"Users fight to save Windows xp"

Tempered81

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
6,374
1
81
Found this on Google news:

(Cut 'n Pasted)

Article:
http://ap.google.com/article/A...qZ_M-Euh6DntwD901KB280

Related topics:
http://news.google.com/nwshp?h...&tab=wn&ncl=1149288572

"Users Fight to Save Windows XP
By JESSICA MINTZ ? 7 hours ago

SEATTLE (AP) ? Microsoft Corp.'s operating systems run most personal computers around the globe and are a cash cow for the world's largest software maker. But you'd never confuse a Windows user with the passionate fans of Mac OS X or even the free Linux operating system. Unless it's someone running Windows XP, a version Microsoft wants to retire.

Fans of the six-year-old operating system set to be pulled off store shelves in June have papered the Internet with blog posts, cartoons and petitions recently. They trumpet its superiority to Windows Vista, Microsoft's latest PC operating system, whose consumer launch last January was greeted with lukewarm reviews.

No matter how hard Microsoft works to persuade people to embrace Vista, some just can't be wowed. They complain about Vista's hefty hardware requirements, its less-than-peppy performance, occasional incompatibility with other programs and devices and frequent, irritating security pop-up windows.

For them, the impending disappearance of XP computers from retailers, and the phased withdrawal of technical support in coming years, is causing a minor panic.

Take, for instance, Galen Gruman. A longtime technology journalist, Gruman is more accustomed to writing about trends than starting them.

But after talking to Windows users for months, he realized his distaste for Vista and strong attachment to XP were widespread.

"It sort of hit us that, wait a minute, XP will be gone as of June 30. What are we going to do?" he said. "If no one does something, it's going to be gone."

So Gruman started a Save XP Web petition, gathering since January more than 100,000 signatures and thousands of comments, mostly from die-hard XP users who want Microsoft to keep selling it until the next version of Windows is released, currently targeted for 2010.

On the petition site's comments section, some users proclaimed they will downgrade from Vista to XP ? an option available in the past to businesses, but now open for the first time to consumers who buy Vista Ultimate or Business editions ? if they need to buy a new computer after XP goes off the market.

Others used the comments section to rail against the very idea that Microsoft has the power to enforce the phase-out from a stable, decent product to one that many consider worse, while profiting from the move. Many threatened to leave Windows for Apple or Linux machines.

Microsoft already extended the XP deadline once, but it shows no signs it will do so again. The company has declined to meet with Gruman to consider the petition. Microsoft is aware of the petition, it said in a statement to The Associated Press, and "will continue to be guided by feedback we hear from partners and customers about what makes sense based on their needs."

Gruman said he'd keep pressing for a meeting.

"They really believe if they just close their eyes, people will have no choice," he said.

In fact, most people who get a new computer will end up with Vista. In 2008, 94 percent of new Windows machines for consumers worldwide will run Vista, forecasts industry research group IDC. For businesses, about 75 percent of new PCs will have Vista. (That figure takes into account companies that choose to downgrade to XP.)

Although Microsoft may not budge on selling new copies of XP, it may have to extend support for it.

Al Gillen, an IDC analyst, estimated that at the end of 2008 nearly 60 percent of consumer PCs and almost 70 percent of business PCs worldwide will still run XP. Microsoft plans to end full support ? including warranty claims and free help with problems ? in April 2009. The company will continue providing a more limited level of service until April 2014.

Gillen said efforts like Gruman's grass-roots petition may not influence the software maker, but business customers' demands should carry more clout.

"You really can't make 69 percent of your installed base unhappy with you," he said.

Some companies ? such as Wells Manufacturing Co. in Woodstock, Ill. ? are crossing their fingers that he's right. The company, which melts scrap steel and casts iron bars, has 200 PCs that run Windows 2000 or XP. (Windows 2000 is no longer sold on PCs. Mainstream support has ended, but limited support is available through the middle of 2010.)

Wells usually replaces 50 of its PCs every 18 months. In the most recent round of purchases, Chief Information Officer Lou Peterhans said, the company stuck with XP because several of its applications don't run well on Vista.

"There is no strong reason to go to Vista, other than eventually losing support for XP," he said. Peterhans added that the company isn't planning to bring in Vista computers for 18 months to two years. If Microsoft keeps to its current timetable, its next operating system, code-named Windows 7, will be on the market by then. "

On the Net:
Save XP Petition: http://weblog.infoworld.com/save-xp/
Microsoft's Windows support timeline: http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifepolicy
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
What a bunch of fools. Somebody needs to write a petition site full of malware and send these xp machines with admin rights there and bring them back to reality.
 

Griffinhart

Golden Member
Dec 7, 2004
1,130
1
76
What's even funnier is this petition thing isn't new. It's been around for months. They've collected "111K signatures" in 4 months.

Amusingly, the petition to stop Uwe Boll from making movies is almost up to 200K signatures in just a bit over a week.

 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: Griffinhart
What's even funnier is this petition thing isn't new. It's been around for months. They've collected "111K signatures" in 4 months.

Amusingly, the petition to stop Uwe Boll from making movies is almost up to 200K signatures in just a bit over a week.

lmao
 

surfsatwerk

Lifer
Mar 6, 2008
10,110
5
81
This just in: Citizens riot against use of the wheel, claim dragging things about should be sufficient substitute.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
81
Are you the new "I'm going to post and run every anti-vista/pro-xp article I can find" guy?

When windows 7 comes out, people will want to "save" Vista.
 

Tempered81

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
6,374
1
81
Originally posted by: BD2003
Are you the new "I'm going to post and run every anti-vista/pro-xp article I can find" guy?

When windows 7 comes out, people will want to "save" Vista.

If posting one (1) article makes me the guy, then i guess?

You can be the "defend windows vista" guy
 

VinDSL

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2006
4,869
1
81
www.lenon.com
Originally posted by: BD2003
When windows 7 comes out, people will want to "save" Vista.

I've never understood the mindset that causes otherwise rational ppl to run the newest hardware and oldest software... :roll:
 

Crusty

Lifer
Sep 30, 2001
12,684
2
81
Originally posted by: VinDSL
Originally posted by: BD2003
When windows 7 comes out, people will want to "save" Vista.

I've never understood the mindset that causes otherwise rational ppl to run the newest hardware and oldest software... :roll:

In general the older the software the more mature it is. Which means less security holes and less bugs. Although, when the software vendor is going to remove support and stop selling the software that's usually a good indication that the new software is mature enough to not cause any problems.

That being said, who is MS to tell you what OS you run on your computer.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
81
Originally posted by: Crusty
Originally posted by: VinDSL
Originally posted by: BD2003
When windows 7 comes out, people will want to "save" Vista.

I've never understood the mindset that causes otherwise rational ppl to run the newest hardware and oldest software... :roll:

In general the older the software the more mature it is. Which means less security holes and less bugs. Although, when the software vendor is going to remove support and stop selling the software that's usually a good indication that the new software is mature enough to not cause any problems.

That being said, who is MS to tell you what OS you run on your computer.

Well, unless the previous software was windows 98, which crashed so often I wonder how we ever used it. No one wants to go back to that, so when their XP is stable, and they hear all these bad things about Vista, theyre loathe to upgrade.

Either way, the premise of the OP is pretty stupid, I could buy a brand new Windows 95 off of ebay right now. Its never going to be impossible to find your OS of choice.
 

Crusty

Lifer
Sep 30, 2001
12,684
2
81
Originally posted by: BD2003
Originally posted by: Crusty
Originally posted by: VinDSL
Originally posted by: BD2003
When windows 7 comes out, people will want to "save" Vista.

I've never understood the mindset that causes otherwise rational ppl to run the newest hardware and oldest software... :roll:

In general the older the software the more mature it is. Which means less security holes and less bugs. Although, when the software vendor is going to remove support and stop selling the software that's usually a good indication that the new software is mature enough to not cause any problems.

That being said, who is MS to tell you what OS you run on your computer.

Well, unless the previous software was windows 98, which crashed so often I wonder how we ever used it. No one wants to go back to that, so when their XP is stable, and they hear all these bad things about Vista, theyre loathe to upgrade.

Either way, the premise of the OP is pretty stupid, I could buy a brand new Windows 95 off of ebay right now. Its never going to be impossible to find your OS of choice.

Of course. That's why I said "I general".

Windows XP is a great OS in terms of a Windows OS and people should be reluctant to upgrade something that isn't broken. What people fail to realize is that in order for companies to keep on innovating and improving their software they need to keep the users on the front of that innovation, otherwise there is no income stream and lack of motivation on the development side(Why develop something if nobody is going to use it?). The easiest way and most cost effective way for MS to do this is to cut everyone off and force them to upgrade.
 

EndGame

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2002
1,276
0
0
Wow, kind of like the groups and petitions that went around about W98 and W2K........anyone see a trend here?:roll:
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
Its really simple.
If people are willing to continue to pay for XP, MS will continue to sell it.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: Crusty
Originally posted by: VinDSL
Originally posted by: BD2003
When windows 7 comes out, people will want to "save" Vista.

I've never understood the mindset that causes otherwise rational ppl to run the newest hardware and oldest software... :roll:

In general the older the software the more mature it is. Which means less security holes and less bugs. Although, when the software vendor is going to remove support and stop selling the software that's usually a good indication that the new software is mature enough to not cause any problems.

That being said, who is MS to tell you what OS you run on your computer.

In theory I suppose. Though I'd take Vista out of the box over XP SP3.
 

kylef

Golden Member
Jan 25, 2000
1,430
0
0
Originally posted by: Modelworks
Its really simple.
If people are willing to continue to pay for XP, MS will continue to sell it.

Agreed, but it also depends on the support costs associated with continuing to sell XP. Today by all outward appearance, Microsoft only has the personnel to support 2 client versions of Windows at a time (XP and Vista right now). If they extend the XP sales period, it would require a corresponding increase in the support period, which would then overlap with the release of Win7 in 2009, and they would have 3 releases to support. This would undoubtedly require more personnel.

So before this would make sense from a business perspective, they must expect to see a definite increase in sales to offset the additional support burden. In other words, how many MORE total Windows licenses would be sold if XP, Vista, and Windows 7 were all available, rather than just Vista and Win7?

It's not clear that the incremental sales number would be very high, and very unclear that the proceeds would pay for the support costs. It is in fact likely that many of those who would choose WinXP would probably just buy some other version of Windows if it weren't for sale. In this case, a sale of Vista allows Microsoft to shift expensive support resources over to newer products while maintaining revenue.

So the business decision of how long to keep selling an older product is not so clear-cut when the support costs are so high.
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
155
106
i would trash Vista in a heartbeat if it werent for the fact that we are forced to use Vista to utilze DX10.

Kudos to the people "rioting" :)
And a big "No!" to people blindly stating "Vista is better since it is newer". Please bring FACTS and real arguments at the table..and no empty words.

I take a fast, ultra-reliable and dependable XP w/ DX10 *ANY FRICKIN DAY* over my current Vista.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
81
Originally posted by: flexy
i would trash Vista in a heartbeat if it werent for the fact that we are forced to use Vista to utilze DX10.

Kudos to the people "rioting" :)
And a big "No!" to people blindly stating "Vista is better since it is newer". Please bring FACTS and real arguments at the table..and no empty words.

I take a fast, ultra-reliable and dependable XP w/ DX10 *ANY FRICKIN DAY* over my current Vista.

Well, there's a giant laundry list of places where vista has improved over XP, but by and large that is going to come at the cost of extra CPU cycles, memory and HD space. You can't get something for nothing, and theres no point in reiterating the specifics because its been done dozens of times.

I think it would be a very good idea for MS to keep XP around in some form, given the proliferation of these ultra-small, ultra-cheap laptops and desktops. They don't want to entirely give that away to linux because theyre dead set on a single monolithic OS that doesnt run or fit as well on older/cheaper hardware.

Granted, theres always going to be the fringe that sticks with the older OS because its faster and leaner in some ways, and why not appease them too? An OS sale is an OS sale.

When they can modularize windows to the point where it can just as easily be shrunk down to work with budget systems as it does with bleeding edge systems, then they can do away with the need for the older OSes. Right now, there is a very serious market for a lighter OS like XP, and theyre going to do themselves long term damage if they ignore it.

Seems like theyre serious about modularizing, but the fruits of that labor wont be seen for years.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Originally posted by: n7
Ignorance is bliss.

See this is the kinda BS mentality from Vista supporter. So there is no valid reason for wanting to use XP for the foreseeable future for anybody, any kind of computing need, or any type of system? And the only reason people want to continue to use XP and not paying MS for the upgrade is ignorance?
 

thegorx

Senior member
Dec 10, 2003
451
0
0
Yeah, I'm going out and buy the ultimite version right now !!!!!
Vista is OEM, I doubt if retail sales are going thru the roof.
It will make the next OS look good though, kind of what that lemon windows ME did for XP.
How long did it take MS to come out with Leghorn \ Vista "cruiser" , you just knew it was going to be a lemon when they named it Vista, .... how retro .... which square peg thunk that one up. MS better get cracking and start stealing some innovative open source ideas. But they're too busy trying to buy up yahoo, now there is a innovative company, maybe in the 90's ?
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
81
Originally posted by: thegorx
Yeah, I'm going out and buy the ultimite version right now !!!!!
Vista is OEM, I doubt if retail sales are going thru the roof.
It will make the next OS look good though, kind of what that lemon windows ME did for XP.
How long did it take MS to come out with Leghorn \ Vista "cruiser" , you just knew it was going to be a lemon when they named it Vista, .... how retro .... which square peg thunk that one up. MS better get cracking and start stealing some innovative open source ideas. But they're too busy trying to buy up yahoo, now there is a innovative company, maybe in the 90's ?

As much as I like open source, I wouldnt exactly look to them for innovation.
 

RebateMonger

Elite Member
Dec 24, 2005
11,586
0
0
Originally posted by: kylef
Today by all outward appearance, Microsoft only has the personnel to support 2 client versions of Windows at a time (XP and Vista right now).
It's likely that XP will be only an OEM product by 2009. OEM products are supported by the system builder, and not by Microsoft. In that case, MS' efforts would be limited to providing critical security patches for XP.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Originally posted by: flexy
i would trash Vista in a heartbeat if it werent for the fact that we are forced to use Vista to utilze DX10.

Kudos to the people "rioting" :)
And a big "No!" to people blindly stating "Vista is better since it is newer". Please bring FACTS and real arguments at the table..and no empty words.

I take a fast, ultra-reliable and dependable XP w/ DX10 *ANY FRICKIN DAY* over my current Vista.

I think its about time Microsoft killed XP,it has had more then a long enough run ,its overdue to be phased out IMHO,its a fact operating systems don't last forever,signing a petition for an OS that is not far off being a decade old is a joke.



Microsoft should just get tough and kill XP.

XP users will always think they are right,but most of us know better, die hard XP users get over it,XP days are NUMBERED REGARDLESS OF VISTA.
We all have to move forward sooner or later,you don't see me bitching about my favourite Microsoft OS of all time(DOS 6.22) ,I have moved with the times.



I take a fast, ultra-reliable and dependable XP w/ DX10 *ANY FRICKIN DAY* over my current Vista.

I'll take Vista with DX10 over XP anyday,its more secure,superior memory handling,rock stable and nippy on BOTH my systems,longer life span ,I could go on but you get my point ;).I hope Windows 7 is an improvement on Vista because that means the best just got better :).
 

kylef

Golden Member
Jan 25, 2000
1,430
0
0
Originally posted by: RebateMonger
It's likely that XP will be only an OEM product by 2009. OEM products are supported by the system builder, and not by Microsoft. In that case, MS' efforts would be limited to providing critical security patches for XP.

Critical security patches AND any other patches deemed critical by the OEMs. You'd be surprised how much effort this involves. There is an entire wing of the Windows organization (Sustained Engineering) dedicated to this task, and a large portion of the main Windows team gets pulled into the investigations too.

The key is that Microsoft is on the hook for all investigations until XP enters "extended" support mode. Only then does the burden relax a bit (bugs approved by a security triage).

I would wager that Microsoft spends a great deal more on patching than it does on staffing help desk phones, although I don't have the numbers to prove it. :)