Venture Capital Start-Ups

Amtrak

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May 29, 2005
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I figured it can't hurt to ask this here since there really isn't an online community for this type of thing.

What is the percentages that VC firms typically take after funding a start-up?
I have heard around 40% is nothing crazy.

It sounds pretty nuts, but I guess it's somewhat understandable considering it is 100% their risk, and none to you...

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ATOT Moderator ElFenix
 

Amtrak

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May 29, 2005
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What percent do they usually take after funding a business?
I have heard 40% or even more is not un-usual.
I guess it makes sense since the risk is 100% on their hands and not the guy with the idea..

 

Amtrak

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May 29, 2005
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Moderator:
Sorry post appeared to have not gone through first time and it did.
Please delete this one or other or move.Thank you.
 

Amtrak

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May 29, 2005
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We're interested in around $50,000.
It's very difficult to find banks, and angel investors giving out loans right now, and venture capital is very interested in these smaller amount loans as long as they have good potential.

http://www.npilf.com/

Is there any better solution for an investor?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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Originally posted by: Amtrak
I figured it can't hurt to ask this here since there really isn't an online community for this type of thing.

What is the percentages that VC firms typically take after funding a start-up?
I have heard around 40% is nothing crazy.

It sounds pretty nuts, but I guess it's somewhat understandable considering it is 100% their risk, and none to you...

Check HERE

As you can see "depends" is as good an answer as any (the linked article quotes 10-50%). In my experience, you'll find as many answers as there are industries, VC fims, strengths of start-ups and philosiphies. Your position of strength and negotiations skills factor in also - they aren't called 'Vulture' Capital firms for no reason. They do take on a lot of risk thogh, and they usually offer more than just capital (industry experience, contacts, management oversight and other expertise)

Fern

 

Amtrak

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May 29, 2005
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Thanks for the link Fern, I am going to take a look at this.

...And Umm... those of you asking what my idea is, well... For some reason I don't think it's a great idea to give it to hundreds of people as smart as I am who know about all this type of stuff and could easily utilize the information :p
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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Originally posted by: Amtrak
We're interested in around $50,000.
It's very difficult to find banks, and angel investors giving out loans right now, and venture capital is very interested in these smaller amount loans as long as they have good potential.

http://www.npilf.com/

Is there any better solution for an investor?

$50K strikes as below what VC firms look at (it's too small).

That is well in the range of the family/friends/angel investors.

Google the terms (venture capital, angel investors) and you'll find directories. VC firms and angel investors tend to stick to their industry of expertise. I.e., you'll want to find an investor (VC or angel) that specializes in what you're doing - that's what the directors are for. The directories tell you what projects the investor will consider (some are not interested in just their industry of expertise, but also require certain geographical location and that your company have reached a certain stage - i.e., no 'seed money' but maybe will do mezzanine funding etc)

Good Luck with it

Fern
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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A former rule of thumb is that they wanted a reasonable chance at getting 10x their money back in return after a few years. Why? Try these crude but reasonably accurate statistics:
* 70% of the companies they invest in will go bankrupt, losing all of thier money.
* 20% of the companies they invest in will go sideways, just barely paying back their money.
* 10% of the companies they invest in will boom, returning roughly 10x their money.

So, imagine you invested $1M each into 10 companies. On seven of them, you'll lose all $1M. On two of them, you'd get your $1M back. On one of them, you'll get $10M back. Total return: $12M on a $10M investment. That is just like earning 10% interest for two years. They could do that just by buying mutual funds, so why invest in a start up? If they don't see a way to get at LEAST 10x their money back, they won't invest.

The new rule is more like 30x. (with the stock market crash, they aren't as free with their money). So, you want $50,000. You have to show a way that in a couple of years that their portion of your business will be worth $1.5 million (30 times the initial investment).

Now to answer your question. Suppose you had a business model that showed your business will be worth $2M after a few of years. In that case, they'd need $1.5M / $2.0 M = 75% of your company to make that investment. Suppose on the other hand, your business model predicts that your company will be worth $10M after a few years. In that case, you'll need to sell $1.5M / $10M = 15% of the company.

To answer you, it all depends on your business predictions. And they have to be reasonable, realistic predictions. Telling people that an online pet store is worth billions of dollars doesn't work any more.

Anyways, $50k is way to small for venture capitalists. They'd laugh at you. They invest $1M or more generally.
 

joesmoke

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Nov 2, 2007
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Originally posted by: Amtrak
Thanks for the link Fern, I am going to take a look at this.

...And Umm... those of you asking what my idea is, well... For some reason I don't think it's a great idea to give it to hundreds of people as smart as I am who know about all this type of stuff and could easily utilize the information :p

d00d... the rules of the internet strictly prohibit such a thing ;)



i just came up with an idea, trade ya?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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Originally posted by: Amtrak
Thanks for the link Fern, I am going to take a look at this.

...And Umm... those of you asking what my idea is, well... For some reason I don't think it's a great idea to give it to hundreds of people as smart as I am who know about all this type of stuff and could easily utilize the information :p

You might want to be careful with VC's etc. as well.

No patent/copyright?

If not, non-disclosure agreements are your only fall-back; even so they're less than perfect.

Fern
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
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Originally posted by: Amtrak
We're interested in around $50,000.
It's very difficult to find banks, and angel investors giving out loans right now, and venture capital is very interested in these smaller amount loans as long as they have good potential.

http://www.npilf.com/

Is there any better solution for an investor?

Dude $50k? Take out a personal loan, go pull cash from your credit card. VCs will not give you the time of day, and any angel investor you get will probably be your family and friends.

There is a lot of money out there. If you have a legit idea $50k should be easy to get. But considering you only need $50k, your business idea is probably not scalable nor lucrative.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
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Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Amtrak
Thanks for the link Fern, I am going to take a look at this.

...And Umm... those of you asking what my idea is, well... For some reason I don't think it's a great idea to give it to hundreds of people as smart as I am who know about all this type of stuff and could easily utilize the information :p

You might want to be careful with VC's etc. as well.

No patent/copyright?

If not, non-disclosure agreements are your only fall-back; even so they're less than perfect.

Fern

No VC nor professional angel will sign an NDA for your pitch. I guarantee you that.

But yea, OP, don't post the idea. You will probably be met with 99% ridicule from these asshats.
 

Amtrak

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May 29, 2005
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Very interesting statistics dullard.. thank you.
And good point Fern about the non-disclosure, etc... that would be bad.
lol @ joesmoke :)


And as for $50k being too little, this firm specializes in smaller investments.
Believe me, I never dreamed of doing Venture Capital for something like this either, but this company approached me from my profile on an angel investor website that I had no luck on with smaller investments. Money is tight, and even with the VCs that is , so it seems something with a lot of potential like this for them they might say what the heck since $50k is like $20 to them...
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
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be careful man. that site just raises a lot of red flags.

and like i said, no VC will sign an NDA for an idea stage business pitch.
 

Amtrak

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May 29, 2005
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Thank you JS80... good point too. I hope this works okay.
I don't want to get in a bank loan, I am just hoping my investor wont take more then 35%.
50% would just be disgusting to me...
Nice avatar by the way!