V-22 Osprey: A Flying Shame

[Skunkwourk]

Continuace from this thread

Just read this article, wish I knew more about military aircraft or physics. Anyone have theories or insight? Why can't they just mount a gun on the front?

EDIT: Pics, and sample crash, article is long so I didn't post it.

 

[SSSnail]

I say load them up in Hueys and blare Ride of the Valkeries over a battlefield when they land, it's more dramatic that way.

The V-22 was a good idea that went bad, it's what the Corps needed, but it's not performing as it should. Due to the Corps doctrine, they needed the VTOL capability so that they can wage war anywhere, and in a hurry. It would have been better if they were outfitted with turbo props than just props.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: SSSnail
I say load them up in Hueys and blare Ride of the Valkeries over a battlefield when they land, it's more dramatic that way.

The V-22 was a good idea that went bad, it's what the Corps needed, but it's not performing as it should. Due to the Corps doctrine, they needed the VTOL capability so that they can wage war anywhere, and in a hurry. It would have been better if they were outfitted with turbo props than just props.

They are turbo props. What's wrong with the Osprey? It does VTOL, it can lift and transport heavy loads like a helicopter, and it can fly long distances efficiently in plane mode.

 

[MrWizzard]

Every aircraft has it's problems. Some more than others, VTOL and speed are a hard combination to get right. The media does like to capitalize on it though and some how make it political.

Like in NAM about that one air base that the media said turned into a graveyard of planes it was under siege for a while. They had all these picture so wrecked planes. Truth turned out there was one or tow wrecked plane and they took a bunch of different angels of it. YAY media.

 

[SSSnail]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: SSSnail
I say load them up in Hueys and blare Ride of the Valkeries over a battlefield when they land, it's more dramatic that way.

The V-22 was a good idea that went bad, it's what the Corps needed, but it's not performing as it should. Due to the Corps doctrine, they needed the VTOL capability so that they can wage war anywhere, and in a hurry. It would have been better if they were outfitted with turbo props than just props.

They are turbo props. What's wrong with the Osprey? It does VTOL, it can lift and transport heavy loads like a helicopter, and it can fly long distances efficiently in plane mode.

Excuse me, what I meant to say was turbofans.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: SSSnail
I say load them up in Hueys and blare Ride of the Valkeries over a battlefield when they land, it's more dramatic that way.

The V-22 was a good idea that went bad, it's what the Corps needed, but it's not performing as it should. Due to the Corps doctrine, they needed the VTOL capability so that they can wage war anywhere, and in a hurry. It would have been better if they were outfitted with turbo props than just props.

They are turbo props. What's wrong with the Osprey? It does VTOL, it can lift and transport heavy loads like a helicopter, and it can fly long distances efficiently in plane mode.

Excuse me, what I meant to say was turbofans.

You'd blast the ground and everyone on it with hot exhaust gas. A turboprop is more efficient too, so you'd be using more energy to hover with a turbofan

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: SSSnail
I say load them up in Hueys and blare Ride of the Valkeries over a battlefield when they land, it's more dramatic that way.

The V-22 was a good idea that went bad, it's what the Corps needed, but it's not performing as it should. Due to the Corps doctrine, they needed the VTOL capability so that they can wage war anywhere, and in a hurry. It would have been better if they were outfitted with turbo props than just props.

They are turbo props. What's wrong with the Osprey? It does VTOL, it can lift and transport heavy loads like a helicopter, and it can fly long distances efficiently in plane mode.

I think a working Osprey would be bad just for the fact that it could put Marines too far away from thier support.. namely the ships they come off of.

Plus its a damn complex piece of machinery... you dont want marines stranded 200 miles out of range of their choppers.

 

[SSSnail]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: SSSnail
I say load them up in Hueys and blare Ride of the Valkeries over a battlefield when they land, it's more dramatic that way.

The V-22 was a good idea that went bad, it's what the Corps needed, but it's not performing as it should. Due to the Corps doctrine, they needed the VTOL capability so that they can wage war anywhere, and in a hurry. It would have been better if they were outfitted with turbo props than just props.

They are turbo props. What's wrong with the Osprey? It does VTOL, it can lift and transport heavy loads like a helicopter, and it can fly long distances efficiently in plane mode.

Excuse me, what I meant to say was turbofans.

You'd blast the ground and everyone on it with hot exhaust gas. A turboprop is more efficient too, so you'd be using more energy to hover with a turbofan

They seem to not have the hot jet exhaust burning problem with the JSF. It's given that you'd take proper precautions when near exhausts. Given that you'll be using more energy hovering with turbofans, but it's more efficient once airborne and on a straight flight. Plus I think the transitioning between hovering and straight flight would be much smoother, which is the problematic area for the V-22 right now.

 

[apac]

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: SSSnail
I say load them up in Hueys and blare Ride of the Valkeries over a battlefield when they land, it's more dramatic that way.

The V-22 was a good idea that went bad, it's what the Corps needed, but it's not performing as it should. Due to the Corps doctrine, they needed the VTOL capability so that they can wage war anywhere, and in a hurry. It would have been better if they were outfitted with turbo props than just props.

They are turbo props. What's wrong with the Osprey? It does VTOL, it can lift and transport heavy loads like a helicopter, and it can fly long distances efficiently in plane mode.

Excuse me, what I meant to say was turbofans.

You'd blast the ground and everyone on it with hot exhaust gas. A turboprop is more efficient too, so you'd be using more energy to hover with a turbofan

They seem to not have the hot jet exhaust burning problem with the JSF. It's given that you'd take proper precautions when near exhausts. Given that you'll be using more energy hovering with turbofans, but it's more efficient once airborne and on a straight flight. Plus I think the transitioning between hovering and straight flight would be much smoother, which is the problematic area for the V-22 right now.

The JSF is not a troop transport vehicle. Suggesting that troops being picked up by an osprey need to be 50+ feet away from it (or whatever distance is required to safely avoid getting barbequed) while it's landing is preposterous.

 

[SSSnail]

Originally posted by: apac

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: SSSnail
I say load them up in Hueys and blare Ride of the Valkeries over a battlefield when they land, it's more dramatic that way.

The V-22 was a good idea that went bad, it's what the Corps needed, but it's not performing as it should. Due to the Corps doctrine, they needed the VTOL capability so that they can wage war anywhere, and in a hurry. It would have been better if they were outfitted with turbo props than just props.

They are turbo props. What's wrong with the Osprey? It does VTOL, it can lift and transport heavy loads like a helicopter, and it can fly long distances efficiently in plane mode.

Excuse me, what I meant to say was turbofans.

You'd blast the ground and everyone on it with hot exhaust gas. A turboprop is more efficient too, so you'd be using more energy to hover with a turbofan

They seem to not have the hot jet exhaust burning problem with the JSF. It's given that you'd take proper precautions when near exhausts. Given that you'll be using more energy hovering with turbofans, but it's more efficient once airborne and on a straight flight. Plus I think the transitioning between hovering and straight flight would be much smoother, which is the problematic area for the V-22 right now.

The JSF is not a troop transport vehicle. Suggesting that troops being picked up by an osprey need to be 50+ feet away from it while it's landing is preposterous.

Have you ever been near a jet? A helicopter?

If turbofans were to be used, the exhaust won't be as hot as jets, besides 50' is a short sprint. I'm sure all the troops are within inches of the V-22 when it's landing right now anyways, right?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Having worked on the Osprey program, it was a good idea that was poorly implimented and kept alive politically.

It was felt that given enough time and $$, problems could be resolved.

Many problems have been because the program managers under-estimated/hid the technical issues to keep on the artifical deployment schedule.

Operational requirements were changed to justify delays or deflect questions.

 

[techs]

The Osprey is a failure not because they haven't gotten it "right" yet, but because it cost so much and has taken so long to develop.
We could have bought a whole slew of purpose built helicopters and had a fortune left over instead of the Osprey, which still can't be used in combat.
The Osprey is a classic version of what John Boyd (the greatest American military thinker since Mahan) pointed out during the Reagan years. You can actually spend huge sums of money on defense equipment and get less readiness and less capablity.

 

[herm0016]

there is no way to get enough surface area out of a turbofan for sustained hovering or vertical flight. the osprey has been used for a lot of missions successfully. there is no other aircraft that can do what it can do. transport, hover and vertical flight, and regular airplane flight. the jsf, harier and most other vtol craft can not hover for any amount of time and can not transport people.

 

[LordMorpheus]

I don't know, if I was flying an unarmed troop transport with VTOL, I'd really like to be able to autorotate when some yahoo unloads into one of the engines.