Value RAm vs. "Ocing" RAM

[KoolDrew]

This will be for a rig that will be overclocked. I have heard a lot of people say just get Value RAM and use a divider, but what exactly is a divider? Also from what I have seen the Corsair Value Select reaches around 210MHz (on average). Would this affect my CPU's overclock at all? I don;t exactly understand the divider business.

I could buy RAM that does ~265 @ 2-2-2-5 for a little over $100. Would this be a good choice? Also with that RAM to reach those clocks I would ahve to use 1quite a bit of voltage.

Could you guys help me out? I will most like be getting a AMD Athlon 64 3200+ and a DFI Ultra-D NF4.

 

[CheesePoofs]

A divider lets the ram run at a certain fraction of the FSB. So a 1:2 divider (often called DDR200 in the bios) would give you a ram speed of 100mhz (200mhz effective) with a FSB of 200mhz. A divider of 5:6 (DDR333) would give you a ram speed of 166mhz (333 effective) with a 200mhz FSB. WHen you overclock the FSB, you can use dividers to keep the memory at around 200mhz, so that the ram doesn't become unstable.

 

[KoolDrew]

So going Value RAM will not really affect the maxc overclock of my CPU at all?

Also is the DFI Ultra-D worth it over say a Chaintech VNF4 Ultra? I picked the DFi because I heard it was a good overclocking board.

Also does the 10x multiplier for the 3200+ help with overclocking?

 

[CheesePoofs]

No, the value ram won't affect yoru CPU max OC becaues you can just keep using lower and lower dividers to keep the ram at a stable speed. The DFI is the better overclocking board. I have one and its very nice, but I dont' kwno anything about the chaintech board. The 10x multiplier often helps with overclocking because it means you don't need as high a FSB to max out the CPU, but with the DFI board, it really doesnt' matter, because it can handle very high FSB's.

 

[KoolDrew]

Thanks very much for the help.

 

[Serpentor]

Can someone explain this then? I have Corsair VS, at 1:1, it can hit 230mhz at stock 2.5-2-2-7. My Venice 3000+ can prime stable at 2750 (9x305). However, when I try to combine the two (using the 2:3 divider), this should give me a net RAM speed of 203mhz, however my system won't load XP at these settings. HT at 3x..

Independently, the RAM is fine up to 230mhz 1:1, the FSB is fine up to 320, and the chip is fine up to 2750-2800mhz. Why would the system have problems then when all running comfortably under their maxes at a combined 9x305x(2:3)?

 

[BTA]

I'm running the Chaintech board with a 3000+ Venice and 2 gigs of the cheapest Mushkin memory.

Currently running at 2.56ghz perfectly stable in everything I throw at it. It will get to windows for a while at 2.7, havnt really fiddled with it much past that yet though. And I'm only using an older 350watt HEC power supply with a 20pin ATX connector.

I like the chaintech board so far myself.

 

[KoolDrew]

So can anybody tell me why the DFI board is the prefered overclockers board over the Chaintech or other cheaper mobos?

The 10x multiplier often helps with overclocking because it means you don't need as high a FSB to max out the CPU, but with the DFI board, it really doesnt' matter, because it can handle very high FSB's.

So boards like the Chaintech you can't set as high of a FSB? Also if I do get the DFI shyould I just get the 300+ to save some money? I am trying to save as much money as possible without actually losing overclockability or overall system performance.

 

[sangyup81]

Originally posted by: Serpentor
Can someone explain this then? I have Corsair VS, at 1:1, it can hit 230mhz at stock 2.5-2-2-7. My Venice 3000+ can prime stable at 2750 (9x305). However, when I try to combine the two (using the 2:3 divider), this should give me a net RAM speed of 203mhz, however my system won't load XP at these settings. HT at 3x..

Independently, the RAM is fine up to 230mhz 1:1, the FSB is fine up to 320, and the chip is fine up to 2750-2800mhz. Why would the system have problems then when all running comfortably under their maxes at a combined 9x305x(2:3)?

Perhaps your Power Supply can't handle the combined load. Post what you use and what brand.

 

[sangyup81]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew
So can anybody tell me why the DFI board is the prefered overclockers board over the Chaintech or other cheaper mobos?

The 10x multiplier often helps with overclocking because it means you don't need as high a FSB to max out the CPU, but with the DFI board, it really doesnt' matter, because it can handle very high FSB's.

So boards like the Chaintech you can't set as high of a FSB? Also if I do get the DFI shyould I just get the 300+ to save some money? I am trying to save as much money as possible without actually losing overclockability or overall system performance.

People who own both tend to get higher overclocks with the DFI board for the same CPU and memory. Also, the DFI board has a much more overclock friendly BIOS that gives you more options for the purpose of overclocking.

 

[Serpentor]

Antec 300W. I thought power might be the case, however, from my tests it would appear RAM might be the culprit. I can get the combined load to work if I -really- slow down the latencies (like 3-6-6-9 2T), although, that shouldn't be necessary because as at 2:3 305, the RAM is only running at 192.85mhz.. so why would I need to slow down the RAM timings?

 

[GuitarDaddy]

I think the problem is extra load on the memory controller. I assume that when you say its prime stable at 2750mhz, that your using a 2:1 divider with memory at 150mhz. When you increase the memory speed you have to increase the CPU volts and/or drop your overclock by a few mhz. First try bumping the volts if your temps are OK, and if that doesn't work drop down to 9x300=2700mhz and bump it up from there until you find your new max, with memory at a higher speed.

 

[Serpentor]

Sorry, yes I did mean it was prime stable at 2750mhz with a 1:2 divider.

300x9 or 305x9 are with +.2V on the RAM and CPU at 1.55V. Neither are stable with the 2:3 divider.. (they don't even post for that matter, only if I slow down the latencies excessively).

Could this then be a power supply issue? (the RAM not posting at 300x9x2:3)?

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Yes its possible, overclocking CPU and ram together does take more juice. Drop down until you can get stable with the 3:2 divider, if you have to go much below 2700 it could be the PS, but if you can get stable at 2670-2690 it may just be the mem controller.

Also check the amps on the three power rails under load, if the PS is the problem you should see some fluctuations or low readings.

 

[palouse]

Originally posted by: Serpentor
Can someone explain this then? I have Corsair VS, at 1:1, it can hit 230mhz at stock 2.5-2-2-7. My Venice 3000+ can prime stable at 2750 (9x305). However, when I try to combine the two (using the 2:3 divider), this should give me a net RAM speed of 203mhz, however my system won't load XP at these settings. HT at 3x..

Independently, the RAM is fine up to 230mhz 1:1, the FSB is fine up to 320, and the chip is fine up to 2750-2800mhz. Why would the system have problems then when all running comfortably under their maxes at a combined 9x305x(2:3)?

I see your sig says the Gigabyte is an 'Ultra'. Is there any change that it is *not* an Ultra? Some of the Gigabyte socket 939 nF3 and nF4 boards have an 800 mhz HT. Just a thought.

 

[Serpentor]

Originally posted by: palouse
I see your sig says the Gigabyte is an 'Ultra'. Is there any change that it is *not* an Ultra? Some of the Gigabyte socket 939 nF3 and nF4 boards have an 800 mhz HT. Just a thought.

No, it's the Ultra alright, it's a refurb from newegg. It's been running fine, I just hope it wasn't previously returned due to a defective memory controller at OC speeds (but I guess that wouldn't make sense since isn't the mem controller on-chip these days?). CPU-Z mis-reports it as a non-ultra, but it clearly says Ultra on the mainboard and in the BIOS. I had originally thought that it might be a defective mobo causing the problems at 300x9x3:2, but it runs fine at slower speeds (275x9x3:2 or 320x6x2:1) so I'm hoping that means my problem resides in the power supply. I'll keep investigating, thx for the help!

 

[Serpentor]

Adding more to the lack of power theory, as I back out power on the vcore, and increase power on the vdimm, the system is able to post on 300x9x2:1. It starts to load XP and then hard resets. I was always under the impressions that a hard reset is usually indicative of lack of power. Can anyone support this hypothesis?

 

[Steeplerot]

Oh no, the GAK8NS Ultra 939?

My girlfriend has that board passed down from me becasue I never got it to prime dual channel @ even 200mhz with my BH-5.
I think that mem voltage is wacky...I tried some geil valueram and it got up to 210 dual channel no problem.

I got toatally fed up with stock speed cpu and 166 single channel BARLEY stable so I got a A8N SLI for my BH-5...no worries..

That dang k8ns ultra is running stable dual channel stock with some corsair valueram I picked up from the egg for her no problem....It's cursed! *rips hair out*

I really tried to get that board working for months...hard resets, mem errors, fan controller turning cpu fan totally off sometimes...

I finally got ahold of GB on the phone and they told me to make sure to set second timing (T RAS?) to 3 (EX: 2-3-2-5) on mobo and use 2T. they said it was flakey at high performance settings becasue the ram voltage can "droop"...:|

It helped stability a bit but it would hard reset after a few minutes still. 166 max stable...

A VDIMM mod supposedly works wonders on this board.

Never bothered though since the corasir in it now doesen't use enough juice to make the voltage droop and I got my sli nforce4, and my bh-5 is happily running at 2-2-2-5 even when OCed pretty good.

stuff about vdimm mod
A decent forum for gigabyte boards...

 

[Serpentor]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Oh no, the GAK8NS Ultra 939?

Oh boy... quite the horror story.. What adds to my worries is that mine is a refurb, perhaps the previous owner went through your hell only to return it to newegg and now I'm stuck with the problems.

I had hoped my problems might be resolved with a new power supply, but you're saying you encountered instability and hard resets with an adequate power supply behind you?

I have a few days to RMA the board back, unfortunately I may have to make that choice before I determine whether it was a power supply issue or not. But from hearing your story, I'd rather not bank on the small chance a power supply will resolve all of my problems.

I mainly went NF3 Ultra/AGP to use with my current Gi4200 with an upgrade to the 6800nu (Leadtek, softmod to GT/Ultra). If I have to refurb the board, and Battlefield 2 is forcing out the Geforce4's, then I may take a look at PCIe mobo's.

 

[blckgrffn]

You need to up your powersupply before you condemn the board altogether, you need to find something that has at least 18 amps on the 12v rail (this is what I have garnered from the forums thus far). Make sure that you get a ps that has the 24 pin power adapter at this point however, might as well prepare for the future at this point as well. Also, that 6800 will probably kill that PS if you haven't added that yet. More power, scotty!

Good luck!
Nat

 

[Serpentor]

Originally posted by: blckgrffn
You need to up your powersupply before you condemn the board altogether, you need to find something that has at least 18 amps on the 12v rail (this is what I have garnered from the forums thus far). Make sure that you get a ps that has the 24 pin power adapter at this point however, might as well prepare for the future at this point as well. Also, that 6800 will probably kill that PS if you haven't added that yet. More power, scotty!

Good luck!
Nat

Thx, for the advice, do you think the 420w PS in the X-Dreamer II would suffice? My brother has that case which I could try this weekend, I was also planning on picking one up myself if I had any powersupply problems (which I do). Before I go jumping into another headache, does anyone recommend against that case/PS?

 

[KoolDrew]

Thanks for hijacking my thread Serpentor...

 

[blckgrffn]

Sorry... Serpentor, why don't you start a new thread? Just take a quick look here first, for the money it is what I suggest:

For a budget:
Thermaltake 430W

More Power:
OCZ 430

Or:
Antec True Power 480W

The 420 out of your brothers case may increase the problem or possibly fix it, but with the big oc you have going on I would get a *good* power supply. I think that you either want to get a decent ps like the first I linked, or something heavy duty, like second two, I haven't found much value in messing around with what is in the middle, but that is only my experience. Edit: *I just checked the link. They don't have a close up of the PS, so that is probably a bad sign. What comes with those cheaper case is typically junk in my experience. At least order that thermaltake ps, you will be glad you did.*

Nat

 

[Serpentor]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew
Thanks for hijacking my thread Serpentor...

Sry 'bout that, but no need to have a chip on the shoulder. CheesePoofs answered your question on the 4th post, and you said thx. I felt our topics were close enough to recycle the thread rather than start anew.

 

[blckgrffn]

Just updated my post, hope you caught that...