after the fact as well.

But, I do agree that given the choice BEFORE buying you can choice to NOT buy Verizon. I don't think that quite constitutes the openness we talk about because, once again, there's not much preventing the carrier from changing things after the fact. In an open world as I see it the carrier could do as they wish and I as the user could do as I wish.


Brian

 

[JD50]

*sigh* its not a difficult concept to grasp. Android is open at its core, allowing anyone the ability to mold it as they see fit. And if Verizon and its partners see it fit to replace Google with Bing, that's their choice. It is also their choice to make it irreversable. Luckily for the consumer, with that openness, comes many different choices. Pick the one that fits what you want. If the GG&P crowd that thinks Bing is the devil buys other products instead, and the general public agrees with them, then Verizon & Co will make different choices in the future.

Its very simple.

Obviously it's their choice and they can do as they please, but it still goes against the spirit of being open. That's the issue many people have with it.

 

[Deeko]

Obviously it's their choice and they can do as they please, but it still goes against the spirit of being open. That's the issue many people have with it.

The operating system is still open. You're free to make your own custom ROM. The phone itself? Well, if they want to lock the bootloader or not has nothing to do with Android as an operating system, so its outside the scope of whether or not the OS is open. Find your own way around it, and then hack Android till your little heart's content.

That said, there's nothing to stop you from downloading a widget from the market that searches google, or downloading a different browser that uses google search by default. There is still plenty of openness, even if the search button opens Bing by default.

Rationally, this is a *very* minor detail to the end user with many workarounds. As I've said in other threads, and in this one, its blown out of proportion with nerd-rage for the sake of nerd rage.

Someone else put it best...vote with your wallet. If the search button opening Bing really is the end of the world to you, buy something else. If it still sells well, what incentive does Verizon have to change?