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Used card to hold out until Pascal - 780 (ti) vs 970 vs 980 (ti)

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Best Graphics Card to hold me until Pascal

  • GTX 780 - $200

  • GTX 780 ti - $275

  • GTX 970 - $270

  • GTX 980 - $350

  • GTX 980 ti - $560


Results are only viewable after voting.

USER8000

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2012
1,516
745
136
It seems to be more a monitor issue with his card and it does have G-Sync though. It seems rather an expensive monitor for a GTX960,and they probably should have got a GTX970 due to G-Sync or ditched the monitor.
 

crisium

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2001
2,632
593
136
Also have you tried setting the 290 to stock speeds? Even stock reference if yours is factory OC. You can also try adding +25mv to see if that makes it stable. I've seen either of these work as solutions for other people with Hawaii GPUs for my monitor which is the same panel, but Freesync.

Also, while not ideal for your 144hz display, have you tried 60hz to mitigate the black screen? It may be a DP cable issue more than the card.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1572355/benq-xl2730z-owners-club/200_100#post_24754577
 
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IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,015
3,815
136
Have you tried adding +25mV to your card with Afterburner or reducing the clocks? Flickering can be a sign of borderline RAM clocks.

... or it could just be crappy monitor firmware given that your 290 works fine with other monitors.
 

Azix

Golden Member
Apr 18, 2014
1,438
64
91
Why do you have a g-sync monitor though? You could consider selling that instead and getting a new GPU. I dont think those things are remotely worth it. They have people paying hundreds for a single dispay port monitor locked to a single vendor? That's a decade ago kind of situation (single port). Do yourself a favor and ditch that crap. Way too limiting. There are great IPS monitors available to replace it with. ultrawide this, curved that etc etc

its not the specs that's causing the issue, guessing g-sync doesn't like AMD GPUs (nvidia tech, go figure). I have a mg279q with similar specs except IPS and there's no issue. 144hz is easy, even extended range freesync is easy (have a 290x)



Yeah, I'd definitely keep this 290 (it's a pretty nice Sapphire Tri-X version), but it's been giving me issues with my Asus PG278Q and it's apparently a common thing with AMD cards. Specifically that it flickers and loses display signal randomly every couple seconds or minutes. Shouldn't be the card, since the card works fine with every other monitor (3 specifically) that I've used it with. Also, the 290 is only capable of 120hz refresh rate and not the 144 that the monitor is capable of (which works with my old gtx 960).

Anyway, I had a GTX 960 that worked flawlessly with this monitor, but was painfully slow in comparison. Ended up selling that off a few days ago, so I'm back with the faulty setup.

A side-grade would be best case for me in this scenario (or even a small downgrade would be fine). Just not the 960, as it's a bit too slow for my liking. I definitely realize that the 290 is by far, the best price-performance at the moment. But all in all, it's just the display cutting out every so often that really gives incentive for an nvidia card. In fact, my monitor went black about 6 times in the time it took me to type this. Gsync and ULMB and even 3d vision are just icing on top of the cake.
 

xthetenth

Golden Member
Oct 14, 2014
1,800
528
106
Considering that the real thing you'd be buying is a fix to the monitor issues, I'd try troubleshooting like crisium recommends first, because it's free. Then I'd consider what you'd gain and lose in terms of value and money by going with a new card or a new monitor. You may very well want to keep the monitor because it's a real good fit for CSGO, but there may be a freesync one that also fits well, and give the general relative pricing you may even make money on that exchange. Or you may want to go with a 970 or 980.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,179
1,996
126
Why do you care more about the image of one company instead of simply purchasing the product with the highest performance/value?
I don't actually care about their image. I care about their products. Having used them almost exclusively ever since the fall of 3DFX, including SLI purchases since their inception with the Geforce 6 series (ya I know 3DFX did it first. Get off it), I don't want to see their product support go to hell.
Perhaps Nvidia thinks that just because they have large market share they can get away with giving the customer the short end of the stick to increase profitability and cut back on driver maintenance. Perhaps they think we will just deal with it and buy their stuff anyway.
Things like this can run away quickly on them with people developing a bad taste for their products. Hell, it doesn't even have to be true for people to abandon ship on their asses. People only have to think its true and for most people, that's enough. I've seen enough past vs present comparative benchmarks to know Nvidia no longer gives a damn about product longevity.
 
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dpk33

Senior member
Mar 6, 2011
687
0
76
Sell the monitor. Get a Freesync panel and wait for Polaris/Pascal.
Why do you have a g-sync monitor though? You could consider selling that instead and getting a new GPU. I dont think those things are remotely worth it. They have people paying hundreds for a single dispay port monitor locked to a single vendor? That's a decade ago kind of situation (single port). Do yourself a favor and ditch that crap. Way too limiting. There are great IPS monitors available to replace it with. ultrawide this, curved that etc etc

its not the specs that's causing the issue, guessing g-sync doesn't like AMD GPUs (nvidia tech, go figure). I have a mg279q with similar specs except IPS and there's no issue. 144hz is easy, even extended range freesync is easy (have a 290x)
Well I was more so interested in buying any 1440p monitor with a 144hz refresh rate and I found the PG278Q for about $400 so I decided to go with that. I don't really prefer G-Sync or w.e other technologies, but if it's there, I might as well take advantage of it. But this would all be under the assumption that it's a monitor problem, not playing well with AMD cards.

Also have you tried setting the 290 to stock speeds? Even stock reference if yours is factory OC. You can also try adding +25mv to see if that makes it stable. I've seen either of these work as solutions for other people with Hawaii GPUs for my monitor which is the same panel, but Freesync.

Also, while not ideal for your 144hz display, have you tried 60hz to mitigate the black screen? It may be a DP cable issue more than the card.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1572355/benq-xl2730z-owners-club/200_100#post_24754577
Considering that the real thing you'd be buying is a fix to the monitor issues, I'd try troubleshooting like crisium recommends first, because it's free. Then I'd consider what you'd gain and lose in terms of value and money by going with a new card or a new monitor. You may very well want to keep the monitor because it's a real good fit for CSGO, but there may be a freesync one that also fits well, and give the general relative pricing you may even make money on that exchange. Or you may want to go with a 970 or 980.
I've been reading up on the issue and I have stumbled upon many saying that it's a DP cable issue. But that doesn't make sense, since I used the exact same cable with a GTX 960 and it worked fine. I've tried every refresh rate available and stock clocks, even underclocking a bit.
 
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Azix

Golden Member
Apr 18, 2014
1,438
64
91
The G-sync module replaces an important part of the monitor. Its very likely an issue with that and AMD cards but I haven't seen anyone complaining when using g-sync monitors with AMD cards, though that combo shouldn't be common anyway.

Problem for me is just that its so backwards. The regular monitors w/ or w/o freesync are more elegant and, more importantly, standard. The module introduces unnecessary steps/complexity.

If your card is working fine it most definitely is not the card not being able to do 144hz. The price you got the PG for is good for making a profit on resale. Since you just want a monitor with 144hz, there is no reason to be hassled by The limitations of G-sync. There's a MG278Q TN monitor now if TN is better for CSGO.
 
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dpk33

Senior member
Mar 6, 2011
687
0
76
So as it turns out, this may actually be a card issue. Or maybe an issue involving both the specific card and the specific monitor. I plugged in my old 6950 because I couldn't stand the flickering/loss of display signal every few seconds and low and behold, I don't have the issue anymore. Same DP cable and everything. I ruled out the card near instantly since it worked perfectly fine with my old 1080p 144hz Gsync monitor and another 1920x1200 monitor.
 

xthetenth

Golden Member
Oct 14, 2014
1,800
528
106
I'd consider trying different DP cables if you don't see any other reason for that difference because they are finicky, finicky beasts. I don't have access to the drivers right now, but in the advanced options for the monitor, the bottom option on the left should let you check your connection to the monitor. See how many lanes it's on/how much bandwidth it has for both cards. It might be some weirdness between the 290 and the cable.
 

Azix

Golden Member
Apr 18, 2014
1,438
64
91
Did you say which drivers? Those older cards aren't running the same crimson version iirc.

Maybe you have VSR or GPU scaling enabled and that's causing a problem. Or some other setting unique to the GCN cards. Might not be working too well with the monitor
 

Actaeon

Diamond Member
Dec 28, 2000
8,657
20
76
As others have noted, everything is a downgrade or side grade from a 290 except for the 980 Ti. If you are determined to buy Pascal when its out, you're best keeping what you have, Hawaii was a great chip with long legs. GCN is an amazing architecture. Not worth the hassle to sell the 290, buy something, then sell that one again.

I would ignore all the side grades and downgrades, but if you can find a great deal on a 980 Ti then go for it. I found a killer deal and picked up two high end non-reference custom PCB 980 Tis for about $525 shipped each and I'm gonna SLI them. Even though Pascal is coming up I feel pretty good about buying them at this price.

I would expect GP104 to be comparable in performance as GM200. Maybe slightly better, maybe slightly worse, but in the same general bracket. It is hard to tell especially as GM200 has a ton of overclock headroom left in it. An overclocked GM200 has 25%+ gains over the reference GM200s and they're the same chip. These crazy clock speeds is one of the benefits of an extremely mature 28nm process.

So it is hard to see where GP104 will land in all of that but I expect performance to be comparable. I also expect GP104 to launch around $500. 980/GP204 launched at $550 and add on whatever market up on custom PCBs/coolers.

So if my assumptions are correct that GP104's launches at $550 (very likely IMO) and the performance is similar to GM200 (unknown but reasonable), then the risk of buying a GM200 @ $550 is pretty low. Same performance at the same cost, but you get it today.

A 970-like chip @ $350-400 could be the spoiler, but if its anything like Maxwell's 970 then I'll happily pass. Too gimped.

IMO the one I am looking forward to is Big Pascal. That will be the chip that pushes the performance envelope into a new bracket and will be a meaningful upgrade over GM200. If they follow the Maxwell product launch strategy (and its looking like it) I am expecting that to be available in 2017. I don't think I am comfortable buying a Titan but the Ti could be well worth it though. I figure we are at least a year out from that chip though so I'll happily be using my 980 Tis until then. We'll also learn alot more about Volta by then too.

I would not pay full price for a 980 Ti right now but at a nice discount the risk is much lower.
 
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bigboxes

Lifer
Apr 6, 2002
33,163
11,398
146
I don't actually care about their image. I care about their products. Having used them almost exclusively ever since the fall of 3DFX, including SLI purchases since their inception with the Geforce 6 series (ya I know 3DFX did it first. Get off it), I don't want to see their product support go to hell.
Perhaps Nvidia thinks that just because they have large market share they can get away with giving the customer the short end of the stick to increase profitability and cut back on driver maintenance. Perhaps they think we will just deal with it and buy their stuff anyway.
Things like this can run away quickly on them with people developing a bad taste for their products. Hell, it doesn't even have to be true for people to abandon ship on their asses. People only have to think its true and for most people, that's enough. I've seen enough past vs present comparative benchmarks to know Nvidia no longer gives a damn about product longevity.
Thank you for the reply. I now see where you are coming from.
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
5
76
I don't actually care about their image. I care about their products. Having used them almost exclusively ever since the fall of 3DFX, including SLI purchases since their inception with the Geforce 6 series (ya I know 3DFX did it first. Get off it), I don't want to see their product support go to hell.
Perhaps Nvidia thinks that just because they have large market share they can get away with giving the customer the short end of the stick to increase profitability and cut back on driver maintenance. Perhaps they think we will just deal with it and buy their stuff anyway.
Things like this can run away quickly on them with people developing a bad taste for their products. Hell, it doesn't even have to be true for people to abandon ship on their asses. People only have to think its true and for most people, that's enough. I've seen enough past vs present comparative benchmarks to know Nvidia no longer gives a damn about product longevity.
Well said.

But let's imagine you are running the business. You dominate the market, so it's no longer about competing for gamers to switch over to your products.

It's about how to get the vast majority of the market to upgrade to your new products.

The conclusion from a business pov is what's happening.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,179
1,996
126
Well said.

But let's imagine you are running the business. You dominate the market, so it's no longer about competing for gamers to switch over to your products.

It's about how to get the vast majority of the market to upgrade to your new products.

The conclusion from a business pov is what's happening.
Its amazing how Nvidia is being such a poo poo about product support, yet when I honestly ask myself if I would actually buy AMD next round, I can't help but laugh and say of course not. I am the kind of person who has a hard switch with regard to these things. Once it flips to one side, it tends to stay there until very forcefully slammed back the other way.
I hold out and think maybe this abuse of the customer is temporary or maybe its not even real. Maybe its just because of other reasons like architectural causes and stuff. The only way to really know is to wait another generation or two and watch to see if a pattern really emerges. If it emerges then that's about when I would really start to consider going red. Right now its just speculation to be honest. Only Nvidia really knows what Nvidia knows. I only know that it looks bad from the outside but I'll have to wait and see.
If I buy an AMD product, I risk being stuck with a truly unsupported product because I imagine AMD could literally go out of business at any moment completely. Like vanish from the face of the planet. Gone. Poof! They are that weak IMO. Very fragile and unattractive as a company IMO. No confidence to buy anything from them, sad to say it.
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
5
76
If I buy an AMD product, I risk being stuck with a truly unsupported product because I imagine AMD could literally go out of business at any moment completely. Like vanish from the face of the planet. Gone. Poof! They are that weak IMO. Very fragile and unattractive as a company IMO. No confidence to buy anything from them, sad to say it.
You risk being stuck with an unsupported product because AMD could go bankrupt. Okay, that was kinda said back in 2012 as well.

But here's the thing, which is the more likely risk: NV not optimizing older gen or AMD going bankrupt. :p

One, we've already seen happen. The other, may happen. Though I think Polaris/Zen will have something to say about it, then there's the Nintendo deal, and later on, very likely Zen based PS5 etc. They will be fine, they even clawed back marketshare with ancient GPUs. ;)

ps. NV even promised DX12/Vulkan for Fermi, then they just say "NOPE" and that was all she wrote!
 
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moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,179
1,996
126
Yeah I don't know. Its fun to talk about but none of this stuff really matters anyway. The tech moves so fast and the market shifts so constantly that having any attachments or any beliefs with this stuff is foolhardy. By the time the next big thing is actually available for purchase, no one cares about it because they are focused on the rumors of the next thing coming. People always love the next thing that they can't have yet.
 

Game_dev

Member
Mar 2, 2016
133
0
0
The 970 is still the best mid range card on the market. Buy one and use it until the new gen is fully launched and polished.
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
14,015
3,815
136
The 970 is still the best mid range card on the market. Buy one and use it until the new gen is fully launched and polished.
The 970 is a sidegrade to his 290, and it is only going to fall behind once nVidia stops optimizing drivers for it after Pascal launches. Which will become more apparent as the 3.5GB+0.5GB RAM arrangement hits the wall more frequently.

Most recent example: 780/Ti vs 290/X and their relative performance now. nVidia has not been kind to Kepler owners.

So either figure out the issue (card? cable? monitor?) or:
1) buy 980 Ti
2) sell G-sync monitor and buy non G-sync 144Hz monitor
3) Wait for Polaris and Pascal
 

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