Usa begins firing tomahawk missiles at Libya

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manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
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You can't answer any of my questions so you're just labeling me as xenophobic and running away. It is the easier way out. The harder thing to do would be actually to have discussions with posters where you don't make unfair and partisan assumptions. Caio coward. Have fun attacking all those strawmen.

you misspelled ciao lol
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
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you misspelled ciao lol

I made a typo and transposed i with a. I admit it. Is being a spelling Nazi all you have? Do you want to admit you falsely assumed that I was against this attack? And that you were just spouting nonsense earlier in the thread with a question addressed to nobody?
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
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I never singled you out in my first post in this thread. I asked a devils advocate question and you jumped in like a fat kid in a pool of pudding...
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
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I never singled you out in my first post in this thread. I asked a devils advocate question and you jumped in like a fat kid in a pool of pudding...

I don't think you understand what being a "devil's advocate" means. I simply asked who you were addressing the question to because I've noticed the habit you have of attacking strawmen. Then you jumped all over me like the rabid partisan hack you are and started making assumptions. When I pointed out you were making idiotic assumptions, you labeled me as xenophobic so that you could run away after the fact. (Notice you didn't start lowering yourself to that level until I had called you out on your bullshit). Why not not show some dignity, admit you were being silly, and try not to do it in the future?
 
Sep 12, 2004
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The US needs to stay the f*ck out of other countries business in the middle east. If the people of Libya truly want to overthrow their government then it will happen, just as it did in Egypt. The fact that it hasn't happened yet in Libya just means that Khadafi still has plenty of supporters. So who are we to say which side is right, Khadafi's side or the opposition. He has a right to defend his government and the people that support him. Of course the media will portray any aggression on his part as "butchering his people", while the opposition are painted as freedom fighters. Yeah, whatever. Is it our place now to decide who gets to govern any country in the world?
No problem here then. Libya is not in the ME.
 

Kaieye

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,275
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The leaders in North Korea are starving/killing many of their citizens. Should we send some of these Tomahawk missles toward them? What is the difference?

We should stay out and stop being the world's policeman.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
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The US needs to stay the f*ck out of other countries business in the middle east. If the people of Libya truly want to overthrow their government then it will happen, just as it did in Egypt. The fact that it hasn't happened yet in Libya just means that Khadafi still has plenty of supporters. So who are we to say which side is right, Khadafi's side or the opposition. He has a right to defend his government and the people that support him. Of course the media will portray any aggression on his part as "butchering his people", while the opposition are painted as freedom fighters. Yeah, whatever. Is it our place now to decide who gets to govern any country in the world?

So, you would have been, and are, a Tory, right?
 
Sep 12, 2004
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The leaders in North Korea are starving/killing many of their citizens. Should we send some of these Tomahawk missles toward them? What is the difference?

We should stay out and stop being the world's policeman.
The difference is that Libya's people are currently actively rebelling; NK's are not.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
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Libya and the Left's Sickening Hypocrisy on the Use of Military Force


An excerpt from the article:

[FONT=times new roman,times]
[FONT=times new roman,times]In the 1996 presidential campaign, Republican candidate Bob Dole raised some hackles when he said that the majority of American lives lost in combat in the 20th century had been lost in "Democrat wars." Well, Dole was right. Democrat Woodrow Wilson sent American forces to Europe in 1917 not for concrete American interests but for the hazy notion of making the world "safe for democracy." 100,000 were killed. Germany became democratic, all right, and in 1932 the Nazi Party won enough seats in the Reichstag to get Adolf Hitler appointed Chancellor. [/FONT]


[FONT=times new roman,times]When World War II broke out in Europe, Americans wanted neutrality. Democrat Franklin Roosevelt wanted involvement, but public opinion would not allow him to send troops when the British were being bombarded by the Luftwaffe in 1940. When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, Congress rightly declared war on them; but commander-in-chief Roosevelt committed American forces first to North Africa, then to Italy, then to Germany. Japan, the only Axis power to actually attack the U.S., was defeated last. 400,000 Americans were killed.[/FONT]


[FONT=times new roman,times]Democrat Harry Truman sent American forces to defend South Korea after communist North Korea invaded in 1950. The communists believed they had a green light to attack when Truman's Secretary of State Dean Acheson failed to include South Korea in America's defense "perimeter." Truman refused to use nuclear weapons to save American lives. End result: 50,000 American dead for a stalemate. Sixty years later, communist North Korea is still there, and now it has nuclear weapons.[/FONT]


[FONT=times new roman,times]Democrat John Kennedy began American involvement in Vietnam, and Democrat Lyndon Johnson escalated the war, sending 500,000 American troops. End result: 58,000 American dead, and a humiliating withdrawal. When Republican Richard Nixon was elected in 1968, he promised to end American involvement in Vietnam; yet he and his National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger are regarded as "war criminals" by the Left.[/FONT]


[FONT=times new roman,times]Democrat Bill Clinton sent American warplanes to bomb Serbia, which never attacked us; and on Dec. 16, 1998 (which just happened to be the night before he was to be impeached) Clinton ordered four days of bombing missions against Iraq. Did anyone call him "Hitler" or a "war criminal"?[/FONT]
[/FONT]
 
May 11, 2008
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Although i despise the use of weapons(i accept it is sometimes necessary to use force), from a technological point of view(strictly academic) it sure is amazing what these cruise missiles are capable of...


2011-03-20T044919Z_2035051432_GM1E73K0ZRO01_RTRMADG_3_LIBYA-COALITION-MISSILES-C.jpg
 
May 11, 2008
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I learn every day something new...
I never new Gaddafi wrote a book ?
He has some green book about how the world should be ruled ?

Is this true what is written here ?

http://middleeast.about.com/od/libya/a/me090906.htm

On the other hand, it can sometimes read like rewrites of Rousseau: “All methods of education prevailing in the world should be destroyed through a universal cultural revolution that frees the human mind from curricula of fanaticism which dictate a process of deliberate distortion of man's tastes, conceptual ability and mentality.”

Either way, scholars, political theorists and politicians have had to take the Green Book seriously, if only because it remains Qaddafi’s guiding principles.

If true, this is then exactly what i am talking about. Gaddafi does not want people to become enlightened. By reading what is written here, i see that Gaddafi wanted to keep the people in the dark as to ensure his position as ruler.
 
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Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
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Although i despise the use of weapons(i accept it is sometimes necessary to use force), from a technological point of view(strictly academic) it sure is amazing what these cruise missiles are capable of...


2011-03-20T044919Z_2035051432_GM1E73K0ZRO01_RTRMADG_3_LIBYA-COALITION-MISSILES-C.jpg
I was more surprised reading that apparently some of these lack GPS and are pre-GPS technology. Moreover, my assumption that all could be programmed mid-flight is applicable to only newer ones. It seems that some of the older ones are fire and forget and cannot be recalled after launch. Do they really still have GPS-incapable cruise missiles in play and how are they so accurate?

US has 3500 cruise missiles per wiki with an average value of 3/4M. The 112 launched yesterday is among their more prolific use.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
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I didn't realize just how many times the West has already attacked Libya after actions Gadhafi had taken. This has been a long, long time coming. There were more events than just Lockerbie.
I'm thinking you didn't read the second paragraph...:)
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
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Do they really still have GPS-incapable cruise missiles in play and how are they so accurate?

It is the software. If you know the speed of the missile and the target distance you can plot the course before launch , upload that to the on board memory and launch. The missile can then make course corrections based on time and distance. The reason some of these cannot change programming once launched is that the parts used to store the path data is OTP or one time programmable. Missiles have to use radiation hardened parts and at the time there wasn't EEPROM with enough capacity that fit that criteria.

The guidance control is a gyroscopic device, you can even buy one similar to the tomahawks here for $16.95 , a discount of about $11k :)
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G17270
http://www.etotheipiplusone.net/?p=428
 
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May 11, 2008
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It is the software. If you know the speed of the missile and the target distance you can plot the course before launch , upload that to the on board memory and launch. The missile can then make course corrections based on time and distance. The reason some of these cannot change programming once launched is that the parts used to store the path data is OTP or one time programmable. Missiles have to use radiation hardened parts and at the time there wasn't EEPROM with enough capacity that fit that criteria.

The guidance control is a gyroscopic device, you can even buy one similar to the tomahawks here for $16.95 , a discount of about $11k :)
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G17270
http://www.etotheipiplusone.net/?p=428


It would be fun to play with one...

The scope on the picture :

I have almost the same model at home. ^_^ I have the 465 and i do not have the top section.

gyro_5-mid.jpg


I am the proud owner of this model :

Tektronix_465_Oscilloscope.jpg
 
May 11, 2008
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I have the 465 as well but I have the top section too and the cart it goes on. Really good scope for its age.

Indeed. It is one of the few analog scopes that can actually zoom in on a signal completely analog by using 2 times bases. This scope has almost the same features as a digital scope but without the inevitable noise from the ADC and mathematics with finite numbers. I am still amazed that it is able to zoom that much.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscilloscope#Delayed_sweeps

These are found on more-sophisticated oscilloscopes, which contain a second set of timebase circuits for a delayed sweep. A delayed sweep provides a very-detailed look at some small selected portion of the main timebase. The main timebase serves as a controllable delay, after which the delayed timebase starts. This can start when the delay expires, or can be triggered (only) after the delay expires. Ordinarily, the delayed timebase is set for a faster sweep, sometimes much faster, such as 1000:1. At extreme ratios, jitter in the delays on consecutive main sweeps degrades the display, but delayed-sweep triggers can overcome that.

The display shows the vertical signal in one of several modes—the main timebase, or the delayed timebase only, or a combination. When the delayed sweep is active, the main sweep trace brightens while the delayed sweep is advancing. In one combination mode, provided only on some oscilloscopes, the trace changes from the main sweep to the delayed sweep once the delayed sweep starts, although less of the delayed fast sweep is visible for longer delays. Another combination mode multiplexes (alternates) the main and delayed sweeps so that both appear at once; a trace separation control displaces them.
 
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ConstipatedVigilante

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2006
7,670
1
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WTF are you talking about? Is Taiwan US soil? Do the citizens of Taiwan pay US taxes? NO. Who cares if they get invaded? You talk about ramifications, there are no fucking ramifications. Until China sends planes attacking motherfucking pearl harbor, we shouldn't be firing tomahawk missiles at anyone.
The U.S. actually has a pretty big stake in Taiwan. It represents a possibility for Chinese democracy.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
I asked my question first lol


dont forget to blame the muslims..its your MO...

This should come as a surprise to no one posting here.

Even less surprising is the reaction of some of the Bush fanboys who would have been having the most ferocious circle jerk ever had Bush ordered the missiles.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86

Libya and the Left's Sickening Hypocrisy on the Use of Military Force


An excerpt from the article:

[FONT=times new roman,times][/FONT]

What a ridiculous piece full of slanted viewpoints and innuendo that completely ignore historical fact.

Why blame Wilson for the raise in Nazism post-WWI?

Why ignore strategical needs in WW2, including rolling back the Nazis are the periphery and weakening their stance before trying to invade the continent? Why ignore the fact that the Pacific side wasn't ignored but was a singular fight that required time and effort completely unlike a continental land conflict?

Why imply that nukes should have been used in NK and the current thoughts against the spread of communism at the time?

The only one that might have a shred of merit is Vietnam.

However the author conveniently ignores our actions in Panama, Libya, Kuwait/Saudi, and the utter fuckup of Afghanistan and the epic fail of Iraq. But hey, if you're going to be slanted, be slanted to the maximum!
 
May 11, 2008
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However the author conveniently ignores our actions in Panama, Libya, Kuwait/Saudi, and the utter fuckup of Afghanistan and the epic fail of Iraq. But hey, if you're going to be slanted, be slanted to the maximum!

I myself find Afghanistan very confusing. Instead of investing full force in a modern democracy there with the help of Russia. People are left to rot.

For examples, some half form of education to create an police force which seems to become more corrupt each day.
The continued allowing of afghan farmers growing poppy( for Opium, Morphine and heroine). The heroine is like an infestation in Russia.
Even Iran is fighting hard against opium smuggle at their borders.
For some reason i would expect more action and cooperation.
What is the deal with Afghanistan ? For as far as i can remember, the taliban was rising in strength again. I assume the passive attitude towards Afghanistan has something to do with the political environment in Pakistan but i am just guessing here. Does any body have more up to date information ?