Rant Used Car Dealer Scam?

Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
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I haven't dealt with a possible scam like this previously, so can you tell me if this is indeed a scam?

Yesterday I saw a car on carfax for $19,999 and texted the dealer.


This morning I got a call back and he said that's "wholesale" price, but actual price is much higher at $24,975 and then taxes and fees on top of that! (sent me a new link)



I expected to negotiate the price down to maybe 18k and then pay sales tax and registration (8.875% and around $300), but can't understand where the $5000 additional came from before even the negotiation.


Can someone give me some guidance on this? Usually I negotiate the price down but this $5000 additional is rubbing me the wrong way. Getting very bad vibes and thinking I should just hold onto to my money rather than get scammed by this dealer.

Thanks in advance!
 
Dec 10, 2005
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Sounds like they're just trying to get more money out of you, at the minimum. Why not just walk away if the deal is crappy or seems off? There are plenty of vehicles out there.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
62,474
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It says right in the second ad “WHOLESALE” and “RETAIL.”

Sounds like this is a company that buys auction cars and resells them, either to the public or to car lots.

Car looks nice, but (IMO) 70K miles is a lot for an Ass-ploder.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,135
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There is a '24 Z06 near me advertised for $158,000 on all the online sites. That's MSRP. I had my doubts and went there. Sure enough, they wanted $25K over that.

Dealers can put any price online to get you in the door.
 
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Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
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There is a '24 Z06 near me advertised for $158,000 on all the online sites. That's MSRP. I had my doubts and went there. Sure enough, they wanted $25K over that.

Dealers can put any price online to get you in the door.

Ahhh so the low price is bait and they're hoping the sucker is willing to pay is caught in the net!

While we are like:

 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
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Private party value is 19.2k.
I just entered the VIN from that website into KBB.com.
Trade in value rages from 15-18k.
They're just trying to start high to get down to 20k.

Scam? I don't know. Remember these are used car salesmen.
 
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Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
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Private party value is 19.2k.
I just entered the VIN from that website into KBB.com.
Trade in value rages from 15-18k.
They're just trying to start high to get down to 20k.

Scam? I don't know. Remember these are used car salesmen.
Yeah always get ripped off a little but this seemed like a major rip off.

I bought a 2012 Explorer w/ 130k miles for 11k in 2019. I was desperate for a vehicle then as my Highlander was turning into a lemon.

Anyways they asked for 12k but I talked them down to 11k.

Still feel I overpaid by 1k at the time, but I've gotten 5 years out of it and it probably runs better than when I bought it. I could probably sell it for 7.5k since it's only upto 135k miles. (so loss of 3.5k over 5 years - not too bad)

I guess as long as you don't get ripped off on the original purchase price, any car could be a deal!
 
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Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
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If you drive something for <5000 miles over 5 years, why even bother buying a newer vehicle?

Probably being anal about the 1 problem it has.. pre-existing rust.

I undercoat it but I know eventually the rust will win.

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Hans Gruber

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 2006
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Probably being anal about the 1 problem it has.. pre-existing rust.

I undercoat it but I know eventually the rust will win.

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I cringe when I see your posts. It's not just snapping off lug nuts. Now you are crawling under an SUV on $20 stands. Mounting those 3 ton stands on uneven pavement. That just is not safe. Whenever you jack up a vehicle, you need to have a backup for multiple points of failure.
 
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repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
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So it’s a rusty POS beater. You live in NYC so what you want is a rusty POS beater that you can drive on those insane roads and not care. Just keep driving it 1000 miles per year and sell it to a junkyard for $500 when it’s truly dead. The rust will eventually win but that’s okay. It will win against a newer car too.
 

Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
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what you want is a rusty POS beater that you can drive on those insane roads and not care.

Yeah seriously NYC roads with potholes are insane.

Some of these streets haven't been repaired in over 15 years. I put in new strutmounts but still it feels like it doesn't help with the sheer amount of those potholes all over the place!
 

WilliamM2

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2012
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The rust on the hood would annoy me, but it's not going to strand you. Should have touched it up years ago. The underside looks very good for a 13 year old car. I'd keep driving it.

If you are really worried about the circled area, sand it down and re paint it, With a brush. You can't see it.
 
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mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
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I can't tell a lot from the pictures vs being there and poking on it, but all I see is cosmetic rust that may take another decade+ to matter. Clean and paint it if you want, or just get the loose scale off and either way, keep undercoating it.

The hood paint bubbling was a known issue, Ford switched to an aluminum hood and didn't have paint adhesion right until later model years. Rather than trying to touch up just that area, I'd take off at least a couple inches in a horizontal strip and repaint that much, not trying to blend it. Do use self etching aluminum primer.

It's not at all a POS beater. Just keep up with the maintenance and in your area that includes rust.

The dealer wants too much for that '16. If being sold as-is anyway, might as well look for a private sale at closer to $18K. Besides, it might be just as rusty underneath.

As far as potholes, you might look for one with the 18" wheels instead of 20". The extra tire sidewall height helps. Tires with aramid/kevlar sidewall reinforcement do too.
 
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Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
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I can't tell a lot from the pictures vs being there and poking on it, but all I see is cosmetic rust that may take another decade+ to matter. Clean and paint it if you want, or just get the loose scale off and either way, keep undercoating it.

The hood paint bubbling was a known issue, Ford switched to an aluminum hood and didn't have paint adhesion right until later model years. Rather than trying to touch up just that area, I'd take off at least a couple inches in a horizontal strip and repaint that much, not trying to blend it. Do use self etching aluminum primer.

It's not at all a POS beater. Just keep up with the maintenance and in your area that includes rust.

The dealer wants too much for that '16. If being sold as-is anyway, might as well look for a private sale at closer to $18K. Besides, it might be just as rusty underneath.

As far as potholes, you might look for one with the 18" wheels instead of 20". The extra tire sidewall height helps. Tires with aramid/kevlar sidewall reinforcement do too.

I forgot a bit of the other rust spots.. the trunk is the worst.
 
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Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
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20240207_161603.jpg20240207_161633.jpg

The trunk in the 2nd photo is the worst but it's not structural.. I don't think!
 
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mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
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I can't even tell what I'm looking at from that pic /angle. Is it a common color? If so you might find a liftgate at a junkyard.

If this is due to water that leaked in some seal that is higher up on the liftgate, seems like I read about that issue before as well and it often contributed (if not caused) something... either camera malfunction or lock/latch or something. The fix is take the interior trim panel off and seal up where the water is getting in, even better if you can pull the seal grommet out if leaking there, lather up some sensor safe RTV around the sealing area, then put it back in.

Any way you want to look at it, the key to that is stop it from growing, keep water out, remove loose rust, bondo if needed but be sure to use something fiberglass filled since this is an area subject to impact stress when closing it. I may be wrong, again a pic isn't as good as poking at it. :)

One nice thing about painting the inward facing surface of the liftgate is that you don't have to worry too much about trying to get an exact match.
 
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Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
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I can't even tell what I'm looking at from that pic /angle. Is it a common color? If so you might find a liftgate at a junkyard.

Silver colored and yeah the rear liftgate has the worst.

It hasn't gotten any worse recently but it just bugs me.