USS Johnston Found, 21,000 feet down.

kage69

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Jul 17, 2003
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Taffy 3 saved a lot of lives and supplies that day, some story. Took guts for men that outgunned to go on the offensive.
 
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Viper1j

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Taffy 3 saved a lot of lives and supplies that day, some story. Took guts for men that outgunned to go on the offensive.

The name Custer springs to mind. Heroism is a thing for US Armed forces.
 

local

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Jun 28, 2011
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The Battle off Samar is one of those things it seems insane hasn't been made into a series or a film.

I am afraid that it would not be done justice (Needs to be more old Midway style and less new Midway style) but I agree. I've said the same thing about the Battle of Castle Itter for a while and apparently that is kinda moving forward as a movie so there is hope.
 
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Zorba

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Oct 22, 1999
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The Battle off Samar is one of those things it seems insane hasn't been made into a series or a film.
I'm guessing that is because the Americans lost the battle. Outside of Pearl Harbor movies I can't think of any that show Americans losing.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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I'm guessing that is because the Americans lost the battle. Outside of Pearl Harbor movies I can't think of any that show Americans losing.

I'm not sure I'd describe it as a loss since Kurita turned back. A very very costly but ultimately successful defense. You'd have to put Halsey though the ringer though to really do it justice.
 
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kage69

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The name Custer springs to mind. Heroism is a thing for US Armed forces.

Why? Custer was a vain, racist prime dona known for aggression rather than tactics or duty. He was also court-martialed, twice. He did show talent and leadership putting down J.E.B Stuart's assault in the Civil War, I will grant you that. But we're talking about Little Big Horn.

If you want real heroes to compare the men of Taffy 3 to, I suggest reading about people like John Basilone, Matt Urban, Benjamin Salomon, others. Alwyn Cash.*


Edit*: Who IS getting the Medal of Honor now, rightfully so.
 
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skyking

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Nov 21, 2001
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With today's CGI I think they could do it justice.
On the technical aspects, the US fire control system was what made it possible to rock that much larger force. If the fire director was trained on the target, you hit it, regardless of pitching seas and radical maneuvers on your part. They were able to rain those 5" shells on the bridges and upper works with deadly accuracy.
After severe damage and with one engine down, they managed to turn a column of destroyers with that fire.
"At 08:40, a much more pressing target appeared astern. A formation of seven Japanese destroyers in two columns was closing in to attack the carriers.[16][17] Reversing course to intercept, Evans attempted to pass in front of the formation, crossing the "T", a classical naval maneuver which would have put the force being "crossed" at a great disadvantage. Evans ordered Johnston's guns to fire on this new threat. The Japanese destroyers returned fire, striking Johnston several times. Perhaps seeing his disadvantage, the commander of the lead destroyer turned away to the west. From as close as 7,000 yards (3.5 nmi; 6.4 km), Hagen fired and scored a dozen hits on the destroyer leader before it veered off. He shifted fire to the next destroyer in line, scoring five hits before it too turned away. Amazingly, the entire squadron turned west to avoid Johnston's fire. At 09:20, these destroyers finally managed to fire their torpedoes, 5.2 nautical miles (6.0 mi; 9.6 km).[16] Several torpedoes were detonated by strafing aircraft or defensive fire from the carriers, and the rest failed to strike a target."

 
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Viper1j

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Why? Custer was a vain, racist prime dona known for aggression rather than tactics or duty. He was also court-martialed.

If you want real heroes to compare the men of Taffy 3 to, I suggest reading about people like John Basilone, Matt Urban, Benjamin Salomon, others.

I was thinking the whole rushing in against unwinnable odds thing.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
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I was thinking the whole rushing in against unwinnable odds thing.

That's the thing, he didn't.

He rushed in thinking he had the Sioux and Cheyenne nearly on the run. What he got was a much larger force equipped with repeating rifles who had no intention of letting Custer and his men kill their women, children and elders. Being surrounded and wiped out to a man isn't a mark of courage or heroism, it's the mark of tactical idiocy and fool's courage.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
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I'm guessing that is because the Americans lost the battle. Outside of Pearl Harbor movies I can't think of any that show Americans losing.

Goodmorning Vietnam
The Alamo
Black Hawk Down (technically mission was successful though)
A Bridge Too Far (?)
Field of Lost Shoes
 
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Zorba

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Goodmorning Vietnam
The Alamo
Black Hawk Down (technically mission was successful though)
A Bridge Too Far (?)
Field of Lost Shoes
I wouldn't include Good Morning Vietnam in there.

I did forget about Blackhawk Down, the others are pretty old, though.

Glory does show them losing, but then of course the union went on to win.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
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The Brits got, justifiably, portrayed muuuch worse than us.

Also where else do you get to enjoy Gene Hackman with a horrifyingly bad Polish accent?

So true. That was 'Dick Van Dycke trying to do cockney' bad.

I can't hold much against Gene after Unforgiven though. Plus he already gave us the best car chase scene of all time. We're cool Hackman, carry on.
 
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woolfe9998

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Apr 8, 2013
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I'm guessing that is because the Americans lost the battle. Outside of Pearl Harbor movies I can't think of any that show Americans losing.

True, though they did make a movie out of Wake Island, but only because a small number of marines held out for weeks inflicting heavy casualties on the Japanese before we ultimately lost.

Edit: More significant is the 1970's movie "A Bridge Too Far" about Operation Market Garden which was a resounding loss and failure for the US and Britain.
 
Nov 17, 2019
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Seems like the news is kind of late hitting the main stream. I'm finding more focused articles that were posted as much as a week ago:


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Nov 17, 2019
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I'm guessing that is because the Americans lost the battle.
The article above claims differently:

“In no engagement in its entire history has the United States Navy shown more gallantry, guts and gumption than in the two morning hours between 0730 and 0930 off Samar,” Rear Adm. Samuel Eliot Morison wrote.

Because of Evans’ bravery and Johnston’s sacrifice in diverting Japanese attention, General Douglas MacArthur was able to retake the Philippines.

However, due to Halsey’s miscalculations, “the Battle off Samar was for a time the victory whose name the navy dared not speak,” historian Jim Hornfischer noted."
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
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The article above claims differently:

“In no engagement in its entire history has the United States Navy shown more gallantry, guts and gumption than in the two morning hours between 0730 and 0930 off Samar,” Rear Adm. Samuel Eliot Morison wrote.

Because of Evans’ bravery and Johnston’s sacrifice in diverting Japanese attention, General Douglas MacArthur was able to retake the Philippines.

However, due to Halsey’s miscalculations, “the Battle off Samar was for a time the victory whose name the navy dared not speak,” historian Jim Hornfischer noted."


Halsey's poor decision is sometimes referred to as "The Battle of Bull's Run".
 

pmv

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May 30, 2008
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So true. That was 'Dick Van Dycke trying to do cockney' bad.

I can't hold much against Gene after Unforgiven though. Plus he already gave us the best car chase scene of all time. We're cool Hackman, carry on.

Every A-list actor has to have at least one 'terrible attempt at an accent' in their resume. It's some sort of rule. Even Denzil Washington did a really bad Afro-Carribbean/British one in For Queen And Country, so I've heard. Michael Caine has done multiple terrible ones, in order to make up for Meryl Streep breaking the rule by being too good at it.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
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From Admiral Nimitz: "Where is, repeat, where is Task Force 34? The world wonders". Halsey hung those people out to dry falling for the decoy further North, they fought like fucking lions anyway, to give a proper sense of just how badly mismatched it was the Johnston main armament were "5, the Yamoto's were EIGHTEEN inches!. Also of considerable note were the many aircraft that used whatever armament they could find to go after them including dry strafing runs when ammo ran out just to draw off fire, balls of fucking steel that generation had, balls of steel.
 
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BUTCH1

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So true. That was 'Dick Van Dycke trying to do cockney' bad.

I can't hold much against Gene after Unforgiven though. Plus he already gave us the best car chase scene of all time. We're cool Hackman, carry on.
My fav Unforgiven Hackman line was "when your lies don't match those whore lies I'm gonna hurt you Ned and not gentle like before, but bad"