VAT style national sales tax being considered...quietly

[Slew Foot]

Any politician that proposes this is going to get run out on rails.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Of course it would be in addition, it will replace nothing. I see it as almost inevitable. Most other western countries do it, right? In Canada there is a 15% tax, which is a combo of federal and provincial.

In Canada there is a 5% tax.

In most provinces there is a similar tax; in some provinces the two sum to 15%.

Edit - I lied, in NO province is the effective tax rate 15%

 

[lsquare]

Sales tax is retarded because it's regressive taxation. It affects poor people much more than it affects rich people.

Suppose sales tax is 5% and you're a typical poor person who spends every dime made. That means 5% of your gross income is going to sales tax.

If you're a richer person who makes maybe 100k and only spend half of it, the 5% sales tax is effectively only 2.5%. The rest of your money can be invested tax free. It's bullshit.

Like what Zebo said, almost every tax is regressive. Depending on which state you live in, you might already be paying sales tax already.

Even if the sales tax is 5%, it doesn't mean 5% of your gross income is going to sales tax. Unless my math is totally off, I don't understand how 5% of your income will go to the government. The more you spend, the more you pay.

 

[lsquare]

In Canada there is a 5% tax.

In most provinces there is a similar tax; in some provinces the two sum to 15%.

Edit - I lied, in NO province is the effective tax rate 15%

In Canada, there is something of a national VAT called the GST which is 5%. The PST or Provincial Sales Tax (equivalent to a state sales tax in the US) varies by province. In Alberta, there is no PST so you only pay GST on your purchases.

 

[bfdd]

Of course it would be in addition, it will replace nothing. I see it as almost inevitable. Most other western countries do it, right? In Canada there is a 15% tax, which is a combo of federal and provincial.

So I already pay a state sales tax, state income tax, and federal income tax. Now the feds want to tax my purchases also? They aren't cool with almost half my paycheck already? Why not do a VAT and get rid of income tax. You know to put more money in the pockets of the population that is still working so we can spend more.

 

[3chordcharlie]

In Canada, there is something of a national VAT called the GST which is 5%. The PST or Provincial Sales Tax (equivalent to a state sales tax in the US) varies by province. In Alberta, there is no PST so you only pay GST on your purchases.

Thanks boss, I am aware of the taxes in my country

I just didn't know all the individual provincial rates off the top of my head.

 

[bfdd]

White liberals are often just as ignorant, but at least they pretend to care about the working class. Hopefully, class privileged white liberals realize that poverty is not (necessarily) a product of stupidity or laziness.

I agree, liberalism is not the cure for poverty. But compared to BoberFett's libertarianism, liberalism is great.

You know what they say about assuming things right? I've made well more than the average house hold income in a year and I've made just around a minimum wage salary in a year, right now I'm just shy of the national average for a household.. I would prefer some sort of flat rate or federal sales tax also. 20% of what I make no matter how much I make seems pretty fair to me.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Well we're going to have to tax the hell out of people to pay for what we've "accomplished" over the last year or so, especially yesterday.

 

[ebaycj]

This tired argument again. :roll: Taxes are not supposed to be about equalizing lifestyles. They're about supporting this country. 1% of a poor person's income is the exact same as 1% of a wealthy person's income when it comes to paying for the benefit of living in this country. If the poor don't like paying for government, they should stop voting to make it bigger. Totally flat tax is the only fair option. XX% across the board, no deductions, no exceptions.

You really believe that a wealthy person is not getting a greater utility (protecting his wealth) out of our military than a poor person?

 

[ebaycj]

If you read carefully, you will notice that I am implying that my parents are lucky. There are millions of people who worked retail for $7 an hour, just like my mother, but didn't end up in our position.

Wal-Mart? Nah, $7 an hour is too much.

 

[ShawnD1]

Even if the sales tax is 5%, it doesn't mean 5% of your gross income is going to sales tax. Unless my math is totally off, I don't understand how 5% of your income will go to the government. The more you spend, the more you pay.

http://hr.cch.com/news/hrm/100906a.asp

About 65 percent of Americans are dependent on their next paycheck to meet current living expenses, according to a recent survey conducted by the American Payroll Association (APA), a nonprofit association for payroll professionals.

The majority of workers in the U.S. would be hard-pressed to meet their financial obligations if their next paycheck were delayed for just a week,

Saving 0% means you spend 100% of your net income.

I remember crunching numbers on this. I was curious to see what the tax difference was between the provinces of Alberta and Newfoundland in Canada. At my income level, as a lower class person before going to university, my taxes would be almost doubled in Newfoundland. It wasn't the income tax that killed it, but the sales tax. Alberta sales tax is 5%, the national tax rate. Newfoundland's sales tax rate is 13%. When you're paying sales tax on every dollar that isn't going into rent, this shit adds up quickly.

Suppose you make $30,000 per year. After income tax and paying rent, you have about $20,000 left.
5% sales tax on 20k = $1,000
13% sales tax on 20k = $2,600

What kind of evil person would do this to poor people? Who looked at people working dead end jobs and thought "hey you know what would be funny? Let's tax the fuck out of them even though they're already poor!"

 

[ebaycj]

Lucky to have been born in America, yes. Beyond that, luck has nothing to do with it. Everyone in this country regardless of color or history has the same opportunity I do. To deny that is to make a mockery of everyone who HAS pulled themselves out of poverty and tell them that what they did was pure luck and had nothing to do with their ability.

Can you really say that with a straight face?

 

[bobsmith1492]

Can you really say that with a straight face?

What do you think opportunity means?

Does it mean they had the opportunity to have rich parents? Did they have the opportunity to grow up in a nice neighborhood?

Or did they have the opportunity to go out, work hard, work honestly, and make a good living?

 

[Modelworks]

Is there anyone in Congress who, God forbid, thinks the problem is not that they don't have enough money, but that they spend too much?

sadly no. They are of the opinion that if you spend enough the debt will increase to the point that it rolls over back to 0.

 

[sandorski]

This tired argument again. :roll: Taxes are not supposed to be about equalizing lifestyles. They're about supporting this country. 1% of a poor person's income is the exact same as 1% of a wealthy person's income when it comes to paying for the benefit of living in this country. If the poor don't like paying for government, they should stop voting to make it bigger. Totally flat tax is the only fair option. XX% across the board, no deductions, no exceptions.

That's not the Point, at all.

edit: Crap, didn't see how old this thread was.

 

[piasabird]

I could see more states following Florida and other states and doing away with income tax and replacing it with sales tax.

Feel free to get the IRS to follow them. Just think of the money people could save if they did not have to file federal income tax forms.

When I look at all the stupid ways try to hide their income and all the tax laws to tax this and that, it may be easier just to tax the average joe by using sales tax. We are always buying good. However, rich people would probably buy stuff overseas if there was less tax. When Clinton had a luxury tax rich people were buying their yaghts (big boats) overseas to escape the tax.

I could see a combination of a flat tax and a national sales tax.

 

[ShawnD1]

Just think of the money people could save if they did not have to file federal income tax forms.

Most people get paid when they file income tax forms. That's why it's called a tax return.

That's also why I lol at the Ron Paul supporters who said they wouldn't file tax returns that year because income tax was unconstitutional. So you want the government to keep your money?

 

[nonlnear]

Most people get paid when they file income tax forms. That's why it's called a tax return.

That's also why I lol at the Ron Paul supporters who said they wouldn't file tax returns that year because income tax was unconstitutional. So you want the government to keep your money?

This post is fail.

And no, I'm not commenting on the merits of these schemes, only your clear ignorance of what they mean!

 

[piasabird]

We are already borrowing money to pay for SSN AND MEDICARE. There is no guarantee that the federal government will not just waste your healthcare dollars. None at all.