Used Car - concept of placing a value on # of miles on a used car...need opinions

[leeland]

Hi all,

I have been looking for a new "used" vehicle...

Found a vehicle and got into a little bit of a pissing match with a car dealer about their tactics and also their logic.

So semi-cliffs...

They take in a truck...list it on their site for x amount. I call...confirm the price.
Get there and they say sheepishly that it was priced incorrect and that it is 3 thousand more but they would give me the price on the phone but NO LOWER (ie cutting out any haggling).
Results in no sale as a result because the deal isn't so hot anymore.
Progresses to today where I find an exact match minus color with 20 thousand more miles (25 vs 45k) for 1500 less. Contact the dealer and talk about the comparison.

The guy equated each mile to .55 cents per mile which is an additional 5 grand difference in price so it was an invalid comparison.


My question is it accurate to use that type of accounting formula when calculating the depreciation price of two identical vehicles or would you think the dollar amount per mileage would be lower?

Hope I have this described correctly.

 

[peteyo]

Unfortunately there is no such calculation that normal dealers use. They either go off whole sale pricing or black or grey book values. Trucks dont depreciate very quickly. The cost can stay $25k from 30 thousand miles to 80 thousand miles on them. The initial drop in value is once the car leaves the lot, then around 50-60k for a car and later for a truck.

I feel for your frustration, dealing with car salesmen is terrible. The online price, no one gets that price, or very rarely.

 

[peteyo]

And actually the online cars are quite often not even at the dealer. Degenerates!

 

[leeland]

I know...I haven't bought a vehicle in about 7-8 years...was a stark reminder of what a fucking pain in the ass it is to deal with those guys...haggling over prices.

On one side I have to give them props on being very savvy...on the other hand I fucking hate all the dicking around you have to go through to get the price you want.


Thanks for the reply.

 

[lxskllr]

They need a certain profit, and it's hard to say with used. They buy at auction, and sell for what they need. It's not like new where the price is fairly fixed from the factory. That said, car dealers are usually full of shit. You just have to pick carefully, at a price you want to pay. Private sales are usually the best deal, but you have to be patient, and know a bit about mechanics, or take someone who does.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

And actually the online cars are quite often not even at the dealer. Degenerates!

You've had some bad experiences.

When I bought my car, I found it on the dealer's website - it was already priced less than KBB's "retail" price by a couple grand. (Salesman said it had been on the lot for a while and they wanted it gone.) The KBB "dealer" price on my car now is what I paid for it almost three years ago.

I went in, test drove it, it seemed fine. The price on the internet was correct, they gave me the Carfax right there, and they gave me $200 off (without me even asking) because I found it online. Took it to my mechanic (we have a 30-day lemon law return window) and it passed his inspection too.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

OP - $.55/mile is bullshit. If I screw around with the mileage on KBB, it's usually about $0.10/mile difference.

 

[leeland]

OP - $.55/mile is bullshit. If I screw around with the mileage on KBB, it's usually about $0.10/mile difference.

That was the logic I was angling at but in the end it doesn't really matter because like others have noted they will do what they feel they need to do.

 

[EliteRetard]

Hi all,

I have been looking for a new "used" vehicle...

Found a vehicle and got into a little bit of a pissing match with a car dealer about their tactics and also their logic.

So semi-cliffs...

They take in a truck...list it on their site for x amount. I call...confirm the price.
Get there and they say sheepishly that it was priced incorrect and that it is 3 thousand more but they would give me the price on the phone but NO LOWER (ie cutting out any haggling).
Results in no sale as a result because the deal isn't so hot anymore.
Progresses to today where I find an exact match minus color with 20 thousand more miles (25 vs 45k) for 1500 less. Contact the dealer and talk about the comparison.

The guy equated each mile to .55 cents per mile which is an additional 5 grand difference in price so it was an invalid comparison.


My question is it accurate to use that type of accounting formula when calculating the depreciation price of two identical vehicles or would you think the dollar amount per mileage would be lower?

Hope I have this described correctly.

So if it's 55 cents per mile is the 25k mile truck $13,750 less than new (or one <5k miles)?
If not then tell him his price is exaggerated by his own measure.

You can play the same games they do...do you have the skill to win?

 

[olds]

$.55 cents a mile is what the IRS allows (it may actually be $.565) a person to be compensated for mileage before it is taxed. At least that's what my employer says and that's what they compensate us.

 

[rommelrommel]

It's all bullshit in the end, if you offered X amount and they let you walk away you're not going to convince them via any reasoning like this. Some dealers would rather let a vehicle sit for 6 months, some would rather move volume.

 

[Sluggo]

$.55 cents a mile is what the IRS allows (it may actually be $.565) a person to be compensated for mileage before it is taxed. At least that's what my employer says and that's what they compensate us.

Yep, guy just pulled IRS mileage figures out of his ass, and will tell you govt. knows best.

 

[peteyo]

No I work in the auto business, see that BS all the time. I have seen people drive from out of state and the dealer doesnt even have the car. They dont care, in their little minds its about getting the customer in and then proceed to sell something that the customer didnt even want. And depending on the used vehicle they are usually marked up around 3k, but like i said really depends on the car and demographics and stuff.
But with that said, you can get deal. Especially if a car has been on the lot for awhile. That just costs money. I forget the rule of thumb, but about 90days they are itching to get out of most cars.
Example, this one dealer had a 2011 Porsche turbo, into it 130k. After 6 months, they could not sell it and get their money back. Lucky to sell it for 120k 6months later. And that car tied up 130k worth of other cars that could be selling. Someone got ripping deal when they sold it.

You've had some bad experiences.

When I bought my car, I found it on the dealer's website - it was already priced less than KBB's "retail" price by a couple grand. (Salesman said it had been on the lot for a while and they wanted it gone.) The KBB "dealer" price on my car now is what I paid for it almost three years ago.

I went in, test drove it, it seemed fine. The price on the internet was correct, they gave me the Carfax right there, and they gave me $200 off (without me even asking) because I found it online. Took it to my mechanic (we have a 30-day lemon law return window) and it passed his inspection too.

 

[leeland]

Yep, guy just pulled IRS mileage figures out of his ass, and will tell you govt. knows best.

Well for grins I went on kbb, edmunds and napa and did an apples for apples compare against each site with the same layout just different mileage.

The result on the average was 1600 dollars.


I sent that off to the guy...just to argue. I know they won't budge on the price but it is nice to say back to him .

I will be interested if he replies!

 

[Doppel]

Anybody using IRS mileage rates on the depreciation of a car is either incredibly ignorant or trying to violate you. Also, the "Oops, we priced it wrong!" is such a fucking LIE. A dealer pulled this on me back in the day when I was young and dumb and I fell for it and never want anybody else to fall for it again.

I wouldn't spend much time arguing with this guy. Succinctly tell him what you'll pay for the truck, make sure he has your info, and then leave it at that and keep looking elsewhere. Car salesman really are, on the whole, terrible people, so you need to keep them at a distance. There are some exceptions.

 

[cherrytwist]

I used Consumers Reports and Edmunds to price my car and get the Carfax so you know what you will pay going in and don't move away from that price.

 

[jaqie]

Miles mean nothing compared to how the vehicle was taken care of. I would take a 200k mile car which I can tell was serviced on time every time correctly over a 20k mile car that they didn't even know needed maint any day of the year.

We have a $900 (paid in cash with receipt from major dealer) 1991 ford probe with (just turned over) 175k on it, and I trust this car more than a 6 month old car owned by a moron. This car was well taken care of and has proper maint records, and still runs like new, minus a few age related things we are working on getting fixed. (new shifter bushings needed, clutch cylinder needs replaced as it drips a little).

 

[EliteRetard]

'Corse there's not a whole lot of maintenance you need on a 20k mile car...when synthetic oil can safely run 10k miles I can't imagine any serious harm coming to it. Unless it was a Toyota or something, I have heard of oil gelling in the engine. But it's under warranty right?

 

[jaqie]

'Corse there's not a whole lot of maintenance you need on a 20k mile car...when synthetic oil can safely run 10k miles I can't imagine any serious harm coming to it. Unless it was a Toyota or something, I have heard of oil gelling in the engine. But it's under warranty right?

....
seriously?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH3PJfYi_gs
warning: language. and moron.

would you REALLY buy a car that was treated like the one above, then repaired, over one that was treated well and maintained properly?

 

[Tweak155]

I just go in prepared to walk. When they ask what you want for your trade go at least $1k over.

I still get bent over, but it's about half as bad

Just bought 2 vehicles in the last week. A 2003 Expedition EB w/4wd with 118k miles for $9k (damn near mint condition given the age) and a 2008 Grand Prix that was originally marked at $12.9k and I got it for $10k. They offered $10.5k on my trade in, when I said no way they upped to $11.2k and I said that still wont cut it but we're closer... then they gave me $11.5k (I wanted $12k in my mind so this was close enough). So in the end I walked away with money in my pocket, but I definitely gave them a more valuable car. I don't mind them making some money, they need to in order to stay in business and they take away any liability from me when I go to sell it.

 

[EliteRetard]

....
seriously?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH3PJfYi_gs
warning: language. and moron.

would you REALLY buy a car that was treated like the one above, then repaired, over one that was treated well and maintained properly?

No, but that's a beat to shit car with 140+ thousand miles.

You said new car with 20k vs an old one with 200k.

Even if it were maintained very well age causes issues (I have lots of old cars).
While a "poorly" maintained new car with 20K should still be in good shape.

Now if they went out and did donuts in it all day and tried jumping ramps and shit, if they beat it to hell that hard its fairly obvious...in which case I wouldn't buy it.

In all my years I have only got a lemon once and all my cars were under $5k after taxes fees. The one lemon was a Focus I bought that I KNEW had issues with the intent to fix it up enough to get where I was going. The only slight gotcha was that that particular year was completely erased from history so it was damn near impossible to get parts for and cost way more to fix than I thought. In the end it cost me as much as a rental would have, which I was trying to avoid, but it was a wagon which I needed and I was able to beat the shit out of it as I drove it high speed off road and stuff (cant do that with a rental). So I still got my moneys worth out of it. Ran it so hard I had a spark plug literally come out of the engine and I kept running it for another hundred miles or more. Couldn't get shit for it so I had fun running it to the ground and sold it for scrap.

I take very good care of my other cars though. I had an LHS with 185k miles that was very good. No wear inside (still the original like new floor mats) and still shiny original paint. The only minor flaw was the clear coat starting to bubble on the corner of the trunk (always put your hand there to close it). Ran so well you couldn't hear it idle standing next to it. Unfortunately I was forced to sell it (3 cars and a truck and no job and no home). Damn fine car and somebody got a stupid insane good deal.

My main is an old Mercury Cougar with ~50k miles on it now, it's pretty much inferior to the LHS in every way. I keep kicking myself for that...this thing is still like new but its just not as nice of a car. Less power less gas mileage way less features and its not as comfortable. But with the miles I drive now this thing should last me another 30-40 years.

Still got my '73 F250 Ranger as well. Its also got like 50k miles and a tuned up 390. I use it when I need a truck...and its a damn good truck. I can probably tow a house with it, nothing seems to slow it down. Paints not so good (very dull), but no body issues or rust. Interior is still original and good. Window/door gaskets probably need to be changed.

I'm just now thinking to myself..."What the hell am I rambling on about?". I have no idea what's going on right now or how I ended up yabbering about old cars and shit. I'm just gonna stop and hit post now.

 

[kitatech]

When comparing comparable used cars I figure 10¢/mile ($1000/10,000 miles) and $1000 per year as well once the car is 5+yrs old....that's a very rough guideline of course, and so much more depends on the quality, BUT I did say "comparable" cars.

Another variable to be considered is whether a major repair (costing >$500) is known to be imminent, or was done recently....whether new tires, rack/pinion box, drive belt, or as in the case of my "new" Camry, a new clutch (+master/slave cylinders) installed by the dealer at time of sale that I felt conservatively added $500 (1/3 of the cost of the repair) to the car's value.