Utah: Increasing Speed Limits Doesn't Kill

FlashG

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 1999
2,709
2
0
I don't think this is a repost but it is interesting anyway.

http://autos.aol.com/article/utah-speed-limit-tests?ncid=AOLCOMMautogenlfpge0006

Test Confirms 80 MPH Okay
Humans are marvelous at self-organization -- it's how we get nomadic tribes and cities like Tokyo, it explains how New Yorkers avoid each other and actually get places on the sidewalks in midtown, and it leads to things like book-of-the-month clubs. It also explains how we avoid accidents at intersections when the red light stops working. Given our choice, we will find ways on our own to live together, mostly safely.

The blackest and whitest versions of the speed limit debate put "Speed Kills!" on one side and "No it doesn't!" on the other. Because both sides have metric tons of paperwork to prove their positions, the chance that the debate will be settled in our lifetimes is intergalactically remote. A recent speed limit trial in Utah, though, appears to be another scrap of evidence for those on the side of "No it doesn't."

"The Utah Department of Transportation (UDOT)," began an article in TheNewspaper.com, "announced last week that the experimental increase in the state's maximum speed limit to 80 MPH has been a success in terms of safety. UDOT Deputy Director Carlos Braceras testified before the state Interim Committee on Transportation that that there has been no increase in accidents as a result of the higher number printed on the speed limit signs on certain stretches of Interstate 15."

Barring any other considerations, a speed limit is determined by studying the behavior of 85% of traffic over a given stretch of road. That 85th percentile is given credit for self-organizing into a group that moves at the safest and most efficient speed. There doesn't appear to be any clear-cut study that proves this, but it has been gospel for so long that it is now the precedent for deciding limits, and in some instances, court cases.

The UDOT measured the speed of that 85th percentile before and after raising the limit. When the maximum allowable speed was 75 mph, it reported most drivers doing between 81 and 85 mph. Given another five miles an hour to legally play with, a year of observation found that most drivers doing between 83 and 85 mph. The vehicular carnage that some suspected didn't materialize, nor did drivers automatically begin driving 90 or 95 mph. As was the case before the limit was raised, people liked going about 85 on the stretches of road in question. They probably also enjoyed not getting tickets for it.

Without taking sides, Utah's findings do match recent findings and decisions in other states. When the North Texas Tollway Authority (NTTA) studied speed limits on six sections of roads it maintains, it changed the speed limits on five of them: one saw a decrease of 5 mph, the other four were increased from 5 to 10 mph.

When Montana had no daytime speed limit, fatalities not only went down but Montana recorded the state's fewest road fatalities during that period. Internationally, the number of fatalities per billion vehicle kilometers has been higher in the U.S. for about the past seven years than anywhere in Western Europe except for Ireland. Even Germany and its unrestricted autobahn suffer fewer injury incidents than the U.S.

Outside of the safety issue, some folks have chosen to see Utah's DOT results as proof that higher limits mean less speeding. That could be cheating a bit by using a relative definition of speeding -- people didn't actually slow down, the law just happened to catch up to them. Almost.

It could be more informative to see the issues of speeding and safety as follow-on effects of the widely held but as-yet-unproved instinct at work: 85% of people found a speed range at which they can drive mostly safely. And as that range didn't really change after the posted limit was changed, we can assume that the instinct for a safe speed has nothing to do with what the posted and enforced speed limit happens to be.

People want to get where they're going quickly and alive. If the powers that be would set limits more in accordance with that fact, perhaps the national blood pressure – and that of drivers – would flow more efficiently and just as safely. At least, it wouldn't hurt to try it out here and there.

It gets back to that self-organizing thing we've been perfecting for thousands of years. As a herd, we will find ways on our own to live together, mostly safely. Even in the fast lane.
 

thepd7

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2005
9,423
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I love that the NTTA changed the limit on the George Bush Turnpike to 70, I got a ticket going 72 on it a few years ago.
 

thepd7

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2005
9,423
0
0
oh and for reference I do go faster though. If the speed limit is 60 I got 68ish, up that to 70 and I'm going 76. 80 and I'm going 85.
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
I wouldn't mind faster speed limits here on the open freeway :biggrin:

I can see slowing it down in heavy traffic/in city interstates with lots of entrances/exits, but when you have a open highway 65 just seems so impractical (aside from getting slightly better mpg than 75). I try not to push it too much though so I usually keep it around 68-69 and set my cruise.
 

GTSRguy

Senior member
Sep 21, 2009
459
0
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sup sparky!

Yea, just look at the autobahn where people do 200mph legally, the accident rate is really low
 

Scouzer

Lifer
Jun 3, 2001
10,358
5
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It sure wastes gas though.

No shit, this is roughly the mileage I get:

62mph (small highway speed limit) = 40mpg
68mph (major highway limit) = 35mpg
75mph (speeding) = 30mpg

as much as i support high speed limits, i dont know if i'd use them personally... too expensive
 

Viperoni

Lifer
Jan 4, 2000
11,084
1
71
No shit, this is roughly the mileage I get:

62mph (small highway speed limit) = 40mpg
68mph (major highway limit) = 35mpg
75mph (speeding) = 30mpg

as much as i support high speed limits, i dont know if i'd use them personally... too expensive

You end up paying 33% more to get somewhere 21% quicker... for me it's woth it. On a 5 hour trip, you get 65 miles further.... that's like driving for an extra hour.
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
sup sparky!

Yea, just look at the autobahn where people do 200mph legally, the accident rate is really low

From what I've seen the US has the market cornered on idiots with drivers licenses.

I think they could increase the speed limit on open freeways but if they do they should increase efforts to ticket reckless drivers.
 

kornphlake

Golden Member
Dec 30, 2003
1,567
9
81
From what I've seen the US has the market cornered on idiots with drivers licenses.

Not only that, Utah has many drivers that would feel it a compliment to be considered an idiot. I imagine that the areas where the speed limit changed are the areas where everybody was driving 80mph anyway so I'm not suprised there was no change in accidents, if they changed the speed limit through salt lake I can guarantee there would be an increase in accidents.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
From what I've seen the US has the market cornered on idiots with drivers licenses.

I think they could increase the speed limit on open freeways but if they do they should increase efforts to ticket reckless drivers.

Yep. Get the idiots on their cellphones and such.
 

jhu

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
11,918
9
81
So? Stick to the right and let us pass :)

I already do that. The smart ones pass. There's always the occasional idiot who tailgates me, passes me, then gets back into my lane only to find that he's now stuck behind the same person I was following. There's no helping these drivers no matter what.
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
No shit, this is roughly the mileage I get:

62mph (small highway speed limit) = 40mpg
68mph (major highway limit) = 35mpg
75mph (speeding) = 30mpg

as much as i support high speed limits, i dont know if i'd use them personally... too expensive

Seriously that big a difference? Wow, most I see between 65 and 75 is a couple mpg. And even then it isn't that cut and dry either.
 

jhu

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
11,918
9
81
Seriously that big a difference? Wow, most I see between 65 and 75 is a couple mpg. And even then it isn't that cut and dry either.

The MFD is not always entirely accurate. Probably the easiest way is to limit the speed on the highway and measure mileage at each fillup. eg assuming the same general commute for two tanks, travel on the highway at 65 mph for one tank and 75 mph for the other tank.
 

AMCRambler

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2001
7,706
28
91
No shit, this is roughly the mileage I get:

62mph (small highway speed limit) = 40mpg
68mph (major highway limit) = 35mpg
75mph (speeding) = 30mpg

as much as i support high speed limits, i dont know if i'd use them personally... too expensive

Gotta get that 6-speed man. My car gets better mileage doing 70-75 than it does at 65.
 

DietDrThunder

Platinum Member
Apr 6, 2001
2,262
326
126
No shit, this is roughly the mileage I get:

62mph (small highway speed limit) = 40mpg
68mph (major highway limit) = 35mpg
75mph (speeding) = 30mpg

as much as i support high speed limits, i dont know if i'd use them personally... too expensive

This summer we went on our family vacation to Yellowstone National Park. Granted, our 2003 Chevy Trailblazer Ext (seats 7 adults) with the 5.3 Liter V8 is geared for highway, but we averaged 20 mpg for the complete trip. This includes the long drive on I-25 where the posted limit is 75 mph (set the cruize control on 80 mph). What cracked me up the most were all the people driving Toyota Prius' that were blowing by us like we were sitting still. Doesn't driving a Prius at 85 to 90 mph defeat the purpose of driving an economy car? I know a Prius or any other economy car will do much better than our Trailblazer on the highway, but what kind of mileage will a Prius get at 85 to 90 mph?.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Well, a Prius driven flat out gets mileage in the teens. Crusing at 85, probably in the 30's I'd guess.
 

JeepinEd

Senior member
Dec 12, 2005
869
63
91
Well, a Prius driven flat out gets mileage in the teens. Crusing at 85, probably in the 30's I'd guess.

It depends on the slope of the road.
There is a 5 mile section of freeway that I travel daily, that is totally flat. I cruise at75MPH and average 70 MPG by just feathering the gas. I'm guessing if it was much longer, the MPG would probably go down as the battery wears, though.

In my Jeep, that same section of freeway will get an average of 14MPG at 75.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,749
584
126
While I agree speed limits are generally retarded, I think its a mistake to use accident rates in European countries as a supporting arguement. European countries actually require some modicum of driving ability before a license is doled out. Certainly it is no small affair in Germany at least. Here in the Land 'o the Free and the Home of the Brave a driver's license is a divine right. If you can put on a pair of pants, congrats! You can drive now. And don't like your 4th DUI or the fact that you've gone legally blind slow you down either.