Used game sales. WTF happened.

[Sonikku]

Every where you look in the four corners of the net gaming websites and developers are SCREAMING in bloody terror of how used game sales are the apocalypse. Now developers are putting Microsoft and Sony under pressure to lock out all used game sales/require always active internet connections and all kinds of wonky shit and hoops to jump through for consumers in exchange for their full support in third party game development.

I guess the question is... What the fuck happened? I've seen used games on store shelves since the NES era in the Electronic Boutique days. Used games have been around for DECADES. Even in the past generation of consoles this was never a big deal. Now suddenly it's all doom and gloom out of no where? What was it about this generation that turned the world upside down?

What are your thoughts?

 

[mmntech]

It really boils down to used games becoming a core business model for Gamestop. It's pure greed on the publisher's part, who feel they are entitled to the money from used game sales. You can chirp GS but profit margins on new games are fairly thin. Selling used games is how they make money. Where GS does go wrong is offering low trade values and selling used copies at a relatively high price. In some cases, used copies of new releases (via "online passes") can end up being more expensive than new copies of, which is exactly how the publishers want it.

So gamers are basically getting screwed at both ends... as usual.

 

[rayfieldclement]

Why are used games an issue with publishers and game companies? Listen, we can buy used Books, Tapes, DVDs and VCR tapes. Of course you should be able to buy used games. Eventually ALL material will become like Shakespeare. In the public domain. Anybody can publish it now. video games have been out for almost 40 years.

In the mid 90s a assiciate who worked for Circit City one made 5 whole dollars on new game systems per purchase.

 

[jpiniero]

That's the strange thing about used game sales at Gamestop - their prices are so awful that they should have failed by now. If people are really that price sensitive that they'd be willing to risk the hassle over 5 bucks, why are they not buying online?

 

[rayfieldclement]

That's the strange thing about used game sales at Gamestop - their prices are so awful that they should have failed by now. If people are really that price sensitive that they'd be willing to risk the hassle over 5 bucks, why are they not buying online?

Maybe people want the physical disk to move around from system to system. I am not set on Online games just yet.

 

[pontifex]

everyone got greedier. people used to copy cassettes and vhs tapes without a problem too. now copying movies and cds is illegal.

 

[rayfieldclement]

everyone got greedier. people used to copy cassettes and vhs tapes without a problem too. now copying movies and cds is illegal.

I am not into copying software, movies etc now in the mid 80s it was different. There is a rumour that Microsoft wanted the next xbox to feature a drive that records

 

[rayfieldclement]

Oh yes! I think it is still illegal to Photocopy books or parts of books and Magazines....:hmm:

 

[Anteaus]

If they could have prevented copying 15 years ago, they would have done it 15 years ago. The simple truth is that technology has finally allowed them to do what they had the right to do the day software licensing became a reality.

Making legal backups of software was put into law because of the inherient unreliability of floppy discs and tape. The idea that we own software has entrenched itself as a common mentality, but it is a false one.

People see all this DRM as oppression, but my point is that we have had a long honeymoon period and software is finally being distributed in a manner that was envisioned when software licensing was first described in law. Ironically, it was Bill Gates who was one of the big backers. I don't mean to imply they invisioned digital distribution. Simply that they wanted to keep control of every license. Previously they had to stick a disc in box and hope the licensee obeyed the rules. Now they get to enforce the rules. Whats different now? The only difference is that before they couldn't catch us and now they can.

In the end, we need to make a choice. Either we just stop buying software until the law changes in our favor, or we simply acknowledge that we spend money on software in the same way we buy cheeseburgers....for consumption.

Myself, I'm looking forward to the day when the law will finally be updated to abolish the EULA and give us a concise set of rules that gets rid of all the ambiguity.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Easy Answer. Don't buy. But you will. So no point complaining. There is no such thing as consumer protection anymore.

They want you to pay as much for a bad game as a good game. If you don't, they just defer to pirating (and used games) as the reason the game didn't sell.
They've removed all ability to return said game (years ago).
Now they are trying to remove the ability to at least get something back from it.
Oh, and did we mention, rentals? None of those anymore either.

Future answer: Don't buy a game until it's in the bargain bin, pretty much as I do now. I refuse to pay $60 for a digital copy of a game when the whole pricing scheme was developed due to manufacturing costs and distribution and the throw it out unfinished we'll patch it later mentality that is more prevalent than ever.

Greed is the name of the game. Fast buck, fuck you Chuck. There are quality devs out there, but the publishers/distributors are evil. It's only going to get worse with the next gen consoles.

Digital distribution is both a blessing and a curse.

 

[purbeast0]

personally i don't care about this at all since i purchase the majority of my games on launch day. if a game sucks and i end up selling it (which is very very rare) then in the long run, it still is 1 less sale the dev gets, so i guess it's me "speaking with my wallet." instead of the person buying the game from the store brand new, with money going to the devs pocket, they buy it from me and i recoup some of the money i gave to the devs.

i never trade games into gamestop but at the same time i have no problem with what they are doing. the simple fact is their model is driven by supply and demand.

fwiw ... i'm a software dev too.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Yea..there's a lot of hate toward Gamestop being used to justify the "getting rid of used sales" which I just don't get. People act like it's the only place they can sell used games or buy new games. There are plenty of ways (for now) to sell used games. If you don't like Gamestops practices, don't use it. I don't see what the big deal is.

 

[Skel]

I remember back in the 90s a bunch of recording artists protested the used CD market. The claim was the same as the game publishers are screaming about. It’s a market where they’re IP is being sold without any of it making its way back to them. The protest failed, as the used CD market didn’t notice. The difference in this one is the publishers now have ways to lock down their product. The online codes are quickly becoming common place. Saying you won’t buy a game is all well and good, but with the sales numbers I’ve seen nowhere near enough people are boycotting for the publishers to even notice. Personally I still buy my games new. While I don’t always buy at launch, there are quite a few I have and will do in the future. I don’t however punch in my code, but I also don’t buy my games to play online. Oddly enough the same system that replaced CDs (digital downloads) are making their way to the console market. I don’t believe it’ll be this next generation, but possible the one after it will be exclusively digital. At that point the argument on used games will be over as you won’t be able to sell off a used game.

On the side note, I get it’s easy to pick on the publishers as they’re normally the ones hyping up the game, but I’ve yet to see a developer scream about how they’re so against it. Far as I can tell they’re part of the problem, we just forgive them because they’re the ones that created it.

 

[lamedude]

In the fiscal year ending May 2010, 48.1% of GameStop's profits came from the sale of used video game products.

Looking it up shows 570 million in sales from used games from Gamestop alone. Not a small amount publishers losing out on.

 

[blurredvision]

everyone got greedier. people used to copy cassettes and vhs tapes without a problem too. now copying movies and cds is illegal.

There also weren't 6500+ stores in operation that make billions of dollars on selling those copied VHS and cassette tapes. If I were a developer, I'd try to shut out Gamestop, too.

 

[Doppel]

IF--BIG IF--used games are taken away it will have a downward pressure on new game prices and/or shorten the time between a new game's high retail (e.g. $60) and its inevitable drop however many months later.

The last games I've bought at release for $60 I bought because I knew I could shortly offload at $40. I wouldn't pay $60 for a game otherwise.

What publishers need to do is try to model gamestop's approach digitally, so that one can still/buy sell games, but that won't be easy, though at least they could then get gamestop's share of market.

 

[rayfieldclement]

There also weren't 6500+ stores in operation that make billions of dollars on selling those copied VHS and cassette tapes. If I were a developer, I'd try to shut out Gamestop, too.

6500+ stores, How so?

 

[BD2003]

IF--BIG IF--used games are taken away it will have a downward pressure on new game prices and/or shorten the time between a new game's high retail (e.g. $60) and its inevitable drop however many months later.

The last games I've bought at release for $60 I bought because I knew I could shortly offload at $40. I wouldn't pay $60 for a game otherwise.

What publishers need to do is try to model gamestop's approach digitally, so that one can still/buy sell games, but that won't be easy, though at least they could then get gamestop's share of market.

Quite the opposite....it's the lower pricing of used games that puts downward pressure on new game prices. Some publishers are more aggressive than others. Wait a month and new ubisoft games drop to $30. I'm sure all the publishers categorically don't want to compete on price, but used games force their hand.

In either case...I dunno, I'm not terribly worried. It's still a super competitive industry. People aren't stupid. They know a game you can't resell is less valuable, and they'll purchase accordingly.

 

[rayfieldclement]

I think we should all buy older system that does not use online codes etc... To show these developers that we can go back to other platforms that generally don't put us through a song and a dance just to play a game on multiple systems. Like from the 90s

 

[ImpulsE69]

I feel another videogame crash coming.

 

[rayfieldclement]

I feel another videogame crash coming.

If game companies don't watch out they could crash the industry....

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Partly because games these days by the by just aren't that great.

 

[viivo]

Gamestop has no need to fear publishers. It's when one of the big three consoles stands up and reminds everyone they make the most profit from first party software, not the hardware. It's inevitable that games on physical media will be phased out in the future. Not for a couple generations maybe, but it will happen.

I find it hilarious that every single used game I've bought had all unused codes in the box. I got two golden weapon codes with Gears 2, one of which was apparently rare and I wish I had sold for $40+, cerberus network with ME2, countless EA online passes. I think half the people in my city aren't even connected to Live.

 

[exdeath]

Greed. /thread

Just wait till its pay per play or per hour.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Looking it up shows 570 million in sales from used games from Gamestop alone. Not a small amount publishers losing out on.

But.. they're not entitled to any share of that anyways. Why would you say that they are "losing out"? They're not losing out on anything.

Look up "First Sale Doctrine", especially how it applies to books and copyright law.

Once a lawfully-made copy of a copyrighted work is sold into the free market, the publisher loses the ability to control the future sales of that copy.