Venezuelan troops are now stealing food

[Mxylplyx]

Link

The highly publicised campaign has also included government crackdowns on accused smuggling, with the military seizing 1,600 tonnes of food and sending 1,200 troops to the border with Colombia.

Jose Anzola, a director of food company Alimentos Polar, told reporters that troops stopped 27 of its trucks over the last three days and described the seizures as "illegal, arbitrary and irresponsible."

You know you fucked up when theres a black market for basic food stocks. So many hard core socialists think they can just ignore the basic principles of economics, and mandate a price on something thinking it will make it affordable. Hell, why dont we just mandate a minimum wage of 75K a year in the US. Voila, poverty is gone...right?

This thread will probably be boring. Didnt all of our Chavez supporters finally wake up?? Chavez might actually be sincere in his bone headed attempts to help his people, but sincerity doesnt a good leader make. Reality and ideals usually dont mesh well together, which is why most big government socialist programs sound great in a campaign speech, and suck ass in reality.

 

[StageLeft]

Chavez might actually be sincere in his bone headed attempts to help his people

Uh, I don't think so. He's a fvckpot like other dictatorial clowns and he's leading his country exactly where the voters asked him to, down the toilet bowl.

 

[alchemize]

"Helping people" is merely a tool to his seizing and holding power.

 

[sandorski]

Hopefully Venezuelans turf him.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
he's leading his country exactly where the voters asked him to, down the toilet bowl.

Gee, doesn't that sound too familiar.

Originally posted by: alchemize
"Helping people" is merely a tool to his seizing and holding power.

That does, too.

Well, "helping" in regards to Hillary.

And, "saving" in regards to any of the neo-cons.

 

[Delita]

Chavez has no idea what he is talking about half the time

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
Link

The highly publicised campaign has also included government crackdowns on accused smuggling, with the military seizing 1,600 tonnes of food and sending 1,200 troops to the border with Colombia.

Jose Anzola, a director of food company Alimentos Polar, told reporters that troops stopped 27 of its trucks over the last three days and described the seizures as "illegal, arbitrary and irresponsible."

You know you fucked up when theres a black market for basic food stocks. So many hard core socialists think they can just ignore the basic principles of economics, and mandate a price on something thinking it will make it affordable. Hell, why dont we just mandate a minimum wage of 75K a year in the US. Voila, poverty is gone...right?

This thread will probably be boring. Didnt all of our Chavez supporters finally wake up?? Chavez might actually be sincere in his bone headed attempts to help his people, but sincerity doesnt a good leader make. Reality and ideals usually dont mesh well together, which is why most big government socialist programs sound great in a campaign speech, and suck ass in reality.

Uh, fixing low prices on products for a social policy, like reducing disease or feeding people, works very well when done on a small scale.

The US has long had a 'cheap food' policy.

Which would work better for a needle exchange program: the free needles, or selling needles?

It's not uncommon for a thinking society to recognize something like an issue of reducing disease having a much greater benefit than the cost of something like free needles.

Does Sweden 'ignore the basic principles of economics' too? No, you are just spewing ignorance with your straw man about the high minimum wage.

I'm for a minimum wage; I'm against an unreasonably high minimum wage. I'm for some people making a lot more than others; I'm against the huge extremes of that, when the excesses are based on abusing the power wealth brings, and not for things more useful to society, where such concentrations of wealth actually reduce the rewards available to incent people to create new things.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: alchemize
"Helping people" is merely a tool to his seizing and holding power.

Well, that's one of the more perverse political arguments I can remember ever seeing.

What is government for, but to help people?

Those damn evil liberals, HELPING PEOPLE because it gets them elected - what we need instead are RIGHT WINGERS who, to get power, ummm what do they do again?

This is why the righties are so extreme in their use of straw men about liberals.

You can count in any such discussion on seeing them in 2 seconds start with the extreme 'helping people' straw men, why? Because with their ignorance of the actual issues, all they have is their one little bit about how there are limits to what the government can do, to how much 'help' is productive, and so they turn any discussion into creating some extreme example, and then saying that's impractical, as if they just answered the actual issue.

It's like watching children - they are unaware of their own ignorance, and just keep repeating the same simple point.

 

[jman19]

But but but I thought Venezuela was going to be a utopia for the people :shocked:

Chavez is like all of the other socialist authoritarians before him - talking about the good of the people while doing most of the good for himself.

 

[Red Dawn]

Chavez, Somosa or Pinochet , they're all the same, just Latin American Dictators with one exception, we don't support Chavez.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: alchemize
"Helping people" is merely a tool to his seizing and holding power.

Well, that's one of the more perverse political arguments I can remember ever seeing.

What is government for, but to help people?

Those damn evil liberals, HELPING PEOPLE because it gets them elected - what we need instead are RIGHT WINGERS who, to get power, ummm what do they do again?

This is why the righties are so extreme in their use of straw men about liberals.

You can count in any such discussion on seeing them in 2 seconds start with the extreme 'helping people' straw men, why? Because with their ignorance of the actual issues, all they have is their one little bit about how there are limits to what the government can do, to how much 'help' is productive, and so they turn any discussion into creating some extreme example, and then saying that's impractical, as if they just answered the actual issue.

It's like watching children - they are unaware of their own ignorance, and just keep repeating the same simple point.

The government doesn't exist to help people. You're supposed to help yourself. The government exists to protect our rights and sovereignty. A great democrat once said, "Ask not what your country can do for you...."

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: alchemize
"Helping people" is merely a tool to his seizing and holding power.

Well, that's one of the more perverse political arguments I can remember ever seeing.

What is government for, but to help people?

Those damn evil liberals, HELPING PEOPLE because it gets them elected - what we need instead are RIGHT WINGERS who, to get power, ummm what do they do again?

This is why the righties are so extreme in their use of straw men about liberals.

You can count in any such discussion on seeing them in 2 seconds start with the extreme 'helping people' straw men, why? Because with their ignorance of the actual issues, all they have is their one little bit about how there are limits to what the government can do, to how much 'help' is productive, and so they turn any discussion into creating some extreme example, and then saying that's impractical, as if they just answered the actual issue.

It's like watching children - they are unaware of their own ignorance, and just keep repeating the same simple point.

LAUGHING OUT LOUD!!! Oops hit enter too quick.

Let's see - expanding the supreme court then loading it up with his shills.
Attempting to amend the constitution so he can stay in power forever.

Just a couple of examples of where power fits into his list of priorities.

 

[Genx87]

Good to see Craig is still holding onto the dream Chavez promised that 21st century socialism is different from its 20th century brother.

Black markets arent uncommon in any economy. But what I found interesting when reading about black markets in the Soviet Union and Eastern Bloc countries. It is often attributed to proping up those failed economies much longer than they should have survived. This should be the first clue to the wanna be socialists in the world their system is a failure. It requires the anarchy of a black market to survive.

 

[PokerGuy]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
Link
Didnt all of our Chavez supporters finally wake up??

Huh? Chavez supporters? I didn't know we had any. The guys just like every other power-mad two-bit dictators seen all over the world. The only thing that makes him more dangerous is that he has a ready (and continuing) supply of money (oil) available to use toward his crazy ideas.

 

[JosephBAdams]

I would bet my life that you have no idea what neoconservatism actually is...

 

[Mail5398]

If Chavez really wants to help the people of Venezuela, he should stop buying jets, tanks, guns, and the like and subsidize food production with all of his oil money.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
Link
Didnt all of our Chavez supporters finally wake up??

Huh? Chavez supporters? I didn't know we had any. The guys just like every other power-mad two-bit dictators seen all over the world. The only thing that makes him more dangerous is that he has a ready (and continuing) supply of money (oil) available to use toward his crazy ideas.

There were a lot, especially among the Canadians on this forum.

 

[spittledip]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Chavez might actually be sincere in his bone headed attempts to help his people

Uh, I don't think so. He's a fvckpot like other dictatorial clowns and he's leading his country exactly where the voters asked him to, down the toilet bowl.

I think Chavez is somewhat sincere in his desire to help the less fortunate, but he goes about it in the wrong way and seems to proud to take wise counsel. His thinking is obviously too reactionary also. He is not a good leader. He alienates too many citizens with his policies. To be fair, some of those who he has alienated were money whores who sold out the country for their own benefit. Too bad he is not wiser in his dealings; he could have made Venezuela into a great country.

 

[Jhhnn]

Not that I'm any great supporter of Chavez, but it must be pointed out that the seized food was being exported to Colombia, something the original link doesn't state-

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N22553553.htm

Doesn't speak well of the concern for their countrymen by Venezuelan capitalists... Venezuela's huge underclass is why Chavez came to power in the first place, and is a symptom of the poor distribution of wealth and resources under the old regime. It's not as if there's no profit in selling the food in Venezuela under price controls, just that it's not as much...

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Not that I'm any great supporter of Chavez, but it must be pointed out that the seized food was being exported to Colombia, something the original link doesn't state-

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N22553553.htm

Doesn't speak well of the concern for their countrymen by Venezuelan capitalists... Venezuela's huge underclass is why Chavez came to power in the first place, and is a symptom of the poor distribution of wealth and resources under the old regime. It's not as if there's no profit in selling the food in Venezuela under price controls, just that it's not as much...

Ah, that changes things somewhat. However, Chavez needs to rethink his Idealism if he wants to help Venezuelans. I suspect he won't though and as such Venezuelans need to replace him come the next Election. Unfortunately for them, they'll probably just end up in the same situation they were in before Chavez. What they need is a Centrist, someone between extreme Right and extreme Left.

 

[maluckey]

ANYONE, not wanting to rob their own people of money and/or freedom could help. That is sadly not the case in most Central and South American countries.

Central and South America are rich in resouces and oil, but instead of building a strong and free soceity, most of their leaders build a strong bank account and crush freedom as soon as they see it.