I finally just bout myself the Bestbuy router on sale and now am going to hook it up. The only problem is that it will be run out side,up the siding and under the gutter into my room about 75-100' away. Is it possible to run Cat5 cable outside. A lot of people said no, but i was just at Homedepot and they had Outdoor rated Cat5 cable for 0.15/ft. Im still unsure if this would withstand the heat,sunlight and even water,and winter.
Using Cat5e Cable outdoors????
- Thread starter FFactory0x
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We have network wire run that way at my parents house. Its been like that for about a year without any problems. We used the cat5e wire from Home Depot.
I too have run Cat5e outside without a problem. I wasn't too worried about speed loss, so I just made sure it was safe from the elements and there weren't any exposed connectors.
Shielded UTP (UTP = UNSHIELDED twisted pair)...
Shielded or not, "outdoor rated" or not, it's a very bad idea.
The problem is not performance within the LAN, it's the possibility of dangerous power being imparted to the (shielded, unshielded, indoor, outdoor, white, pink, purple, blue, or plenum) cabling. Aside from the (likely) fact that it's WAY out of municipal, state, and national electrical code and EIA/TIA specification, and the fact that UTP will rot in the elements (even plenum rated), NO EXTERNAL COPPER SHOULD ENTER YOUR BUILDING WITHOUT ENTRANCE PROTECTION.
It's very dangerous.
In the (unlikely) event that it is your ONLY (absolute LAST) option. Then it should be in the largest practical metal (grounded to code) conduit, and entrance protection should be in place at both ends.
And, OK, you're willing to risk life & limb (so are the folks that walk in front of / get hit by commuter trains), there's a better than even chance that you'll fry all of your equipment ...then you (or your estate, the survivors) have to do it all over again. OH, OH, OH, AND, BTW, any incidental damage to you, your family, your friends, your house, or your equipment WILL NOT be covered by insurance, because you elected to install out-of-code cabling.
It's very, very, dangeous.
These and other details are covered in several discussions in the Networking Forum, search and read.....
FWIW
Scott
Shielded or not, "outdoor rated" or not, it's a very bad idea.
The problem is not performance within the LAN, it's the possibility of dangerous power being imparted to the (shielded, unshielded, indoor, outdoor, white, pink, purple, blue, or plenum) cabling. Aside from the (likely) fact that it's WAY out of municipal, state, and national electrical code and EIA/TIA specification, and the fact that UTP will rot in the elements (even plenum rated), NO EXTERNAL COPPER SHOULD ENTER YOUR BUILDING WITHOUT ENTRANCE PROTECTION.
It's very dangerous.
In the (unlikely) event that it is your ONLY (absolute LAST) option. Then it should be in the largest practical metal (grounded to code) conduit, and entrance protection should be in place at both ends.
And, OK, you're willing to risk life & limb (so are the folks that walk in front of / get hit by commuter trains), there's a better than even chance that you'll fry all of your equipment ...then you (or your estate, the survivors) have to do it all over again. OH, OH, OH, AND, BTW, any incidental damage to you, your family, your friends, your house, or your equipment WILL NOT be covered by insurance, because you elected to install out-of-code cabling.
It's very, very, dangeous.
These and other details are covered in several discussions in the Networking Forum, search and read.....
FWIW
Scott
FFactory0x: For the last 3 years I ran 120 feet of regular cat5 under the roof edge and I haven't had any problems. It's coming off a Linksys 4 port router.
ROJAS
ROJAS
How much cable would it take to just run it inside the house? It seems like that's a possible option.
I have some Cat5 running from my house to the neighbours house. All we did was put it underground and it's been working perfectly for over a year.
aircooled
Lifer
- Oct 10, 2000
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Everyone always says not to do this....but think about your standard phone line.. it's a copper wire connection running from your street to your house undergrounf with no conduit. Running cat5 outdoors is no more dangerous than your common phone line from the street.
Also large corporations with multi-bulding campus's run LAN's with cat5 from building to building with no problems.
Also large corporations with multi-bulding campus's run LAN's with cat5 from building to building with no problems.
After reading this last night, I went into work today and spoke with the networking crew. They all said that they have run networking cable outdoors (ie cat 5e, shielded or not) and have never had anything go wrong with it. The only thing I would do before running it outside is to make sure that there is no cracks in the sheath so that moisture cannot get in. But according to the people I work with, they all say go for it.
Aircooled: The phone line DOES go through entrance protection, either at the NID ( the grey box on the side of your house) or, if you trace the line coming in, before ti gets to the main "biscuit block," it connectes to a surge suppressor.
NO. Large corporations do not run Cat5 outdoors between buildings. They run fiber. Large corporations can't afford the liabilities, and have the money to do it properly (unless they have an extremely low-calibre networking department: Unlikely).
KrazedKid: Then your network crew is as ignorant about cabling as 95% of the existing networking technical population...it's a bad idea. It works (if done right), but it's dangerous. Talk to someone that does cabling...not a bunch of Microsoft-trained weenies that know NOTHING about cabling.
Unless it's in (properly installed/grounded) conduit, and used with entrance protection on both ends, it's a major hazard. The conduit has to be large enough so that it doesn't alter the characteristics of the cabling ( like adding a "shield" to the UNshielded cable).
If you wanna do it, then do it. I'm not the cable police, I don't care. The question asked related to issues with installing Category-rated Unshielded Twisted pair outdoors. There are issues: it's dangerous. Believe it or not.
How you cable your place is none of my concern. Just be forewarned, people and property are at risk. Your insurance will not cover death, injury, or damages if the cause is found to be related to your non-code cabling. Check it out with your insurance agent.
Good Luck
Scott
NO. Large corporations do not run Cat5 outdoors between buildings. They run fiber. Large corporations can't afford the liabilities, and have the money to do it properly (unless they have an extremely low-calibre networking department: Unlikely).
KrazedKid: Then your network crew is as ignorant about cabling as 95% of the existing networking technical population...it's a bad idea. It works (if done right), but it's dangerous. Talk to someone that does cabling...not a bunch of Microsoft-trained weenies that know NOTHING about cabling.
Unless it's in (properly installed/grounded) conduit, and used with entrance protection on both ends, it's a major hazard. The conduit has to be large enough so that it doesn't alter the characteristics of the cabling ( like adding a "shield" to the UNshielded cable).
If you wanna do it, then do it. I'm not the cable police, I don't care. The question asked related to issues with installing Category-rated Unshielded Twisted pair outdoors. There are issues: it's dangerous. Believe it or not.
How you cable your place is none of my concern. Just be forewarned, people and property are at risk. Your insurance will not cover death, injury, or damages if the cause is found to be related to your non-code cabling. Check it out with your insurance agent.
Good Luck
Scott
Scott,
You raise a very valid point, even if it is incredibly unlikely that something bad will happen - there is indeed great potential.
Personally, I could care less.
Sure, you run the risk of damaging your equipment - but my house full of drunken yobbos is far more hazardous to my equipment than a bit of external cabling is EVER gonna be.
Another thing - wouldn't a TV Roof Antenna be just as hazardous?
Sure, it's not 100% copper, But surely there's nearly as much potential there?
What about satelite dishes for broadband? Don't they use copper cabling?
Last I checked they didn't have anything hardcore in the way of protection...
So overall I agree that it's definately not something that an electrical engineer is gonna be impressed with - but I think statistically you're more likely to choke on your own tounge...
You raise a very valid point, even if it is incredibly unlikely that something bad will happen - there is indeed great potential.
Personally, I could care less.
Sure, you run the risk of damaging your equipment - but my house full of drunken yobbos is far more hazardous to my equipment than a bit of external cabling is EVER gonna be.
Another thing - wouldn't a TV Roof Antenna be just as hazardous?
Sure, it's not 100% copper, But surely there's nearly as much potential there?
What about satelite dishes for broadband? Don't they use copper cabling?
Last I checked they didn't have anything hardcore in the way of protection...
So overall I agree that it's definately not something that an electrical engineer is gonna be impressed with - but I think statistically you're more likely to choke on your own tounge...
Proper installation of a TV antenna or satellite dish includes the use of a grounding block. Every antenna supplier and satellite dish manufacturer or supplier warns that proper grounding is necessary to prevent death or injury.
By code (NEC), all external copper entering an inhabited structure must be properly grounded / suppressed (including some rules for conduit use).
There are many other dangers besides lightning. Static buildup can kill the equipment. Differences in the ground values from one location to another (like the poster above with cable between houses, buried) can nuke the equipment, and may also be a large enough potential to kill or injure. bad/ failed ground in one location may cause hazardous current to flow through the cable and nuke the equipment or people using the equipment. Failed or weak neutral lines may cause dangerous currents through the cable, nuking the equipment or the poeple using it.
This is the short list. There's lots of bad thing that can happen when people are too lazy or stupid to understand why the rules exist. Nuts, someone has to make it to the Darwin List. At least the stupid can provide some entertainment to the rest of the population.....
In the words of a local radio host: "Stupid people die in stupid ways, and that ain't necessarily a bad thing..."
JM.02
Scott
By code (NEC), all external copper entering an inhabited structure must be properly grounded / suppressed (including some rules for conduit use).
There are many other dangers besides lightning. Static buildup can kill the equipment. Differences in the ground values from one location to another (like the poster above with cable between houses, buried) can nuke the equipment, and may also be a large enough potential to kill or injure. bad/ failed ground in one location may cause hazardous current to flow through the cable and nuke the equipment or people using the equipment. Failed or weak neutral lines may cause dangerous currents through the cable, nuking the equipment or the poeple using it.
This is the short list. There's lots of bad thing that can happen when people are too lazy or stupid to understand why the rules exist. Nuts, someone has to make it to the Darwin List. At least the stupid can provide some entertainment to the rest of the population.....
In the words of a local radio host: "Stupid people die in stupid ways, and that ain't necessarily a bad thing..."
JM.02
Scott
Point noted...
Im quite a fan of darwinian logic, actually
But again, aside from the risk of equipment damage (which can in certain cases be deemed an acceptable risk), I still say that the risk of personal injury is really marginal...
After all, there are quite a few homes around the place that use copper piping running to the outside water heaters (and roof-mounted solar heaters) - there's DEFINATELY no form of enterance protection involved there, effectively making your entire house's plumbing a potential "lightning attraction device"
Stupidity has to be definined as ignorance.
Since i'm not ignorant to the dangers, you could probably only define it as laziness.
And in that case, yes I may be too lazy to be concerned about a few meters of cat5.
But, I'm also too lazy to care about the fact that driving sideways could get me killed... or that using my mobile phone could give me cancer, or that my microwave may be contacting extra-terrestrial lifeforms and instructing them to commence an attack on the world.
So yes, there's a danger - and yes, you could argue that although the chances of injury are minimal, there IS a chance, and avoiding it means one less thing to worry about.
So is external cat5 a bad idea?
That all depends on how paranoid you are, i'd say...
By the way, dont ever buy an AMD cpu - there's a chance you could break it installing the heatsink, so it's best to avoid purchasing one entirely, to reduce your chance of equipment damage.
I dotn think i'm capable of saying "PFFFFFFT" at the required volume
Im quite a fan of darwinian logic, actually
But again, aside from the risk of equipment damage (which can in certain cases be deemed an acceptable risk), I still say that the risk of personal injury is really marginal...
After all, there are quite a few homes around the place that use copper piping running to the outside water heaters (and roof-mounted solar heaters) - there's DEFINATELY no form of enterance protection involved there, effectively making your entire house's plumbing a potential "lightning attraction device"
Stupidity has to be definined as ignorance.
Since i'm not ignorant to the dangers, you could probably only define it as laziness.
And in that case, yes I may be too lazy to be concerned about a few meters of cat5.
But, I'm also too lazy to care about the fact that driving sideways could get me killed... or that using my mobile phone could give me cancer, or that my microwave may be contacting extra-terrestrial lifeforms and instructing them to commence an attack on the world.
So yes, there's a danger - and yes, you could argue that although the chances of injury are minimal, there IS a chance, and avoiding it means one less thing to worry about.
So is external cat5 a bad idea?
That all depends on how paranoid you are, i'd say...
By the way, dont ever buy an AMD cpu - there's a chance you could break it installing the heatsink, so it's best to avoid purchasing one entirely, to reduce your chance of equipment damage.
I dotn think i'm capable of saying "PFFFFFFT" at the required volume
You can run cat5 cable though conduit underground. It should be safe to do so, because there are legal housing wires & conduit that design to go between buiding & underground for lighting. Some people may object to this, but what you want can be done. Check your local hardware store & ask an electrician for your local wirring code.
If it is normal CAT5 cable, I wouldn't do it.
However, since CAT5 cable is a low voltage wire, there is no fire danger if there *is* a problem. The only problem might be data transfer rates or connectivity if the wire integrity is comprimised (sp).
However, since CAT5 cable is a low voltage wire, there is no fire danger if there *is* a problem. The only problem might be data transfer rates or connectivity if the wire integrity is comprimised (sp).
If you have any outside lines coming into your home, they must be properly grounded and/or have proper lighting/overvolt protection. Your home phone lines are only two pairs of 24 or 26 gauge wire, but they have lightning arresters (heat coils) at the Central Office (CO) and at the Network Interface Device (NID). Your cable TV or satellite coax has a grounding block that must be installed before the cable enters the interior of the house. Copper or iron water pipes are already grounded by nature, as they are simple a huge copper tubes connected to a pipe that is buried under ground.
Cat 5 cable has no provisions for grounding. The equipment doesn't have proper lightning protection, so any excessive voltage will simply blow your hub/switch/router/whatever.
You CAN make bolts out of plastic. Your car MAY hold together 99% of the time, but what about that time it doesn't? You CAN run Cat 5 outside, but what happens if something goes wrong? You either have dead equipment or you get the s#!t shocked out of you.
So now the question is:
Can you use underground coax to go between buildings? There must be some sort of equipment that converts UTP to Coax. The military buys T1 lines from us and we terminate them at a common building. They take the lines and run them between buildings. You can't tell me that they've been running fiber just for a T1 line, are they? I don't think they're running Cat 5 underground, so what are they running between buildings?
JamesM
Cat 5 cable has no provisions for grounding. The equipment doesn't have proper lightning protection, so any excessive voltage will simply blow your hub/switch/router/whatever.
You CAN make bolts out of plastic. Your car MAY hold together 99% of the time, but what about that time it doesn't? You CAN run Cat 5 outside, but what happens if something goes wrong? You either have dead equipment or you get the s#!t shocked out of you.
So now the question is:
Can you use underground coax to go between buildings? There must be some sort of equipment that converts UTP to Coax. The military buys T1 lines from us and we terminate them at a common building. They take the lines and run them between buildings. You can't tell me that they've been running fiber just for a T1 line, are they? I don't think they're running Cat 5 underground, so what are they running between buildings?
JamesM
There are a number of BNC/coax to UTP transceivers (10BASE-T) available from folks like Milan, Allied Telesyn, Black Box, etc.
You still need entrance protection on the coax to prevent undesired current flows and environmental hazards.
Between buildings, fiber is your best bet, followed by wireless.
Most electrical house fires are caused by people drawing too much current through extension cords that are not rated high enough (the conductors are too small, or they are covered and can't radiate the heat sufficiently). Standard UTP burns like an entheusiastic candle. Take some outside and try it. Current will take the best discharge path, it doesn't know that UTP is "low voltage cable." Too much current, the cable gets hot, the cable burns.
Even if you run the cable underground, in conduit, you still need entrance protection (like the product frm Avaya) to prevent power differential, ground differential, or failing electrical systems from killing your equipment, your family, your pets, or you.
FWIW
Scott
You still need entrance protection on the coax to prevent undesired current flows and environmental hazards.
Between buildings, fiber is your best bet, followed by wireless.
Most electrical house fires are caused by people drawing too much current through extension cords that are not rated high enough (the conductors are too small, or they are covered and can't radiate the heat sufficiently). Standard UTP burns like an entheusiastic candle. Take some outside and try it. Current will take the best discharge path, it doesn't know that UTP is "low voltage cable." Too much current, the cable gets hot, the cable burns.
Even if you run the cable underground, in conduit, you still need entrance protection (like the product frm Avaya) to prevent power differential, ground differential, or failing electrical systems from killing your equipment, your family, your pets, or you.
FWIW
Scott
Originally posted by: PH0ENIX
Point noted...
Im quite a fan of darwinian logic, actually
But again, aside from the risk of equipment damage (which can in certain cases be deemed an acceptable risk), I still say that the risk of personal injury is really marginal...
After all, there are quite a few homes around the place that use copper piping running to the outside water heaters (and roof-mounted solar heaters) - there's DEFINATELY no form of enterance protection involved there, effectively making your entire house's plumbing a potential "lightning attraction device"
If I remember correctly, the copper piping in your house *is* grounded. But again, I may be misremembering things.
Ignorance and stupidity are different.
Laziness and stupidity.
This is a different situation. Being an oaf and breaking a cpu isnt as physically dangerous as getting electrocuted. But whatever.
I dotn think i'm capable of saying "PFFFFFFT" at the required volume
All ScottMac is trying to do is inform the original poster of the risks. If he decides to accept those risks and plant some cat5 without the proper protections, that is his business. ScottMac has better things to do than knock on doors. Trying to keep the knowledge of the risks away from the original poster is not only rude, it can be dangerous.
FFactory0x, talk to a local electrician about it. Ask him the risks and what all you would have to do to keep everything at legal specs.
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