[Verge] Intel revenues down 5%

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pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
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uncements for when they ship product on a new node to customers, it's almost always FPGA's because they're one of the 'easiest' designs to start with. Intel is putting together the necessary expertise and toolset to open its fabs to outside companies if it needs to.

Regardless, the mobile space could easily go either way, all we can currently do is speculate... and since we don't have adequate information available that speculation is pretty meaningless.

I'm not questioning Intel's relevancy in that market and future markets, I'm questioning their dominant position, one that was built upon AMD's failure. Now the Intel fish is in a different pond with lots of other big fish. Big fish that Intel hasn't seen or competed against in a long time. In order to retain that bigger fish status, they'll have to continue to prosper and at a greater rate than they did with only the desktop/x86 space.


What exactly did they post in Q3 2012 that was half of Q3 2011? Revenue of $13.5 billion vs $14.2 billion? Nope. Operating income of $3.8 billion vs $4.8 billion? Nope. Net income of $3.0 billion vs $3.5 billion? Nope.


down 50%, not up 50%. What they need is up 50%. Stock dipped by more than 20% through 2 quarters and looks to dip even further going into and through Q4. Considering the release of Win8, the trend should have been upward, not down.

Samsung hasn't been hurting, either. Neither has Apple.

Qualcomm shares rose 5.7% in late trading Wednesday after the wireless chip designer reported its adjusted third-quarter earnings rose 20% over the year-ago quarter.

However the company came up short of bullish sales and earnings expectations and trimmed its outlook for the remainder of its fiscal year, citing a soft global economy and trouble meeting demand for its latest smartphone chips.

Qualcomm posted adjusted earnings of of 85 cents per share on revenue of $4.63 billion. Analysts were expecting adjusted earnings of 86 cents a share on revenues of $4.68 billion, according to a survey by Thomson Reuters.

So during this same "gloomy" economic period, Qualcomm has grown, comparative Q3 earnings from year-to-year grew 20% and despite supply constraints they still posted a share increase of 5.7%
 
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Blandge

Member
Jul 10, 2012
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I'm not questioning Intel's relevancy in that market and future markets, I'm questioning their dominant position, one that was built upon AMD's failure. Now the Intel fish is in a different pond with lots of other big fish. Big fish that Intel hasn't seen or competed against in a long time. In order to retain that bigger fish status, they'll have to continue to prosper and at a greater rate than they did with only the desktop/x86 space.

It took over 20 YEARS for Intel to win the desktop space, competing against some huge competitors. It's taken half a decade years for Intel to establish their current position in servers. In 2001, Intel's server revenue was basically none existent. Now it is a multi-billion dollar industry for them.

Intel is entering the Mobile space, just like they did in desktop and server. It might take them a few years years to see major revenue, and decade or more to take over a majority of the market. The war is just beginning and Intel has barely gotten started. Sure Intel might fail spectacularly, but they've got a pretty good track record.
 
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Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
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I'm not questioning Intel's relevancy in that market and future markets, I'm questioning their dominant position, one that was built upon AMD's failure. Now the Intel fish is in a different pond with lots of other big fish. Big fish that Intel hasn't seen or competed against in a long time. In order to retain that bigger fish status, they'll have to continue to prosper and at a greater rate than they did with only the desktop/x86 space.





down 50%, not up 50%. What they need is up 50%. Stock dipped by more than 20% through 2 quarters and looks to dip even further going into and through Q4. Considering the release of Win8, the trend should have been upward, not down.

Samsung hasn't been hurting, either. Neither has Apple.



So during this same "gloomy" economic period, Qualcomm has grown, comparative Q3 earnings from year-to-year grew 20% and despite supply constraints they still posted a share increase of 5.7%

In case you missed it . DO you really really not understand what a 22nm haswell at say 8 watts as shown ,really means to the market as a whole?
 

pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
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Intel is entering the Mobile space, just like they did in desktop and server. It might take them a few years years to see major revenue, and decade or more to take over a majority of the market. The war is just beginning and Intel has barely gotten started. Sure Intel might fail spectacularly, but they've got a pretty good track record.

You're not listening to me. You're arguing with yourself yet again.

Intel hasn't seriously competed in a good 10 years. The server war was won by both AMD and Intel; they had considerable help cementing x86 as the dominant force there. In the user segment they haven't competed with AMD since Conroe, and that was against a single competitor.

Again, I'm not doubting Intel's position of big fish. What I'm doubting is their position of "biggest fish." In order to remain "biggest fish" they need to do better than everyone else, and right now that's not happening, and by an ever-accelerating margin in order to keep their fabs to themselves.

Intel's quarterly result was slightly above the previous guidance and came in at revenue of $13.5 billion, and net income of $3.0 billion. That is not exactly shabby, but does not reflect some tough spots. PC client revenue was down 8 percent from last year; server CPU revenue were up 6 percent from last year, but down 5 percent sequentially; and other architecture group revenue was down 14 percent year over year. Conclusively, Intel said that Q3 revenue reflected "a continuing tough economic environment."

Of course, Intel has prepared itself with a strong product offering for the year-end finish line and it has fueled the ecosystem with pretty much everything it could to spark innovation. For example, it sent out its engineers to help vendors to design their products and fine-tune them to meet performance expectations. Compared to previous product launches, this has been an unprecedented effort in its scale. During the earnings conference call, CEO Otellini stressed that there will be more than 140 Core-based Ultrabooks to be launched with Windows 8, 40 of which will feature touch screens. The $699 price point will be met and there will be even "bridge SKUs" that will beat that price, he promised. The executive also noted that there will be a handful of Ivy Bridge-based enterprise tablets in Q4, as well as about 20 Clover Trail-based consumer-targeted designs running Windows 8.

This is everything but a weak showing for an operating system launch as disruptive as Windows 8. So. it is even more puzzling how much doubt Intel expressed about the near future of the PC market. There seem to be so many variables in play at this time, and so much uncertainty about the consumer market that even Intel appears to have become uncertain about what to expect. Otellini said that "Q3 PC sales grew approximately half of the seasonal norm and reflected flat enterprise sales." Some improvements were seen at the end of the quarter due to Windows 8 system production, the CEO stated. However, for Q4 Otellini noted that Intel expects that the "overall PC business will grow at about half" of what is typical for the seasonal change. Keep in mind that this is not your average Christmas season. This is the season when Microsoft launches its most disruptive operating system since Windows 95 -- and a season that builds on an already slow quarter that reflected half of the normal seasonal growth.

Intel is apparently creating very low expectations but, in the end, it's better news to beat a low guidance than miss an overly confident forecast. But "half" the growth is pretty dramatic from every point of view, especially when we consider the impact a new Windows launch should have. Otellini remained rather distant from the expectation of Windows 8 sales, but said that Intel's "customers are taking a cautious inventory approach in the face of market uncertainty and the timing of the Windows 8 launch."

Chief financial officer Stacy Smith added that Intel's unit inventory levels are too high at this time, since the already-reduced expectation from September has not materialized yet, causing the company to scale back its utilization to bring back inventory to a much more healthy level. He also hinted that Intel is not relying on seasonality as a sales guidance anymore, which is remarkable in itself. "What we are seeing in the back-half of this year," Smith said, "I am less convinced that normal seasonality is a great guide. What we are seeing is that the customer is managing things very cautiously. Depending on how our sales go, I think we can have multiple different outcomes for [the upcoming] Q1."

On a product level, Otellini noted that it is not entirely clear to Intel what variables are impacting the current flatness in the PC market at which level, leaving an analyst to question whether the PC market could return to normal growth rates with a rather sketchy answer. He mentioned that he does not believe that the tablet is the final computing device the market is trending to at this time, but believes that currently created devices that combine notebooks with the features of a tablet are more likely to prevail and become the "high-volume runners". However, he also noted that he has no idea what this device will be and that he "honestly will not know for 12 months".

Some other topics of the earnings call included the switch to 14 nm processor production and how efficiently Intel will be able to do that. But all the upsides were not able to clear any doubts that Intel has a way out of the current slump. The last time this happened in a similar severity, following the dotcom bust, Intel aggressively pitched the investment and innovation path and the claim that only innovation can save the industry from an even deeper fall. Sure, Intel has innovation in its pockets as well, and it counts on a strong innovative showing from its customers, but the tone is much more subdued and, subjectively, less optimistic.

It is this uncertainty that may create even more concern and may raise some doubt about the real potential of Windows 8.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
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I think Intel understands Windows 8 has the potential for being a complete flop. They laying the groundwork it wont accelerate PC sales for the 4th qtr like a normal OS release should.
 

Blandge

Member
Jul 10, 2012
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You're not listening to me. You're arguing with yourself yet again.

Intel hasn't seriously competed in a good 10 years. The server war was won by both AMD and Intel; they had considerable help cementing x86 as the dominant force there. In the user segment they haven't competed with AMD since Conroe, and that was against a single competitor.

Intel STARTED competing in the server market 10 years ago, and has been competing ever since.

Again, I'm not doubting Intel's position of big fish. What I'm doubting is their position of "biggest fish." In order to remain "biggest fish" they need to do better than everyone else, and right now that's not happening, and by an ever-accelerating margin in order to keep their fabs to themselves.

You are putting words in my mouth. I never claimed that Intel is the "biggest fish" in the mobile space. It is VERY OBVIOUS that they are one of the smallest fish, considering they only released their first smartphone and tablet chips in 2012.

The point I am making is that Intel never started as the biggest fish in any market. They worked their way up from nothing every single time, and that's what they are doing in mobile. My educated guess is that Intel is GOING TO BE a big fish, possibly the biggest fish sometime 5-10 years down the road. You disagree. There is nothing wrong with that.
 

Khato

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2001
1,389
496
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I'm not questioning Intel's relevancy in that market and future markets, I'm questioning their dominant position, one that was built upon AMD's failure. Now the Intel fish is in a different pond with lots of other big fish. Big fish that Intel hasn't seen or competed against in a long time. In order to retain that bigger fish status, they'll have to continue to prosper and at a greater rate than they did with only the desktop/x86 space.
Actually, Intel wasn't built upon AMD's failure - AMD was the one competitor that actually stuck around, unlike all the rest that Intel competed with back in the 80's and 90's. As for the mobile pond that they're wading into, well, the current semiconductor marketshare numbers speak for how they stack up against this new competition no?

down 50%, not up 50%. What they need is up 50%. Stock dipped by more than 20% through 2 quarters and looks to dip even further going into and through Q4. Considering the release of Win8, the trend should have been upward, not down.

Samsung hasn't been hurting, either. Neither has Apple.
Again, what exactly is down 50%? Their revenue is down 5%, operating income down 26%, and net income down 17%. Yes it's down, yes they're forecasting that it's likely going to remain at the current level... but it's nowhere near 50%.

So during this same "gloomy" economic period, Qualcomm has grown, comparative Q3 earnings from year-to-year grew 20% and despite supply constraints they still posted a share increase of 5.7%
What a surprise - the first ARM SoC vendor to bring out their next generation chip is doing better than they were last year when they were a second-class citizen to all the A9 based designs.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,116
136
Aren't 90%+ off all Android apps written in Java? If so, getting an Android app to run on Intel should be relatively easy, all they need is good JIT for Android/Atom. This means no golden handcuffs for Android/Arm and a hence no major barrier to entry other than market momentum.

Intel has hired Mike Bell, who has already advanced the company's mobile efforts, and bought Infineon to bolster it's mobile hardware offering (and added ~4k employees, most with mobile experience). On top of that, Intel will have a boat load of 14nm capacity in 2014. Seems like they will be in a very credible position to compete in the mobile space.

I would think that Airmont should be a highly integrated and advanced SOC - meaning they can shoot more for the high end phone business and get better margins than the bulk of the market. Once they have good market penetration, they can sell the last generation mobile chip to a larger market at a lower price because that chip already paid for the R&D at a higher margin a year or so before.

I was thinking Intel didn't have a shot at mobile, but I'm starting to think we are just at the beginning of a reinvigorated Intel, hungry to achieve market success in mobile - and they are well on their way in developing the SOCs and infrastructure that will bring that success.

The next major step for Intel is landing a fairly large contract with a second tier mobile developer (Apple and Samsung are first tier and have their own SOCs). With HTC faltering, maybe Intel can buy their mobile assets?
 

Olikan

Platinum Member
Sep 23, 2011
2,023
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Again, what exactly is down 50%? Their revenue is down 5%, operating income down 26%, and net income down 17%. Yes it's down, yes they're forecasting that it's likely going to remain at the current level... but it's nowhere near 50%. .

5%+17%+26% = 48% :cool:
 

pelov

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2011
3,510
6
0
Evidence that the PC market is shrinking continues to mount up, with Intel the latest company to warn that it has missed its targets for the financial quarter.

In its quarterly financial report, Intel announced that its gross margin for the quarter would be around 57 per cent. While that's a pretty impressive figure, it's quite some way short of the estimated 61 per cent analysts had pegged the company receiving.

Revenue for the quarter is expected to be around $13 billion to $14 billion, roughly on target with analysts' expectations - but as anyone who has run a business will know, revenue is nothing if the margins are shot.

Intel Corp.'s INTC -0.55% profit dropped 14% in the third quarter, underscoring tough times for the personal computer sector amid competition from tablet-style devices and other headwinds.

Intel's other major business is chips for server systems, a market where demand has lately been strong and chip prices steady. But Intel said Tuesday that third-quarter revenue in what it calls the data center group declined 5% from the second quarter, with average prices down 7% over that period.

The company reported net income for the period ended Sept. 29 of $2.97 billion, or 58 cents a share, down from profit in the year-earlier period of $3.47 billion, or 65 cents. Revenue fell 5.5% to $13.5 billion, compared with Intel's prediction in September of $13.2 billion, plus or minus $300 million.

Intel's gross margin of 63.3% was higher than its prediction in September of about 62%. In the current quarter, Intel put the margin range at 57% to 58%.

Stacy Smith, Intel's chief financial officer, said Intel will respond to lower revenue by reducing its capital spending for 2012 by $1.2 billion from the amount the company expected in July. It now expects to spend about $11.3 billion.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443854204578060943152675174.html
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
1,596
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I like Ryan write up:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6378/...kening-market-intel-to-idle-some-fab-capacity

Its bad times for most. Google tumbles and is 20% down from predicted. Nokia is just exploding. No wonder AMD is going down the drain, as they have practicly ever earned their own money. Probably only TSMC and Samsung keeps their momentum. Intel can suddenly be the small boy in the class then.

It will be a brutal wake up call for Intel as thats is competitors in size and competence they have never ever met before. The economies of scale is against them as every one and his brother shares phone dies outside Intel idle fabs.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Intel STARTED competing in the server market 10 years ago, and has been competing ever since.



You are putting words in my mouth. I never claimed that Intel is the "biggest fish" in the mobile space. It is VERY OBVIOUS that they are one of the smallest fish, considering they only released their first smartphone and tablet chips in 2012.

The point I am making is that Intel never started as the biggest fish in any market. They worked their way up from nothing every single time, and that's what they are doing in mobile. My educated guess is that Intel is GOING TO BE a big fish, possibly the biggest fish sometime 5-10 years down the road. You disagree. There is nothing wrong with that.

Intel started to really compete in the server market with the Pentium Pro that was released in 1995. 10 years ago they already had a strong foothold in the market with Xeons and were attempting to break the last segment in the high end via Itanium. Itanium ironically suffered the same fate as other high end custom designs. Consumed by x86.

I think in the Wintel relationship Intel has the better position to continue in their dominant form. But they need to rethink their strategy of sticking to x86 in the mobile market. x86 requires complexity to decode instructions ARM doesnt. That means all things equal their chips will consume more power. Intel used to make xScale about 10 years ago. They were quite successful at it. They still hold licenses to ARM.