USPS still hermoragging money, $2.2B last quarter

[JMapleton]

"Workers should be taught..."
LOL


I didn't even think they got pensions, but OK, pay them the same salaries that FedEx and UPS drivers get if you want to take away their pensions.

Postal Carriers I've read make about $50k a year.......to put mail in a box. $50k to put a letter in a box.

Is that not enough?

 

[ShawnD1]

Postal Carriers I've read make about $50k a year.......to put mail in a box. $50k to put a letter in a box.

Is that not enough?

More context is needed. 50k in NYC won't go very far. 50k in Wyoming will buy half the state.

 

[Throckmorton]

More context is needed. 50k in NYC won't go very far. 50k in Wyoming will buy half the state.

I found this http://www.nalc.org/depart/cau/pdf/wages/paychart1110.pdf

Don't think they get cost of living allowances for high CoL areas.

They start at 43k and go up to 55k without a degree... wow

 

[Acanthus]

I found this http://www.nalc.org/depart/cau/pdf/wages/paychart1110.pdf

Don't think they get cost of living allowances for high CoL areas.

They start at 43k and go up to 55k without a degree... wow

It's also a civil service job that is mostly occupied by veterans who get bonuses to their scores.

 

[Vette73]

I found this http://www.nalc.org/depart/cau/pdf/wages/paychart1110.pdf

Don't think they get cost of living allowances for high CoL areas.

They start at 43k and go up to 55k without a degree... wow

Yes feds do.
ALL Feds get a pay group and then a locality pay for the area they work in.
And as someone already pointed out a very large group of postal workers are Vets. Many of them are 10-30% disabled Vets.

 

[Double Trouble]

i don't know what their annual operating expenses are but $5B isn't chump change and i'm sure it accounts for a large portion of it.

There's some confusion in this thread about what we're talking about in terms of pensions. As Marlin has pointed out the crazy "pensions" went out a while back and have been replaced with some more rational programs. The $5+ billion is not for pensions, it's for the even more unsustainable health benefits.

It's not the excessive level of pay for (essentially) unskilled labor that's killing the USPS, it's the weight of the health benefits combined with the changing landscape of communications. I'd argue the latter more than anything else.

 

[Acanthus]

A lot of people don't realize that the USPS also handles about 8x of the volume of fedex and UPS combined...

Owning such a massive fleet of aircraft and vehicles is expensive to maintain.. The fact that they have price parity with private competitors is astonishing.

 

[ShawnD1]

A lot of people don't realize that the USPS also handles about 8x of the volume of fedex and UPS combined...

Owning such a massive fleet of aircraft and vehicles is expensive to maintain.. The fact that they have price parity with private competitors is astonishing.

Actually large volume usually drives cost down because it's more efficient. Instead of 1 mail truck splitting the cost among 50 recipients, the cost can be split over 60 or 70. Having low volume would mean something crazy like 1 truck for 5 customers and the price would be astonishingly high.

 

[RFE]

A lot of people don't realize that the USPS also handles about 8x of the volume of fedex and UPS combined...

Owning such a massive fleet of aircraft and vehicles is expensive to maintain.. The fact that they have price parity with private competitors is astonishing.

Then again, the hidden reality is that they don't have price parity as the business model is utter fail.

 

[Throckmorton]

Then again, the hidden reality is that they don't have price parity as the business model is utter fail.

It's not a business model. They're mandated to service every address.

You might as well say that the VA or Medicare aren't as profitable as a private insurance company. Well no shit, they don't get to pick their customers.

 

[PokerGuy]

A lot of people don't realize that the USPS also handles about 8x of the volume of fedex and UPS combined...

Owning such a massive fleet of aircraft and vehicles is expensive to maintain.. The fact that they have price parity with private competitors is astonishing.

What? By that logic we should be astounded that Walmart can compete with small stores.

The larger scale should lead to increased efficiency, better purchasing power and all that.

The ever rising oil/gas prices are sure to be a major hit to the USPS though, that's gotta be one of the biggest expense drivers for them.

 

[Fear No Evil]

When you just watch the USPS drivers and the Fedex/UPS drivers you can see part of the problem. UPS/Fedex stop, jump out of the truck, drop off the package, get back in truck, and they are off. USPS stops at my mailbox, he sorts through things for a while, opens mailbox, sorts some more, puts stuff in.. If there's a box that's too large he'll walk over slowly and put it by the door. Go back to the truck.. slowly drive to next mailbox. Maybe stop to talk to the person walking their dog. Rinse. Repeat.

Fedex/UPS drivers have a fire lit under their ass most of the time and have no interest in chatting. Now I understand UPS/Fedex work their guys hard, but if USPS worked with like 1/3rd the urgency they would probably save a lot of money.

 

[dainthomas]

When you just watch the USPS drivers and the Fedex/UPS drivers you can see part of the problem. UPS/Fedex stop, jump out of the truck, drop off the package, get back in truck, and they are off. USPS stops at my mailbox, he sorts through things for a while, opens mailbox, sorts some more, puts stuff in.. If there's a box that's too large he'll walk over slowly and put it by the door. Go back to the truck.. slowly drive to next mailbox. Maybe stop to talk to the person walking their dog. Rinse. Repeat.

Fedex/UPS drivers have a fire lit under their ass most of the time and have no interest in chatting. Now I understand UPS/Fedex work their guys hard, but if USPS worked with like 1/3rd the urgency they would probably save a lot of money.

I'm sure the carrier is just sitting in their truck shuffling letters around for no reason. Like making sure all the addresses match the box they're going in or something.

And you forgot the UPS/Fedex strategy of increasing efficiency by slapping a tag on your door without knocking so you have to drive down to their facility and pick it up. Maybe the USPS should try that too.

 

[Modelworks]

My uncle was a postman for 30+ years, back before they got trucks and had to carry the mail throughout the route. Then it was hard work. He carried mace for dogs, which I learned about the hard way when I played with it wondering what it was when I was 7, mace + eyes = bad. Anyway, the prioblem with the USPS is it was designed on the idea that volume would make up for any losses. Now that stamped mail has gone way down the model no longer holds true. Try getting UPS or FEDEX to deliver a letter for the price of a stamp. They can't , the business model will not support it.

One model that has saved the USPS some is flat rate shipping. Ebay alone generates millions in that area. I had a guy mail me 20lbs of slate rock for $8 , try that with UPS 3 day delivery.

USPS needs to raise the cost of stamps to be profitable.

 

[Fear No Evil]

I'm sure the carrier is just sitting in their truck shuffling letters around for no reason. Like making sure all the addresses match the box they're going in or something.

And you forgot the UPS/Fedex strategy of increasing efficiency by slapping a tag on your door without knocking so you have to drive down to their facility and pick it up. Maybe the USPS should try that too.

Fedex/UPS in my neighborhood just throw the box at the front door and leave. I know other areas are different, but I've had probably 100+ boxes delivered to my new house and have never had them request a signature.

Why wouldn't USPS sort the mail before it went on the trucks? Wouldn't that be more efficient? Honestly the drivers should simply be slapping it in the mailbox and moving on. Its horribly inefficient for them to be sorting or adding stuff to the mail while idling at my mailbox.

 

[CptObvious]

I can't hate on USPS, Priority Mail is the best deal going for 1-3 lb. items that don't need high insurance. If they could only upgrade their tracking to real tracking instead of delivery confirmation then it would be better than UPS/FedEx. Although I heard it's supposed to happen this fall.

 

[ShawnD1]

I'm sure the carrier is just sitting in their truck shuffling letters around for no reason. Like making sure all the addresses match the box they're going in or something.

Indeed. A lot of it has to do with how close the houses/addresses are. I've seen several cases where houses on the same block have the same house number. My house is one of those houses; a house 1 block away has the same number but is 1 numbered avenue different. The mail guy is stopping by every house on the block, he can't use a GPS. All he can really do is double check the address before putting it in the box.
UPS/FedEx guy is only delivering 1 box on that street and the GPS will tell him exactly where it is.

I'm not sure how USPS guys are paid, but mailmen in Canada do the same shuffling around thing but here they are not paid hourly. They get 8 hours pay, but they are given a bag of mail and told to deliver it. If you finish in 5 hours, you still get paid for 8. Those mail carriers sure walk fast

 

[Modelworks]

I'm not sure how USPS guys are paid, but mailmen in Canada do the same shuffling around thing but here they are not paid hourly. They get 8 hours pay, but they are given a bag of mail and told to deliver it. If you finish in 5 hours, you still get paid for 8. Those mail carriers sure walk fast

When my uncle worked for USPS it was pretty much the same way. He was given the mail in the morning for his route and had that day to deliver it. He could walk, run, whatever as long as it was delivered by 4pm.

 

[dainthomas]

Fedex/UPS in my neighborhood just throw the box at the front door and leave. I know other areas are different, but I've had probably 100+ boxes delivered to my new house and have never had them request a signature.

Why wouldn't USPS sort the mail before it went on the trucks? Wouldn't that be more efficient? Honestly the drivers should simply be slapping it in the mailbox and moving on. Its horribly inefficient for them to be sorting or adding stuff to the mail while idling at my mailbox.

Maybe they do sort it before and are just double-checking. I would think if they were sorting the whole truckload on the fly it would take a little longer than just a bit of shuffling.

 

[Schadenfroh]

1. Raise postage to $1.50 to reduce spam and encourage email, direct deposits, e-billing, etc.
2. Once mail traffic decreases, deliver every other day or twice a week. Businesses can pay extra for daily delivery or consumers can come to the post office if they need it earlier.

 

[Brainonska511]

1. Raise postage to $1.50 to reduce spam and encourage email, direct deposits, e-billing, etc.

Why reduce spam mail? Bulk mail is a huge source of income for the USPS.

 

[Throckmorton]

1. Raise postage to $1.50 to reduce spam and encourage email, direct deposits, e-billing, etc.
2. Once mail traffic decreases, deliver every other day or twice a week. Businesses can pay extra for daily delivery or consumers can come to the post office if they need it earlier.

The reason sending a letter is so cheap is that the cost is subsidized by the huge amount of JUNK MAIL. That's the sole reason the USPS is self supporting. Reducing junk mail deliveries isn't going to save them money.

 

[ShawnD1]

1. Raise postage to $1.50 to reduce spam and encourage email, direct deposits, e-billing, etc.

Spam is often not delivered through the postal service. When I was a wee lad, my friend around the block had a job delivering spam. He was about 12 at the time and he was paid 3 cents per item delivered.

2. Once mail traffic decreases, deliver every other day or twice a week. Businesses can pay extra for daily delivery or consumers can come to the post office if they need it earlier.

No can do. Union. You can't really fire any of your mail people, so they would end up sitting around doing nothing but still get paid. It's better to keep them doing daily work. As they retire, don't immediately replace them, then reduce service at that time.

 

[Schadenfroh]

The reason sending a letter is so cheap is that the cost is subsidized by the huge amount of JUNK MAIL. That's the sole reason the USPS is self supporting. Reducing junk mail deliveries isn't going to save them money.

Who said my objective is to reduce the per-letter cost of mail or even to save The Postal Service in its current form?

My goal is to scale-back the US Postal-Service to adapt to changing times and technology. There are a number of advantages to transitioning away from snail-mail.

Since many here are staunch environmentalists, think of how many fewer trucks and cars will be on the road burning diesel / gas once snail-mail is greatly reduced and Post Office branches are closed. Paper, cardboard, polymers, ink, etc. use will all decrease. At the same time, the amount of trash going to landfills will be reduced (albeit by a small amount).

Electronic forms of communication and payment are the future and much greener, faster, cheaper and arguably as secure (if conducted properly).

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Somehow someone forgot the the USPS doesn't exist to charge as much as it can. It's designed go provide cheap mail delivery not make money.

People compare them with FedEx and UPS. Stop right there. If you want to mail a letter you can pay less than a dollar to the USPS or a whole hell of a lot more to the others. UPS website showed over fifty times more for a letter from Philly to San Fran.

Which of you would rejoice if you had to pay that? You'd go apeshit.

When all is said and done the USPS is the cheapest way to send anything.