Value of Skylake Celeron / Pentium, over Haswell or Ivy Bridge equivalent?

[VirtualLarry]

Just curious what people's thoughts were on this.

If you were going to build some systems for end-users, and you had a choice, given the price and performance differentials, would you go for Skylake (assume that the G3900 is $42 at Newegg, even though it's not out yet), or would you scarf up potentially-cheaper Haswell G1820 or Ivy Bridge G1610 CPUs, and pair them with the cheapest mobos you can find? (Preferably with HDMI outputs.)

Edit: Let's throw AMD builds into the mix too. Consider A8-7600 and A8-7650K APU builds.

Use case, is browsing, Facebook, and online web-browser games, and let's say, 1080P YouTube / online video sites. Monitor is 1080P, or even lower res.

Edit: I just took a look at Ebay and Newegg, and neither site has reliable (major) sellers with stock of any NIB G1610 CPUs anymore. Guess they dried up.

 

[NTMBK]

Skylake has a more modern video decode block, which is important on these low-end systems- less CPU horsepower to fall back on for software decoding (and no fancy AVX/AVX2/FMA3 instructions). Will be useful in years to come as websites move to the more advanced codecs. I'd say go with the Skylake. (Bristol Ridge may be an option when that comes out, as that also has a good decode block.)

Not sure what the price difference is, though- how much more would a Skylake Pentium system cost over a Haswell one?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Well, I went for a couple of G1820 CPUs on ebay, NIB from a major vendor, for under $40, and a pair of H81 mobos with HDMI output, for $50 ea. There were a couple that were a few bucks cheaper, but they only had DVI / VGA, for some reason.

I don't think that the video-decode block on Skylake is going to matter much, since it's still not full HEVC (no Main10, used by Netflix, supposedly). And Haswell has full support for H.264, both playback and encode, I believe.

Anyways, I don't think that the Haswell Celeron CPUs I picked up support 4K resolutions anyways, so no big deal there. None of my current clientele have 4K monitors that I know of.

So, $90 for CPU + mobo for Haswell G1820 Celeron. A SKL G4400 is $65, and the cheapest decent SKL H110 mobo is like $62 + $2 shipping. So like $130 for the entry-level SKL solution.

Now I'm looking for (brand new) DDR3 at under $30 for 8GB, either single DIMM or two.

Edit: Found a lone GSkill 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 kit from a surplus dealer for $20, FS. Good deal!

 

[TheELF]

Anyways, I don't think that the Haswell Celeron CPUs I picked up support 4K resolutions anyways, so no big deal there. None of my current clientele have 4K monitors that I know of.

For normal movie FPS (24-25FPS) they do but just barely,click anything and you'll have drops,also you will have to use a light player that does support playback through QSV.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU94J768G5U

 

[VirtualLarry]

For normal movie FPS (24-25FPS) they do but just barely,click anything and you'll have drops,also you will have to use a light player that does support playback through QSV.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU94J768G5U

I was referring to this:
Max Resolution (HDMI 1.4)‡ 1920x1080@60Hz
http://ark.intel.com/products/78955/Intel-Celeron-Processor-G1820-2M-Cache-2_70-GHz

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Skylake has a more modern video decode block, which is important on these low-end systems- less CPU horsepower to fall back on for software decoding (and no fancy AVX/AVX2/FMA3 instructions). Will be useful in years to come as websites move to the more advanced codecs. I'd say go with the Skylake. (Bristol Ridge may be an option when that comes out, as that also has a good decode block.)

Not sure what the price difference is, though- how much more would a Skylake Pentium system cost over a Haswell one?

I'm going to have to agree with NTMBK here.

Don't forget current desktop AMD APUs don't have decode support for either h.265 nor VP9, and so will fall back to software decoding.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'm going to have to agree with NTMBK here.

Don't forget current desktop AMD APUs don't have decode support for either h.265 nor VP9, and so will fall back to software decoding.

We need a cheap (under $100, preferably under $60) GPU that will handle desktop GUI / browser acceleration, and video codec offloading for all of these new codecs.

 

[NTMBK]

We need a cheap (under $100, preferably under $60) GPU that will handle desktop GUI / browser acceleration, and video codec offloading for all of these new codecs.

Nah, we just need a competent iGPU. Hopefully Kabylake will provide full acceleration for Main10 (or AMD will get their act together).

 

[skipsneeky2]

I feel the G1820+H81+$60 GT 740 and a 120gb ssd i put into my wifes build is the perfect little basic usage tower.Absolutely no issues or complaints,unlike when she had her i3 notebook with its constant throttling due to overheating.

Even plays some older games with ease,blows the C2D stuff out of the water with those games.Excellent little budget CSGO gaming build too,its holding 60+ fps there at 1080p.:thumbsup:

 

[gorion]

Edit: Let's throw AMD builds into the mix too. Consider A8-7600 and A8-7650K APU builds.

Where I live the a8-7600 builds are more or less on par with similar pentium builds. I don't think they are a good value right now.

I am wondering if an x4 845 + small GPU (GT 740?) cold be good, but I still cannot find any on sale.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I feel the G1820+H81+$60 GT 740 and a 120gb ssd i put into my wifes build is the perfect little basic usage tower.Absolutely no issues or complaints,unlike when she had her i3 notebook with its constant throttling due to overheating.

Even plays some older games with ease,blows the C2D stuff out of the water with those games.Excellent little budget CSGO gaming build too,its holding 60+ fps there at 1080p.:thumbsup:

Yeah, if GPUs weren't so damn expensive, I'd pick up a few to go with these rigs. Looking at GT710, GT730, and R7 240. None of those are that great. The $60 MSI GT740 1GB GDDR5 was a steal, I managed to snag two of them when they were available.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

We need a cheap (under $100, preferably under $60) GPU that will handle desktop GUI / browser acceleration, and video codec offloading for all of these new codecs.

Agreed. Something 370/750(TI)-esque with HDMI 2.0, full support for h.265 main 10 and VP9 would be great. Preferably with a low-profile power-sipping version too.

Nah, we just need a competent iGPU. Hopefully Kabylake will provide full acceleration for Main10 (or AMD will get their act together).

We need both. There are plenty of competent CPUs out there which could benefit from a simple upgrade.

 

[skipsneeky2]

Yeah, if GPUs weren't so damn expensive, I'd pick up a few to go with these rigs. Looking at GT710, GT730, and R7 240. None of those are that great. The $60 MSI GT740 1GB GDDR5 was a steal, I managed to snag two of them when they were available.

I got one of those for $60 as well,i had opened up Apu thread as i nearly considered one.Someone pointed out the GT 740 sell to me and considering the G1820+GT 740 is faster in benchmarks people linked,i went with those options over the 7600 i could have afforded at first.

The 7600 i don't think really is a option anymore with the G4500 Pentiums and its HD530 but maybe with a penny pinching budget it could still be a option?

 

[cytg111]

Just curious what people's thoughts were on this.

If you were going to build some systems for end-users, and you had a choice, given the price and performance differentials, would you go for Skylake (assume that the G3900 is $42 at Newegg, even though it's not out yet), or would you scarf up potentially-cheaper Haswell G1820 or Ivy Bridge G1610 CPUs, and pair them with the cheapest mobos you can find? (Preferably with HDMI outputs.)

Edit: Let's throw AMD builds into the mix too. Consider A8-7600 and A8-7650K APU builds.

Use case, is browsing, Facebook, and online web-browser games, and let's say, 1080P YouTube / online video sites. Monitor is 1080P, or even lower res.

Edit: I just took a look at Ebay and Newegg, and neither site has reliable (major) sellers with stock of any NIB G1610 CPUs anymore. Guess they dried up.

My stance on the lesser races in this context is something like

>>i7, cause the chip will last you a decade and 10 years of performance delta i5 vs i7 for 100$ is a nobrainer.<<

for the foreseeable future.
At this particular point in time it makes no sense to cheap out on the mips.

 

[VirtualLarry]

My stance on the lesser races in this context is something like

>>i7, cause the chip will last you a decade and 10 years of performance delta i5 vs i7 for 100$ is a nobrainer.<<

for the foreseeable future.
At this particular point in time it makes no sense to cheap out on the mips.

Uhh yeah... everyone should have an i7 ... to browse Facebook...

Edit: Anyways, the point of this thread, was to specifically compare platform-related features between the lowest-end CPUs and chipsets, across the more recent generations of Intel, and also AMD CPUs / APUs.

 

[MrTeal]

For a new build for web, media, Facebook and Office work, I think going with Skylake is the smart move. You can pick up an H110M motherboard and 8GB of DDR4 for $85 these days. 8GB DDR3 and an LGA1150 board with HDMI is $10 cheaper at this point, but that's a pretty small cost adder given the improved platform and better iGPU.

 

[cbn]

Last time I used my socket AM1 chips (and FM2 A6-5400K) with Linux Mint the decoder didn't work....even with the proprietary driver. So I imagine socket FM2+ APU is the same story.

So if going Linux I would looking into Intel (although I haven't checked to see if my G3258's decode works yet) or possibly Nvidia GPU with either Intel or AMD CPU.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Skylake has a more modern video decode block

Barely. Skylake needs hybrid (read: garbage) decoding for HEVC, and most anything Sandy or newer can play H264 just fine (unless you are picky enough to care about the 24p bug). There is no way you can argue for Skylake on the merit of its decoder, the Skylake decoder is the biggest letdown by Intel in years.

Skylake SHOULD support HDMI 2.0 (with HDCP 2.2) and it SHOULD have a FULL hardware decoder like the GTX 950 does. Huge huge letdown by Intel, but I am not surprised after they couldn't squash the 24p bug for three generations.

 

[SPBHM]

what about VP9 (which is what youtube uses on Chrome)? I think GM206 is the only with full support, but I wonder if Skylake have any advantage there, compared to Haswell/AMD

 

[poofyhairguy]

what about VP9 (which is what youtube uses on Chrome)?

It has the same hybrid garbage decoder that Broadwell had.

 

[LTC8K6]

It has the same hybrid garbage decoder that Broadwell had.

Whatever that hybrid deal is, Skylake seems to be a lot faster at it than Haswell.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1198?vs=1544

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

For ANY new build 2c/4t is my absolute low limit. Until Pentiums with HT become mainstream, the A8-7600 (and whatever its equivalents in the following generations are...) is my go-to chip. The i3 is faster but not $30-50 faster, and the i5 is the next step up. From there, Linux machines get an FX-8320E/70E, Windows machines get an i5.

 

[waltchan]

Skylake Celeron is considered to be a dramatic redesign from Haswell, since memory RAM frequency speed shot up to 2133 MHz with DDR4 in G3900/G3920 vs. only 1333 MHz with DDR3 in G1840/G1850. That's not even 1600 MHz found in Pentium G3420 and higher.

Personally for me, I would wait for Skylake Celeron G3900 (including me), since it's only $5 more than Haswell, assuming.

 

[LTC8K6]

For a new build today, I can't see going with an A8-7600 or an FX, simply because of the lack of an upgrade path.

If you build an A8-7600 system, you can drop in an A10-7870K later at most, which is not a big jump in performance.

Same if you build an FX-8320 system today.

If the owner needs a performance jump next year, I don't see where it's coming from.

 

[waltchan]

I think A8-7670K, forgotten and cheaper solution to A10-7870K, is a better idea here.