Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

Gdepp519

Senior member
Jun 18, 2003
498
0
76
V:SOH

I was originally pretty gun'hoe about this new MMO and even got into beta..
but I've stopped playing because it just didn't draw me into the game like.. Everquest
or Warcraft.. but I found warcraft was a bit too easy for my taste..

 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
I haven't had a chance to look at Vanguard much, but your comments on other MMOs make me wonder... what exactly makes a good MMO? I mean, a lot of people like WoW, but I do agree with your comment on how it may be too easy (or too user friendly).

So I guess I'm wondering, since you seemed to enjoy parts of Everquest and WoW, what would you change about the games to make them better?
 

Feneant2

Golden Member
May 26, 2004
1,418
30
91
Everyone who played the original Everquest would agree that the game had a 'feel' to it. The kind of feeling that made you want to go back and play some more.

A lot of people really hoped that Vanguard would offer that feeling but it doesn't to this point. I think one reason is because WoW and now Eq2 are offering much quicker level'ing treadmills. The Vanguard developers went the same way to make it easy to learn and master. People don't learn about the lore or the story, they just rush through everything as quickly as they can to go off instancing. Personnally, I believe that it would be a much better game if they had gone the original Everquest direction prior to the Planes of Power expansion.

It will be released in January if the dates are accurate, I look forward to it only because it'll be on Sony Station Access so you can pay one monthly fee to play Eq1, Eq2, Vanguard and other games and I hope it'll bring new folks into Everquest 2 (which is a better game than Vanguard currently).

Oh, and from playing WoW and meeting its players, Vanguard is a game that will cater to current Eq2 players much more than WoW players.
 

Gdepp519

Senior member
Jun 18, 2003
498
0
76
Originally posted by: Feneant2
Everyone who played the original Everquest would agree that the game had a 'feel' to it. The kind of feeling that made you want to go back and play some more.

A lot of people really hoped that Vanguard would offer that feeling but it doesn't to this point. I think one reason is because WoW and now Eq2 are offering much quicker level'ing treadmills. The Vanguard developers went the same way to make it easy to learn and master. People don't learn about the lore or the story, they just rush through everything as quickly as they can to go off instancing. Personnally, I believe that it would be a much better game if they had gone the original Everquest direction prior to the Planes of Power expansion.

It will be released in January if the dates are accurate, I look forward to it only because it'll be on Sony Station Access so you can pay one monthly fee to play Eq1, Eq2, Vanguard and other games and I hope it'll bring new folks into Everquest 2 (which is a better game than Vanguard currently).

Oh, and from playing WoW and meeting its players, Vanguard is a game that will cater to current Eq2 players much more than WoW players.



I def agree with you on everything you've said..
 

Gdepp519

Senior member
Jun 18, 2003
498
0
76
Originally posted by: Aikouka
I haven't had a chance to look at Vanguard much, but your comments on other MMOs make me wonder... what exactly makes a good MMO? I mean, a lot of people like WoW, but I do agree with your comment on how it may be too easy (or too user friendly).

So I guess I'm wondering, since you seemed to enjoy parts of Everquest and WoW, what would you change about the games to make them better?



well when i did play wow.. I played.. because i like.. playing with people.. I was never really interested in playing solo all the time.... and WoW didn't really cater to that.. they catered more towards solo play with most of their quest. and then every lvl or so you'd reach a dungeon where you would need a group of people....

I thought the game itself was extremely fun.. but also something else that bugged me was the amount of younger kids playing the game.. and how irritating that got at times.. even though im just 23..


EQ i have yet to really understand what about the game.. it was that constantly draws me in.. and even recently.. when i joined the sleeper progression server and dual boxed a mage/wizard... i just like the grind.. and getting all the high level content.. but i must admit i use to hate that day long raids... those use to piss me off...

I have to think some more to myself of why EQ drawed me in so much...
 

Gdepp519

Senior member
Jun 18, 2003
498
0
76
and also when i did play Vanguard.. the xp progression is alot slower that EQ...

You know what i think it is.. is that EQ was the first of its.. kind.. and all these new mmo's seem to copy off of each other.. but uses a different UI, graphics and so on... maybe I'm just looking for something new and fresh..

Till then ill play DOTA:Warcraft III screen name is Eye_V :D


and another crazy factoid.. i've beta tested a couple games.. and i've never had a game that needs 20gb of space... maybe that's cause they don't want there to be any zones in the game like.. EQ.. but 20gb is intense.. lolol...
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: Feneant2
Everyone who played the original Everquest would agree that the game had a 'feel' to it. The kind of feeling that made you want to go back and play some more.

A lot of people really hoped that Vanguard would offer that feeling but it doesn't to this point. I think one reason is because WoW and now Eq2 are offering much quicker level'ing treadmills. The Vanguard developers went the same way to make it easy to learn and master. People don't learn about the lore or the story, they just rush through everything as quickly as they can to go off instancing. Personnally, I believe that it would be a much better game if they had gone the original Everquest direction prior to the Planes of Power expansion.

It will be released in January if the dates are accurate, I look forward to it only because it'll be on Sony Station Access so you can pay one monthly fee to play Eq1, Eq2, Vanguard and other games and I hope it'll bring new folks into Everquest 2 (which is a better game than Vanguard currently).

Oh, and from playing WoW and meeting its players, Vanguard is a game that will cater to current Eq2 players much more than WoW players.

I think it had more to do with first love sydrome. They could re-release the original EQ tomorrow and people would still find it doesnt have the same feeling. You find this a lot in the 2nd and 3rd generation MMOs with people who played the original Ultima Online and EQ.

The people who played WoW as their first will same the same things about the next generation of MMO's.



 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Originally posted by: Gdepp519
well when i did play wow.. I played.. because i like.. playing with people.. I was never really interested in playing solo all the time.... and WoW didn't really cater to that.. they catered more towards solo play with most of their quest. and then every lvl or so you'd reach a dungeon where you would need a group of people....

Quite understandable, you can play with others, but there are quests that just don't tailor to that (gather quests). I've actually grown accustom to not wanting to play with people in WoW as I find most people are idiots that I'd rather not even talk to... I guess that goes onto your other point.

Originally posted by: Gdepp519
I thought the game itself was extremely fun.. but also something else that bugged me was the amount of younger kids playing the game.. and how irritating that got at times.. even though im just 23..

It is quite bothersome and I agree. It's the Windows effect of gaming, the more popular something is, the higher concentration of annoying little kids and even annoying older gamers. Barrens chat could scare away even the hardcore-ist of gamers.

Originally posted by: Genx87
I think it had more to do with first love sydrome. They could re-release the original EQ tomorrow and people would still find it doesnt have the same feeling. You find this a lot in the 2nd and 3rd generation MMOs with people who played the original Ultima Online and EQ.

I'm not sure, I actually played Ragnarok Online, Anarchy Online and Everquest before I played World of Warcraft and the only game I actually like is the latter. There was just something missing in the first three that I found in WoW. Although, I'm not the type of person who blazes through the game... I'm the guy who sneaks around places reading the lore books to read about the game. The person who read the story section of the WoW manual and knows a lot about the Warcraft history because it makes the game more interesting. Although, you can go through the entire game without understanding the history, and that's a bit of a shame. I try to get my brother to actually read the history, but he won't even touch it (and I'm the one who hates reading :p)
 

Gdepp519

Senior member
Jun 18, 2003
498
0
76
haha.. thats funny.. i've actually never really read the lore either.. maybe thats the component im missing.. looks like i have some reading.. for the afternoon at work :D
 

CKent

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
9,020
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Feneant2
Everyone who played the original Everquest would agree that the game had a 'feel' to it. The kind of feeling that made you want to go back and play some more.

A lot of people really hoped that Vanguard would offer that feeling but it doesn't to this point. I think one reason is because WoW and now Eq2 are offering much quicker level'ing treadmills. The Vanguard developers went the same way to make it easy to learn and master. People don't learn about the lore or the story, they just rush through everything as quickly as they can to go off instancing. Personnally, I believe that it would be a much better game if they had gone the original Everquest direction prior to the Planes of Power expansion.

It will be released in January if the dates are accurate, I look forward to it only because it'll be on Sony Station Access so you can pay one monthly fee to play Eq1, Eq2, Vanguard and other games and I hope it'll bring new folks into Everquest 2 (which is a better game than Vanguard currently).

Oh, and from playing WoW and meeting its players, Vanguard is a game that will cater to current Eq2 players much more than WoW players.

I think it had more to do with first love sydrome. They could re-release the original EQ tomorrow and people would still find it doesnt have the same feeling. You find this a lot in the 2nd and 3rd generation MMOs with people who played the original Ultima Online and EQ.

The people who played WoW as their first will same the same things about the next generation of MMO's.

Nah... You really think they'll look back through rose-tinted glasses and reminisce about people saying "2 y wut b ne1 plz 4 u" ? :laugh:

EQ1 was unique. It forced the player to decide what he/she wanted from the game rather than hustling them along on a preconceived treadmill. Sort of like how a book forces you to use your imagination while a TV show / movie lays it all out for you to see.

It was very immersive; the world was vast and dangerous. If you lost your corpse you could be in a world of sh!t, the exp loss being only a small part of it. While not fully necessary for some classes, grouping was highly encouraged for all. These are no-nos for a lot of players, and that was a part of the immersion and appeal. Brad's infamous Vision didn't cave in to the playerbase.

Tradeskills were difficult, complex, rewarding, and added to the interaction. Droppable gear gave the game a lot of character; rather than dropping off any appropriate level mob in the world, item_01 dropped off mob_A in zone_X and one could work to obtain it in a straightforward manner rather than farm the gold for it and find a seller. You could also sell it when you were done - of course, droprates had to be much lower to slow down mudflation. WoW items feel disposable; this wasn't the case in EQ1. There was incentive, usually tradeskill-related, to revisit old zones instead of seeing the same thing day in and day out (orgrimmar / BGs / BWL, anyone?).

As for VG, the beta made my PC its b!tch... I swear there's a boot mark on the case :( A 9800pro just ain't what it used to be. But I lost most of my great interest when I heard about the Sony/SOE involvement. We're assured they will only handle billing and servers, but already they've plastered their name all over everything and made their own VG site despite the fact there already was a perfectly good one.

Edit: I suck at links
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,223
61
91
Originally posted by: Feneant2
Everyone who played the original Everquest would agree that the game had a 'feel' to it. The kind of feeling that made you want to go back and play some more.

A lot of people really hoped that Vanguard would offer that feeling but it doesn't to this point. I think one reason is because WoW and now Eq2 are offering much quicker level'ing treadmills. The Vanguard developers went the same way to make it easy to learn and master. People don't learn about the lore or the story, they just rush through everything as quickly as they can to go off instancing. Personnally, I believe that it would be a much better game if they had gone the original Everquest direction prior to the Planes of Power expansion.

It will be released in January if the dates are accurate, I look forward to it only because it'll be on Sony Station Access so you can pay one monthly fee to play Eq1, Eq2, Vanguard and other games and I hope it'll bring new folks into Everquest 2 (which is a better game than Vanguard currently).

Oh, and from playing WoW and meeting its players, Vanguard is a game that will cater to current Eq2 players much more than WoW players.

Not saying I dissagree with you, but I think the main reason people loved EQ is because it was their first 3D MMO. It had a magic to it, it was the first of its kind after all!

For me, I never played EQ. My first MMO was DAOC. That was and probably forever will be my favorite MMO. Why? I am not sure entirely, but I think mainly because it was my first MMO And brings back fond memories. I still have an urge to open my account and go play it again, but I think just having good memories of it is enough for me.

I would venture to say that the first MMO someone plays for a decent amount of time will be the one they compare all other MMOs too. Even if an MMO is technically better, they will likely not have those same feelings as they did with the first MMO.

Kinda like HL and HL2. The people that never played the first HL and started with HL2 will find that HL2 is really all that and if they went back to play the first HL, they won't think much of it. But those who started on HL think very highly of it (or did) and when they played the second, they were bummed. It just didn't bring back the same feelings.

Well, that is my take on it.

 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
I think trials and tribulations make for fond memories when looked back through rose colored glasses. EQ had unforgiving loot and combat, which makes a lot of people look back and remember the good times where they managed to succeed.
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
Originally posted by: skace
I think trials and tribulations make for fond memories when looked back through rose colored glasses. EQ had unforgiving loot and combat, which makes a lot of people look back and remember the good times where they managed to succeed.

The sweet ain't as sweet without the bitter.
 

Gdepp519

Senior member
Jun 18, 2003
498
0
76
Originally posted by: crownjules
Originally posted by: skace
I think trials and tribulations make for fond memories when looked back through rose colored glasses. EQ had unforgiving loot and combat, which makes a lot of people look back and remember the good times where they managed to succeed.

The sweet ain't as sweet without the bitter.


ya damn right..

:)
 

Oakenfold

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
5,740
0
76
Originally posted by: Gdepp519
Originally posted by: crownjules
Originally posted by: skace
I think trials and tribulations make for fond memories when looked back through rose colored glasses. EQ had unforgiving loot and combat, which makes a lot of people look back and remember the good times where they managed to succeed.

The sweet ain't as sweet without the bitter.


ya damn right..

:)

Remembering completing your first JBOOT quest or killing that stupid bird in Iceclad (not sure if that was the zone). Talk about hours/days of camping....:)

 

mryellow2

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2000
1,057
0
0
Originally posted by: Gdepp519
Originally posted by: crownjules
Originally posted by: skace
I think trials and tribulations make for fond memories when looked back through rose colored glasses. EQ had unforgiving loot and combat, which makes a lot of people look back and remember the good times where they managed to succeed.

The sweet ain't as sweet without the bitter.


ya damn right..

:)

That's what I definitely feel is missing from the mmo's these days. There is no real sense of danger or difficulty and thus no sense of accomplishment ( I know I know, it's "just a video game").
 

StevenYoo

Diamond Member
Jul 4, 2001
8,628
0
0
i hate the generic names games have these days:

Vanguard of the Saga of Courage of Alliances of Heroes with Magic and Quests and War and Dragonfire of the World.
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,223
61
91
Originally posted by: StevenYoo
i hate the generic names games have these days:

Vanguard of the Saga of Courage of Alliances of Heroes with Magic and Quests and War and Dragonfire of the World.

LOL, just like all the guild names too... Circle of Dragons, Dragons of the Inner Fire, The Dragon Lords, The Lord of the Dragons, The Order of the Blue Pink Fairy Dragon, The order of the Blue Flame... LOL, I such a laugh at most of the guild names out there. They try and sound all cool but it is so ridiculous in the end.

The best guild name I ever seen was called... "Legion"... Single, one word, says so much.
 

Gdepp519

Senior member
Jun 18, 2003
498
0
76
haha.. i agree.. i like simple video game names.. like Diablo, Warcraft, Everquest, no need for these "Epic Video game names"
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,289
0
0
Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
Originally posted by: StevenYoo
i hate the generic names games have these days:

Vanguard of the Saga of Courage of Alliances of Heroes with Magic and Quests and War and Dragonfire of the World.

LOL, just like all the guild names too... Circle of Dragons, Dragons of the Inner Fire, The Dragon Lords, The Lord of the Dragons, The Order of the Blue Pink Fairy Dragon, The order of the Blue Flame... LOL, I such a laugh at most of the guild names out there. They try and sound all cool but it is so ridiculous in the end.

The best guild name I ever seen was called... "Legion"... Single, one word, says so much.

best one I have ever seen is... "Sharks with lazer beams pew pew" LOL
cracks me up every time =P
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
Originally posted by: mryellow2
That's what I definitely feel is missing from the mmo's these days. There is no real sense of danger or difficulty and thus no sense of accomplishment ( I know I know, it's "just a video game").

Well, in WoW, I try to create these scenarios on my own and I find it to be fun and rewarding on a personal level. Soloing Scholomance on my priest, kiting the Frostwolf Wolf Commander and Wolf turn-in person to Dun'Baldar in AV on my priest or soloing Alexi Barov (at the Bulwark, not the one in Scholo) on my priest all were fun and gave a great sense of personal reward. Personal reward is a nice thing, as it helps set you personally above other players, which is something that we strive for in MMOs (whether it be with gear, levels or prowess in PVE/PVP).

So hey, if anyone has any fun ideas for similar situations, let me know. I'm always up for a challenge ;).

Oh and a note for anyone wanting to kite as a priest... do not press Print Screen at any time as much as you'd like to take a screen shot... well, maybe if the guy has Blackout on them. Print Screen (even when autorunning) causes your player to stop where they are and when the chugging from saving from the framebuffer is done, your player warps to where they should have been. I found this out the hard way when kiting Alexi as I magically ended up at half health after taking a screenshot near Thoradin's Wall in Hillsbrad Foothills.
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
Originally posted by: mryellow2
That's what I definitely feel is missing from the mmo's these days. There is no real sense of danger or difficulty and thus no sense of accomplishment ( I know I know, it's "just a video game").

That same reason, "it's just a video game", works the other way as well.

WoW (and games like it) are setting back the MMORPG genre. Sure they're introducing legions of new players, but all these players are going to expect the same amount of ease and recklessness they are accustomed to in WoW in the future games they play. If those games don't cater to them, they will fail. No company in their right mind will break that mold now unless they can be satisfied with a mediocre player base and thus mediocre income (even then, it's not guaranteed but that's a different matter). Games that you and me want to play, with real elements of danger and loss, have been pushed into the niche markets.
 

Gdepp519

Senior member
Jun 18, 2003
498
0
76
Originally posted by: crownjules
Originally posted by: mryellow2
That's what I definitely feel is missing from the mmo's these days. There is no real sense of danger or difficulty and thus no sense of accomplishment ( I know I know, it's "just a video game").

That same reason, "it's just a video game", works the other way as well.

WoW (and games like it) are setting back the MMORPG genre. Sure they're introducing legions of new players, but all these players are going to expect the same amount of ease and recklessness they are accustomed to in WoW in the future games they play. If those games don't cater to them, they will fail. No company in their right mind will break that mold now unless they can be satisfied with a mediocre player base and thus mediocre income (even then, it's not guaranteed but that's a different matter). Games that you and me want to play, with real elements of danger and loss, have been pushed into the niche markets.


so true... i can't even tell you how many times i use to dread running through.. Kithicor forest at nite.. so that i could.. get to highpass hold.. and you best believe it wasn't even assured you get there safely even if you run along the zone walls.. hehe.. ahhh good memories.. makes me wanna start up my eq-sleeper characters.. 58wiz/58mage :D
 

Gdepp519

Senior member
Jun 18, 2003
498
0
76
man.. is there anyone that plays dota?? we should setup some custom games.... that's all i really play anymore.. unless..
there are those of you that wanna get a anandtech guild started :D

my username is : Eye_V