Why should a country not claim ownership to it's mineral wealth in the name of the people? Alaska pays folk from the oil they pump. Socialist motherfuckers.
- Dec 29, 2002
- 27,153
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WelshBloke
Lifer
- Jan 12, 2005
- 31,364
- 9,237
- 136
Ummmm, isn't the legal mining being done mostly by multinational corps so the gold miners pay has nothing to do with the price per ounce?
Like people claiming to be all about self reliance and then jumping on social security the instant they are able?
QuantumPion
Diamond Member
- Jun 27, 2005
- 6,010
- 1
- 76
The government claimed S.S. was our money. There is no contradiction of small government proponents wanting their own investments back.
The government sold the idea of S.S. on the basis that it was a retirement program, not a welfare program. Naturally, people would be miffed if after 50 years of paying into the program and voting for politicians that said it was a retirement program, they turned around and said "nope sorry we lied it's actually just welfare, and since we wasted all your money on waste and fraud, we can't afford to pay you any more."
Somewhere Sean Penn is suggesting that everybody who posts bad things about Hugo Chavez in this thread get thrown in jail.
Fair enough. I think it's unfair to say that opponents - idiots they are - of programs can't take advantage of the programs they pay into.
Except you're implying a lie. Social Security has never not paid one dollar. It's fully funded for decades to come. If nothing is done, the worst payments will be 80%.
So, there is nothing accurate about the 'danger of you will pay in and get nothing back'. That's scare propagandistic lies to build opposition, for the interest of the rich.
Not somewhere, but right here, you are a liar. Post one time Sean Penn has said anything like what you are lying about. Sean Penn great guy, you scummy liar.
Here you go you communist.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/11/sean-penn-hugo-chavez-venezuela
Thanks, genocidal fascist.
I don't recall that quote. It was said on the live Bill Maher program, so could be said to be a 'slip of the tongue' more than prepared comments, than something he has repeated. So, am I saying that it should be dismissed as nothing? No - actually I think to say it at all, even as an emotional outburst in anger about the media however justified, that it shows a problem.
I think he should retract it.
There is a metaphorical interpretation possible - how often do we say 'there ougta be a law' type comments we don't mean literally. How often do we comment on behavior we find disgusting or harmful with a comment about 'they belong in jail' without meaning it literally. Is that how he meant it? It seems like a good chance. If that was his literal view, we'd probably have heard it more. It's not consistent with his other views.
He has a good point in the rest of his comments, if you take out the 'prison' sentence. Just this week I saw a Fox article refer to 'strongman Chavez' instead of 'President Chavez', and that is clear 'media bias'; as Penn notes, the elections in Venezuela have been quite transparent reportedly, more than other countries there. But I did not consider advocating putting the moral criminals at Fox in prison.
This is a pretty serious issue he raises - but his prison comment is terrible, as reported. (I watch the show and saw him on it, but missed that comment).
Anyway, I withdraw my comments about your previous post - you were right to mock Penn for the comment.
Here is an article with Penn making the same allegations about the media bias after that show - but not a word about prison for doing so:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sean-penn/venezuela-sanctions_b_871248.html
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Lulz, socialists
Chavez just has the best interest of his people in mind! Don't you understand?
Thus this further adds to the weight behind the argument that social security was/is just a huge ponzi scheme. If and when the feds turn around and raise taxes to keep it afloat this point will be succinctly highlighted to great effect.
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Sorry for the delay. Off the top of my head:
Chavez's CNE has a large political base. Venezuela remains a developing state as is has a greater proportion of its population that would be classified as living in poverty. Such a block has been motivated to vote as realises the strength of its vote. That you and others do not agree with that majority block swing for a political vote is a point they may be open in a pluralistic democracy, but it is not valid to misrepresent validated polling as being undemocratic and the elected government as a dictatorship.
In Venezuela, as in many developing states, it is common to distinguish political boundaries upon that of social and economic status. The history of a minority and wealthy ruling class often deem itself more worthy of rule and is often quite disappointed when the underclass gains political control. Upon that stark issue in a multi-party democratic state it is not a matter communism or fascism.
Venezuela has its validated government. Accept that reality. The policies and actions of any government should certainly be open for debate and critique.
I guess the folk in Alaska get paid for oil because they can see Mother Russia. Nice way to statealize the oil by statealizing the oil companies profits. Milk those fucking corporations you fucking Alaska socialists. Drill baby drill and put the pipe right in my pocket.
Let us know when the state of Alaska (or the US) "nationalizes" established private oil fields and kicks out private oil corporations running those fields so that this comparison of yours can even remotely be parallel to what Venezuela, along with their dictator and chief are doing.
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Can you attempt to compile an argument without demonstrably proved falsehoods?
Being wrong does a disservice to any credible strength of whatever argument you combine with your hyperbolic errors.
It'll be interesting to see if Venezuela's actions hurt or help it in the long run.
South America has typically been continent exploited by more powerful nations and multinational corporations, preventing the majority of the nations from developing strong governments or industry.
By effectively kicking out all foreign investment, Venezuela's industry will have to stand on its own. However, low trade barriers in the rest of the world really mean that a country, especially a small one, should focus on specialization and not going on its own for everything. I think Venezuela will have to come back to the bargaining table with the multinational corporations in a decade or two, and it will be interesting to see if its from a stronger or weaker position.
(IE, we command too much market potential to be ignored versus we screwed you before, here's some really favorably terms just to get you back here)
China is able to do it, but China is just so massive in terms of capability, population, and resources that corporations HAVE to be in China, Venezuela has no such draw.
South America has typically been continent exploited by more powerful nations and multinational corporations, preventing the majority of the nations from developing strong governments or industry.
By effectively kicking out all foreign investment, Venezuela's industry will have to stand on its own. However, low trade barriers in the rest of the world really mean that a country, especially a small one, should focus on specialization and not going on its own for everything. I think Venezuela will have to come back to the bargaining table with the multinational corporations in a decade or two, and it will be interesting to see if its from a stronger or weaker position.
(IE, we command too much market potential to be ignored versus we screwed you before, here's some really favorably terms just to get you back here)
China is able to do it, but China is just so massive in terms of capability, population, and resources that corporations HAVE to be in China, Venezuela has no such draw.
Spikesoldier
Diamond Member
- Oct 15, 2001
- 6,766
- 0
- 0
id rather put my retirement into something that will have a positive future value, not a negative one.
if i could opt out, i would.
HendrixFan
Diamond Member
- Oct 18, 2001
- 4,646
- 0
- 71
Prior to Chavez , here the great achievement of the far right power
that did practice "capitalists" , in fact predatory, economic system
in Venezuela ...
:biggrin::biggrin:
that did practice "capitalists" , in fact predatory, economic system
in Venezuela ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela
:biggrin::biggrin:
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