USA Offers Iran Nuke Tech in Return for Uranium Halt

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Genx87
Political cat and mouse. This is obviously to demostrate the intent of the program. They have turned down Russian offers to do this as well.

We provide the fuel, what need is there to enrich?

their right to do so.

I dont believe anybody has a "right" to make bomb grade uranium.

Except the United States and Israel, of course!

aint reality a bitch? why is it such a foreign concept to most of you that YES, ONLY OUR ALLIES AND FRIENDS CAN HAVE NUKES! gee...what a concept! Some of you seem to have forgotten for a moment what it means to be on OUR side.

this isnt a pie where everyone gets an even slice. it is 100% acceptable to me that WE are the ones with the bigger piece of the pie, and that WE are the ones with the bigger bombs. In fact, I sleep MUCH better at night knowing that is true...for now!

Why do some of you act as though every side has the "right" to play with the same toys? "It's just not fairrrrr, your team has bigger players than theirs!" YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT WE DO! That's what keeps us on top, and that is what ensures our victory in every game. Allowing the other side time to find bigger players is just plain dumb.

Now, and always, I want MY side to win the f'n game! If that means keeping the enemy teams from gwtting the better toys and bigger players, then so f'n be it! If they dont like it, they are 100% welcome to come on over to OUR side!

i mean, duh.

 

[magomago]

I think your problem is you want to see the Iranians as enemies.

The situation amounts to Iran wanting to establish itself as a power on atleast a regional scale, and the US does not want that. That doesn't mean they are our enemies; we obviously have a conflict of interest, but maybe then again we should let the region govern itself rather than repeatedly fck up their affairs.

then again many people say China is our enemy and look what we do to them...

 

[Nyati13]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Genx87
Political cat and mouse. This is obviously to demostrate the intent of the program. They have turned down Russian offers to do this as well.

We provide the fuel, what need is there to enrich?

their right to do so.

I dont believe anybody has a "right" to make bomb grade uranium.

Well, apparently the USA does.

How would you feel if the UN told the USA to stop enriching uranium, or else?

And what if they did? The US doesnt have a "right" to make bomb grade material either. They have earned the priviledge to do so.

Earned the priviledge, by doing what? Being the only nation in the world to actually use nuclear weapons on someone else? That's your "moral highground"?

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I want MY side to win the f'n game!

Calm down counterstrike boy.

It is not a game nor are we the ones on the wrong side, we ARE on the side of america which is why people are sick of idiots like you acting like a fool cowboy getting us into such big messes, you are wrong, all you warmongering twits have been wrong for years and you need to go back to playing video games it seems, the real world is a bit out of your realm.

Screw america uber alles superpower crap, I just want to live in a repected, humble member of the world community with a huge space program or something, that dictator stuff is not america. Take that sh1t somewhere else and go start a new reich or something.

Geez, doesent our tax money pay for penis enlargements when you all have these issues that make you spout that crap like you do, we should, and you should be first in line.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: libs0n
Just like they "agreed" to give North Korea some light water reactors back in 94? Hmmm, I wonder what ever happened with that...

What happened with N Korea? N Korea broke the agreement is what happened.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I want MY side to win the f'n game!

Calm down counterstrike boy.

It is not a game nor are we the ones on the wrong side, we ARE on the side of america which is why people are sick of idiots like you acting like a fool cowboy getting us into such big messes, you are wrong, all you warmongering twits have been wrong for years and you need to go back to playing video games it seems, the real world is a bit out of your realm.

Screw america uber alles superpower crap, I just want to live in a repected, humble member of the world community with a huge space program or something, that dictator stuff is not america. Take that sh1t somewhere else and go start a new reich or something.

Geez, doesent our tax money pay for penis enlargements when you all have these issues that make you spout that crap like you do, we should, and you should be first in line.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Remember, YEEEE-HAW! isn't foreign policy.

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
...what it means to be on OUR side.

...ensures our victory in every game.

Now, and always, I want MY side to win the f'n game!

...100% welcome to come on over to OUR side!

The child-like simplicity of such thought processes is rather disconcerting considering this is someone who will, allegedly, be evaluating and/or participating in future foreign intelligence gathering.

 

[judasmachine]

isn't this what was done with north korea under clinton?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: palehorse74
...what it means to be on OUR side.

...ensures our victory in every game.

Now, and always, I want MY side to win the f'n game!

...100% welcome to come on over to OUR side!

The child-like simplicity of such thought processes is rather disconcerting considering this is someone who will, allegedly, be evaluating and/or participating in future foreign intelligence gathering.

excuse me for trying to analogize the situation down to a level where most people can understand. I am sick and tired of people who feel the need to be "fair" in terms of nuclear armament.

there is a very good reason why the US is still around, and alot of that reason has to do with us not letting our potential and [/i]known[/i] enemies play at our level. If Iran has honestly peaceful intentions, then they have no reason whatsoever to turn down our latest offer of enriched uranium in exchange for peace. (or the Russians' offer of the same for that matter!)

Let's face it, there are ALOT of fanatical loonies in Iran who go to sleep every night dreaming of ways to destroy us....ALOT!

that said, when people say "oh, just let them do what they want.. we're not the boss of them!" it really makes you have to ask "whose side are you on?!"...

The bottom line is that they are atleast a perceived threat, and that is just enough for me to say no f'n way to them ever obtaining big huge nuclear bombs. funk that.

Why take the chance? What will each of you do 10 years from now IF we just let them go forward, and the next thing you know, Israel is nuked off the map? Will you just sit there drinking your lattes saying "woops! that sure sucks! please pass the croissants..."?!?

I'm sorry, but me, and thankfully alot of important people as well, just wont let that happen. In this game of devil's advocate, we're going to err on the side of caution and not give those loonie falkers a chance.

period.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: palehorse74
...what it means to be on OUR side.

...ensures our victory in every game.

Now, and always, I want MY side to win the f'n game!

...100% welcome to come on over to OUR side!

The child-like simplicity of such thought processes is rather disconcerting considering this is someone who will, allegedly, be evaluating and/or participating in future foreign intelligence gathering.

What we see here with palehorse is that the old phrase: "Military Intelligence is a oxymoron" is still in full effect.

 

[fornax]

Originally posted by: Harvey
The operative words are light water. I don't believe it can be used to enrich nuclear materials to weapons grade. It's a good idea in principle, but as with N. Korea, it then gets down to trust and verification.

Light water are operative words, but for entirely different reason. Light water reactors require enriched uranium, so they have nothing to do with the current situation about enrichment. The reason we want to give them (and NK) light-water reactors is that those cannot be used to make plutonium. One of the fission products of heavy-water reactors is plutonium, and it's a much better choice for nuclear weapons. You can get enough plutonium in a very short time even with a single reactor. What do you think our (and the Russians') nuclear-tipped missiles are filled with?

 

[LumbergTech]

call me ignorant, but who is going to pay for this again?

 

[boredhokie]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: palehorse74
...what it means to be on OUR side.

...ensures our victory in every game.

Now, and always, I want MY side to win the f'n game!

...100% welcome to come on over to OUR side!

The child-like simplicity of such thought processes is rather disconcerting considering this is someone who will, allegedly, be evaluating and/or participating in future foreign intelligence gathering.

excuse me for trying to analogize the situation down to a level where most people can understand. I am sick and tired of people who feel the need to be "fair" in terms of nuclear armament.

there is a very good reason why the US is still around, and alot of that reason has to do with us not letting our potential and [/i]known[/i] enemies play at our level. If Iran has honestly peaceful intentions, then they have no reason whatsoever to turn down our latest offer of enriched uranium in exchange for peace. (or the Russians' offer of the same for that matter!)

Let's face it, there are ALOT of fanatical loonies in Iran who go to sleep every night dreaming of ways to destroy us....ALOT!

that said, when people say "oh, just let them do what they want.. we're not the boss of them!" it really makes you have to ask "whose side are you on?!"...

The bottom line is that they are atleast a perceived threat, and that is just enough for me to say no f'n way to them ever obtaining big huge nuclear bombs. funk that.

Why take the chance? What will each of you do 10 years from now IF we just let them go forward, and the next thing you know, Israel is nuked off the map? Will you just sit there drinking your lattes saying "woops! that sure sucks! please pass the croissants..."?!?

I'm sorry, but me, and thankfully alot of important people as well, just wont let that happen. In this game of devil's advocate, we're going to err on the side of caution and not give those loonie falkers a chance.

period.

Wow Palehorse really has his pulse on Iran, he must have some good direct information to know exactly what they all think. He sounds pretty solipsistic though, imagining that everyone over there goes to bed at night thinking about the same thing he does - violence.

Croissants aren't the bastion of America hating liberal cafes btw. I think they even sell them at Wal-Mart, so you can indulge without having to sound so bitter. Overall you sound like another person who's too old to be useful in the military but not educated enough to do much more than screetch on a message board.

I don't pretend to know what ALOT (sic) of Iranians think about while in bed, unlike Palehorse, but I can guess that most of them want to just live their lives in peace. The president there believes that Israel should be in Europe, not Palestine. If you read his interview in Der Spiegel he infers that Israel should have been carved out of Germany instead of Palestine (but you can thank Britain for that).


I think the US is win/win if they give Iran nuclear technology that can't be weaponized in exchange for concessions - it'll even make more jobs for us and build relations. Iran basically has the world by the balls anyways with it's ability to shut down regional oil shipments, they won't be invaded by anyone.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

If Iran has honestly peaceful intentions, then they have no reason whatsoever to turn down our latest offer of enriched uranium in exchange for peace. (or the Russians' offer of the same for that matter!)

I think the question is what is OUR intentions.

The want peaceful technology for sure-- the nuclear bomb will bring them peace because any country will think twice before attacking Iran. I think Iran clearly wants the bomb as a means to DEFEND itself. Aside from the Shah, and his excursion into Iraqi territory, they haven't invaded anyone in a LONG time (Cant say that about ourselves, can we?)

 

[Jhhnn]

Palehorse probably makes his living as a Bushist shill, posting on internet forums all day.

Remember the one about "Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime."?

Bush offers a fish, while the Iranians are already becoming fishermen. Worse, actually- he attempts to force an agenda on the iranians that's not really any sort of negotiation at all, more like an ultimatum falsely represented as something it's not. It's an offer from the Godfather.

Contrary to Bush Admin claims, there is no evidence that the Iranians are doing anything other than what they claim- enriching uranium to a concentration sufficient for use as reactor fuel. There are lots of accusations, however, reminiscent of the pre-invasion situation wrt Iraq. We all know how those turned out.

Despite all the obfuscations and additional demands, the Iranians are also in compliance with the NPT agreement they signed under the Shah, and their declared facilities are under supervision of the IAEA. Additional facilities have not even been alleged. In treaty-speak, they're in compliance with the safeguard protocols, which is what they originally promised to do.

So we're presented with pathological liars and charlatans in the form of the Bush Admin, and people we don't trust in the form of the Iranian regime. The former simply can't be believed because the truth has nothing to do with their agenda, and the latter poses no immediate threat to America, and probably never will, so long as the IAEA supervises their operation.

If anything, hardline Bushist agitprop only strengthens the hand of their more radical iranian counterparts wrt Iranian patriotism, and attempts to force them Iranians out of the NPT and into the status of the DPRK.

This whole flap isn't really about the whole nuclear issue, anyway, but about pushing regime change in Iran and keeping the faithful suitable distracted and agitated on the domestic front... believing in the usual lies...

 

[boredhokie]

PaleHorse, in his encyclopedic knowledge of Iran and its people, must have also forgotten that Iran WAS a non-secular democracy back in the 1950's.

That was until Britain and the CIA decided they wanted Iran's oil and started agitating the religious extremists in Iran by posing as government officials in an attempt to radicalize them into a coup.

The plot, known as Operation Ajax, centered around convincing Iran's monarch to use his constitutional authority to dismiss Mossadegh from office, as he had attempted some months earlier. But the Shah was uncooperative, and it would take much persuasion and many meetings to successfully execute the plan. Meanwhile, the CIA stepped up its operations. According to Dr. Donald N. Wilber, who was involved in the plot to remove Mossadegh from power, in early August, Iranian CIA operatives pretending to be socialists and nationalists threatened Muslim leaders with "savage punishment if they opposed Mossadegh," thereby giving the impression that Mossadegh was cracking down on dissent, and stirring anti-Mossadegh sentiments within the religious community.

Fast forward 50 years and these extremists are now in power. What is the rational action to nullify any alleged threat they pose to us? You think invasion would really do anything?

I think the big picture solution is to hurry up and find a viable alternative to gasoline. The sooner our economy isn't dependent on nutjobs 4,000 miles away that can cause the stock market to crash by simply holding a day's worth of oil from shipping the better.

With our pro-capitalism administration in place, I'm expecting the funding the US needs to get us off our oil addiction coming soon. Right, PaleHorse?

 

[novon]

aint reality a bitch? why is it such a foreign concept to most of you that YES, ONLY OUR ALLIES AND FRIENDS CAN HAVE NUKES! gee...what a concept! Some of you seem to have forgotten for a moment what it means to be on OUR side.

this isnt a pie where everyone gets an even slice. it is 100% acceptable to me that WE are the ones with the bigger piece of the pie, and that WE are the ones with the bigger bombs. In fact, I sleep MUCH better at night knowing that is true...for now!

Why do some of you act as though every side has the "right" to play with the same toys? "It's just not fairrrrr, your team has bigger players than theirs!" YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT WE DO! That's what keeps us on top, and that is what ensures our victory in every game. Allowing the other side time to find bigger players is just plain dumb.

Now, and always, I want MY side to win the f'n game! If that means keeping the enemy teams from gwtting the better toys and bigger players, then so f'n be it! If they dont like it, they are 100% welcome to come on over to OUR side!

i mean, duh.

I get the feeling your world view is based on a video game.

 

[kage69]

I get the feeling your world view is based on a video game.

Then you aren't the only one. Keyboard commando, mall ninja, armchair general...palehorsesh!t has been only too happy to show us he's an idiot for all seasons.
In his demented world, obstinate double-standards and viewing everything through an idealogical lense is perfectly fine for forming effective foreign policy.

Just throw him in the zendari bin...


Ultimately I doubt this will placate the Iranians. Their hidden programs will continue I'm sure, as they're being backed into a corner by an adversary that's publically labeled them as evil, has them surrounded, and has shown itself to not have a problem acting in Israels interests.

Iran was a problem. Thanks to the most pathetic excuse for an American president ever, Iran will be a huge problem for sometime.

 

[piasabird]

I would not give Iran a dime. They are Oil Rich and can buy any technology they want.

 

[boredhokie]

Originally posted by: piasabird
I would not give Iran a dime. They are Oil Rich and can buy any technology they want.

I agree, however I think the agreement will be for American expertise in building nuclear facilities, which is harder to buy.

 

[libs0n]

I was too quick in suggesting that this was an initiative designed to fail, like the Rice letter reply, as that's not how I really feel. I do believe there are elements in the US government who absolutely want to strike Iran and are manipulating events to achieve their goal. Real men go to Tehran, after all. The problem being, if they even realize it, is that Iran holds a very good upper hand at the moment. This proposal would be a win-win either way: if Iran accepts it then the confrontation gets put off until Iran is in a weaker position and America the stronger, and if Iran rejects its just one more stone in the wall of justification for war.

 

[Jhhnn]

"Ultimately I doubt this will placate the Iranians. Their hidden programs will continue I'm sure, as they're being backed into a corner by an adversary that's publically labeled them as evil, has them surrounded, and has shown itself to not have a problem acting in Israels interests."

The only problem I have with the above is the whole "hidden programs" reference- Which is merely Bushist accusation and innuendo. There has been absolutely zero evidence presented to support the claim, and if such existed, I'm sure that the Admin would be screaming it from the rooftops...

Like I said earlier, what reason is there to believe that the current round of accusations is any different than those levelled at the former Iraqi regime? How many times do people have to be chumped before they wake up?

 

[kage69]

The only problem I have with the above is the whole "hidden programs" reference- Which is merely Bushist accusation and innuendo. There has been absolutely zero evidence presented to support the claim, and if such existed, I'm sure that the Admin would be screaming it from the rooftops...

Not that it would do much good in my case, as I no longer trust a word coming from the White House. Before it was made clear that this failure of an admin deliberately manipulated the nation into an unnecessary war, I gave it the benefit of a doubt. No more.
However, that doesn't affect my gut feeling that Iran does have a hidden program which I doubt they would ever truly suspend. The admin, while corrupt and ignorant, knows of the 'boy who cried wolf' effect and is eager to avoid it's PR implications. It's still stinging after the fallout from the last time it 'screamed it from the roof'...

But hey, I hope I'm wrong...the last thing I want is another opportunity for King George to go play sheriff some more.