Originally posted by: Skoorb
A little bit, BrutusOriginally posted by: Brutuskend
Originally posted by: Electric Amish
Originally posted by: Brutuskend
How does Martha Stewart tell if her cellmate has been taking too many steroids?
She bends her over and does her up the butt with her clit!
What The F**K!?
Too much? :Q
And I get banned for asking of the video of paris hilton falling into a pool.
Right.
American oriented justice at it's best.
(good job on editing it though, thanks)
Anyone who has non public information on a company has to go through a process to sell shares in that company. You have to announce that you are going to sell shares and how many shares in advance. I don't know the whole process but it is designed to protect investors.
silverpig
Lifer
- Jul 29, 2001
- 27,703
- 12
- 81
with all the corruption, this is necessary, but studies show that this really does not help (like mexico)
In THEORY. Do you think Warren Buffet relies on public information. Yes or no? Say something so I laugh. Please.
If you knew anything about insider trading you'd know it's almost a non-issue with respect to company principals due to the rules they have to follow to avoid liability under insider trading laws, the issue really concerns friends, family and business associates of company principals. They even had to create a rule allowing them to sell shares under a trading plan in order to maintain some degree of fairness to company insiders: <url> http://www.mofo.com/news/print.cfm?ID=1133 <url> . You can't go and sell shares just before a major announcement from your company without getting caught it's as simple as that and it has been that way for years. 10b5-1 was created to allow company insiders a little more flexibility to sell shares under a plan, where before they had their hands tied behind their backs.
If you knew what you were talking about you'd know that the issue under discussion here involves insider information traveling to friends, family and associates.
Another stupid thing is comparing a stable, extremely narrowly held, diversified, longstanding firm like Berkshire Hathaway to a situation where insider trading allegations were made based on knowing about an event that the entire firm's fate nearly depended on. There isn't very likely going to be news that Berkshire Hathaway is going to declare bankruptcy anytime soon, and if there is such a declaration any insider that trades just before the announcement will suffer like Ms. Stewart or worse and they know it. Again the issue is about friends, family and associates.
Both Waksal and Stewart were quite stupid to trade in Imclone just before an anouncement that nearly meant the demise of the firm (I'd say Waksal was just a moron, Stewart was stupid for doing it considering everyone knew she was Waksal's friend and because she only salvaged $40,000).
Get your facts straight before you find others having a good laugh at your expense. The system isn't perfect, but they have laws to help prevent insider trading, and they do enforce them when someone does something as blatantly stupid as Waksal and Stewart did.
You are not understanding what I am saying one bit. I said do you think Warren Buffet relies solely on public information about a company? I bet he doesn't. I'm well aware it is more of an issue of people who have ties to those in the know at a company, but I seriously doubt that most significant trades are made with public information only. While it might not literally be insider trading, it is the fact that they have access to information through friends and other investors and spies to where they know much more about a company than the public. You can call it good business sense because that is what it is. It isn't always going to be about unloading a loss before damaging information comes out. A firm could have a breakthrough and people could invest months before they released it. Going to be hard to prove that an outside investor was tipped off to it. It happens all the time. Frankly, I agree that what Stewart did was moronic. It was obvious that she had close ties to Waksal, but that doesn't mean it takes that to create insider trading. Lots of people have "feelers" out to find the next big ride in the stock market. Maybe Buffet was a bad example because he trades in nothing but cash heavy well known corps. A better example I guess would be all the people that sold during the tech bubble, whereas lots of people went from being millionaires in stock to being back to normal. You can't honestly tell me that most of those people that got "out" in time didn't have some type of insider information. Lots of companies went on the rocks quickly and some people cashed out before they lost it all. You might call it luck or good sense, but some of it was having inside information.
I seriously doubt Buffet or any shrewd investor would invest in someone so close to them and then sell when the rug came out from under them. Sure Geico had been around for awhile, but I bet he didn't just look at EDGAR filings and then decide to purchase most of it. I'm sure he had information from the horse's mouth that it wasn't a fly by night insurance company. Sure we can argue they were around for awhile and publicly respected, but Worldcom/MCI had been around awhile too and was respected. I lost a nice chunk of change in Worldcom, but I'm sure a lot of people got out before the shell collapsed.
Well she got what she deserved! God has a way of paying people back. She was at the top of her game, all cocky, being cheap, disrespectful to those "below her". She thought she could do anything. Well Ms. Cheap, saving $50,000 by selling those stocks early wasn't worth it now huh? Now she loses hundreds of millions. The only thing that she listens to is money so she'll learn from this.
Oh..and remember OJ Simpson never did any time and got off completely free. What Martha stewart did means nothing to me.
Well, the problem is that anyone buying a lot stock in company right before a favorable disclosure will draw a lot of attention to themselves. Most of the time there isn't going to be much of a time gap between the time someone inside the company knows about a new development and the time they announce it. However, I can agree that there is likely enough time to help a few friends out (you can't even think of buying stock at that point if you work for the firm - you will be nailed). Then again people have been caught sharing insider information in these situations before, it just didn't get as much press as it didn't involve celebrities. In most of these cases it involves a mid-level employee that has access to this information and actually tells their friends. I doubt that anyone in upper management would risk their careers by telling friends. It is true that powerful people have access to information we don't have access to, but they can't act on that information by making large position moves without raising suspicion.
Besides the whole mentality of how rich people invest is different from how regular people invest. They aren't really looking for the next major stock as much as keeping a stable, diversified portfolio, and they have people whose job it is to do that. I'm sure these people who run the portfolios of wealthy business people have all sorts of information that they might use to buy small amounts of stock in a company using insider information (staying under the radar is more important to these guys).
In the Worldcom situation, I have no doubt that people working for Worldcom knew that they should get out, but I'll bet that most employee holdings were stock options and company matching shares, and they probably couldn't get out until their annual election season. They could have told a few friends and maybe even sold personal holdings of the stock (I don't know why anyone working for a company would actually buy shares in the company if their portfolio already has a lot of stock options and company matching shares in the company - it goes against the basic principle of diversification). So a few people probably sold their tiny amounts of shares in Worldcom after hearing from a friend, but it probably didn't raise any flags.
The bigger thing is that institutional investors and wealthy investors have the resources to hire the best financial managers to act quickly on hearing bad news. They have an inherent advantage over the individual investor, but nobody who wants to stay out of jail can sell one second before the information gets posted on a public information board. I will agree that these guys probably also know to watch for it and are ready to sell as soon as the information gets posted.
At the end of the day the small guy simply does not have the resources to track all the industries they have money in like rich, connected people who can afford to pay for information (by hiring people to track all the major industries). There's really nothing that can make that gap between people with large resources and those with modest resources in pretty much any field. However, in theory if you have the right alerts and are spend all your time monitoring the market you have the same ability to sell like anybody else no matter how rich and powerful they are. The system isn't perfect, but they do try to make it fair, to go any further would require that they take money from the likes of Warren Buffet and split it up to give to people like us. That's a little too fair for me.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
I can explain why they were high fiving each other... My buddy tried to short the stock earlier in the day, expecting a guilty verdict. He figured he might lose a little money if she won, but he'd make a shitload if she was found guilty. After attempting for half an hour to short the stock (before trading was halted), he finally called the company (he does day trading) - he was told that there were NO stocks available for shorting.
That means, EVERY stock available for shorting was shorted. Or, a LOT of traders made a nearly instant 33% profit. i.e. short a million dollars worth of shares, make over $300,000 in one day.
Sucks to be Martha. Of course she'll be living the easy life in jail if in fact she even gets jail time. Not only that she'll probably make millions on new crafts made out of cell bars and concrete.
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