US: Working age people - losing ground.

[fskimospy]

I agree, that's passed on to those who are covered. But the ones who are provided the service generally think it should be free. Its only free depending on your perspective, as you pointed out.

So we have a free rider problem. What do you suggest we do to fix it? If you are in an emergency but are unable to pay for it, do we allow you to die?

 

[xBiffx]

So we have a free rider problem. What do you suggest we do to fix it? If you are in an emergency but are unable to pay for it, do we allow you to die?

Absolutely not. If I go into an emergency room, I will leave with a bill. Eventually I will have to pay that bill or be sent to collections. Point is, eventually the money will be paid. I think the same should apply for people with lower income and this goes back to my earlier post. If you have leftover, after all the stupid shit, eventually you can pay for some, if not all of that bill. If you have nothing left over, then we will end up having to pay it. Problem here is that we end up footing the bill more often than not when, eventually, the freeloader could pay for a portion or all of that.

P.S. I started another thread that is more on this subject so we don't derail this one any further.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Absolutely not. If I go into an emergency room, I will leave with a bill. Eventually I will have to pay that bill or be sent to collections. Point is, eventually the money will be paid. I think the same should apply for people with lower income and this goes back to my earlier post. If you have leftover, after all the stupid shit, eventually you can pay for some, if not all of that bill. If you have nothing left over, then we will end up having to pay it. Problem here is that we end up footing the bill more often than not when, eventually, the freeloader could pay for a portion or all of that.

P.S. I started another thread that is more on this subject so we don't derail this one any further.

You think sending something to collections guarantees payment? That's kind of the point. It doesn't get paid. At least not by the people who incur the cost.

 

[xBiffx]

You think sending something to collections guarantees payment? That's kind of the point. It doesn't get paid. At least not by the people who incur the cost.

Really? Seems like everyone I know that has had dealing with collections usually has it end up paying what's owed.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Really? Seems like everyone I know that has had dealing with collections usually has it end up paying what's owed.

That's probably because they were more responsible. That's far from the norm. Collections typically resolves for less than the original cost incurred for starters and beyond that it's not uncommon for no payments at all to be received.

 

[senseamp]

Really? Seems like everyone I know that has had dealing with collections usually has it end up paying what's owed.

Even if true, it's meaningless anecdotal evidence.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washin...aid-hospital-bills_n.htm?loc=interstitialskip

 

[highland145]

Really? Seems like everyone I know that has had dealing with collections usually has it end up paying what's owed.

That's probably because they were more responsible. That's far from the norm. Collections typically resolves for less than the original cost incurred for starters and beyond that it's not uncommon for no payments at all to be received.

This. It's very rare that I pull a credit report that doesn't have unpaid medical collections. No garnishment in S.C.

 

[rudder]

Trickle down and out economics for ya. Money is given to the top, supposedly to trickle down, but instead just leaves the country. Middle class shrinks, top few percent grow even more rich than ever before.

Politics, both republicans and democrats bought and paid for by your local corporation. Just another reason I'm surprised all of the republican ditto heads kept saying "reagan reagan reagan taxes taxes taxes" at the debate. We're already deep in debt and they want to cut taxes even more for the rich? Really?

50% of all private sector jobs come from small firms. reduce taxes and burdensome regulations and allow these companies to grow... then they will create jobs.

Imagine if those large corporations failed. These smaller firms would then grow... of course the larger firms are able to purchase the required senators and congressmen to get the money they need to continue raping everyone. and if they did fail they would probably put their congressmen on the market for buy one get one free type of deal and the smaller firms would snag them.

 

[Infohawk]

It seems we have an undesirable choice between protectionism, which makes local markets uncompetitive, and free trade, which hurts local markets.

We don't have to stop all free trade, just limit free trade with countries that have a significantly lower standard of living and are driving wages down.

 

[IGBT]

I agree, that's passed on to those who are covered. But the ones who are provided the service generally think it should be free. Its only free depending on your perspective, as you pointed out.

most of the ER parasites shouldn't be here to begin with. They slithered across the border in the dead of night. The free ER is the tip of the ice burg on services they leach off the tax payers.

 

[halik]

Because the money should go to bailing out shithead investment firms instead - all $800 billion of it. I mean, why give that amout of money to people actually willing to create jobs?

Oh, excuse me, I forgot my place, sir; I am not worthy of the tax dollars I've been pouring into this country's government since the age of 16. I should have saved the hundreds of thousands of dollars needed to start a business all on my own - in addition to the taxes I've been paying, living expenses, health insurance, retirement, etc. I mean, if I can't do ALL of that and still have more than enough cash to start my own business, I am clearly living beyond my means.

Typical swine fingermen mentality; you can tell me what I should be doing with my money and life, but when the people who you lick their bottoms clean are questioned; I have no right and say in it.

Ha yes, federal income tax is what prevented you from being rich and successful.

 

[halik]

Absolutely not. If I go into an emergency room, I will leave with a bill. Eventually I will have to pay that bill or be sent to collections. Point is, eventually the money will be paid. I think the same should apply for people with lower income and this goes back to my earlier post. If you have leftover, after all the stupid shit, eventually you can pay for some, if not all of that bill. If you have nothing left over, then we will end up having to pay it. Problem here is that we end up footing the bill more often than not when, eventually, the freeloader could pay for a portion or all of that.

P.S. I started another thread that is more on this subject so we don't derail this one any further.

Go to a ferrari dealership with that premise and see if you end up walking out with a car. It's the same when you show up in the ER with $500K worth of trauma.

 

[Craig234]

So anything cheaper than healthcare is not a waste? And if you add up all the waste on the crap he mentioned I am pretty sure you could have purchased your own healthcare.

One month of decent healthcare at Kaiser Permanente in Northern CA runs over $800 for an example case (they have a plan for over $600 with worse benefits).

This is only available for 'continuing' members, so let's say you are.

Could you buy everything in his list for one month's premium? Pretty much. That leaves 11 more months in the year.

 

[Craig234]

Trickle down and out economics for ya. Money is given to the top, supposedly to trickle down, but instead just leaves the country. Middle class shrinks, top few percent grow even more rich than ever before.

Politics, both republicans and democrats bought and paid for by your local corporation. Just another reason I'm surprised all of the republican ditto heads kept saying "reagan reagan reagan taxes taxes taxes" at the debate. We're already deep in debt and they want to cut taxes even more for the rich? Really?

It's like a bad sports team. It's called 'identity politics'. They get people to 'identify' as a 'conservative' or whatever, and they just blindly fight for the team.

By getting people to 'hate the other side', they don't really look at the rational issue of whether their own side is right or not. They just want to win elections.

It reminds me of the pre-1960's culture on Cowboy and Indian movies. Cowboys good guys, Indians bad guys, Cowboys shoot Inidians yay we win.

Not really any rational question about the actual history, concern of genocide, slaughtering and burning women and children. We win, yay.

 

[momeNt]

It's like a bad sports team. It's called 'identity politics'. They get people to 'identify' as a 'conservative' or whatever, and they just blindly fight for the team.

By getting people to 'hate the other side', they don't really look at the rational issue of whether their own side is right or not. They just want to win elections.

It reminds me of the pre-1960's culture on Cowboy and Indian movies. Cowboys good guys, Indians bad guys, Cowboys shoot Inidians yay we win.

Not really any rational question about the actual history, concern of genocide, slaughtering and burning women and children. We win, yay.

Can't the same be said for republicans though too?

 

[dmcowen674]

1 in 7 was predicted, it came out to be 1 in 6 Americans in poverty.

Bush and Obama plan working flawlessly.

 

[drebo]

The job creators never wanted to create jobs in the US.

Creating a job in the US means you make a $15 profit instead of a $35 profit off of product X. And that is unacceptable to the rich.

Er...what?

Businesses should be as lean and efficient as possible. If one person can do the work, why should they hire two? And, if people will pay $x for a product or service, why should the company charge $x-15?

Your glaring lack of business sense clearly explains why you are a fan of nanny-state, entitlement policies.

 

[Jhhnn]

Er...what?

Businesses should be as lean and efficient as possible. If one person can do the work, why should they hire two? And, if people will pay $x for a product or service, why should the company charge $x-15?

Your glaring lack of business sense clearly explains why you are a fan of nanny-state, entitlement policies.

Efficient at what- pumping money to the top?

Our problem isn't too little efficiency, but rather too much. With ongoing automation and offshoring, great efficiency is achieved. And in an employment climate of more workers than jobs, it's a great time for the Job Creators to cut benefits & wages, cut payrolls, too, because they're making near record profits off lower volume.

They're creating a self fulfilling prophesy, because they don't need or use the greater part of their incomes, other than for mattress stuffing & buying Treasuries ATM. Lower demand = fewer employees required, which means lower demand, so even fewer employees to maintain margins, which are obviously very, very healthy.

Why the Hell should the guys at the top care, anyway? They got theirs, and still take in a helluva lot more than they spend, so, uhh, flake off, you no-account twits. Get a job, asshole, but not at my place, because I'm laying off, just like everybody else. Neighborhood going to Hell? So what? I don't even drive through your neighborhoods. Call somebody who cares.

They own the media, and enough of Congress to keep things just the way they like 'em, and they have an extensive following of raving wannabees who still believe, believe, believe that they might even get a reach around. Dream on, suckers.

What the Job Creators need more than anything else is... another tax cut! Why, yes, that'll allow for even more of that trickledown goodness that their fanbois have been waiting decades to receive. Someday RSN, honest- you'll see!

Chumps.

 

[ShawnD1]

So anything cheaper than healthcare is not a waste? And if you add up all the waste on the crap he mentioned I am pretty sure you could have purchased your own healthcare.

Prolly not. All of my computers and TVs and game systems purchased over the last 3 YEARS costs less than 1 day in a hospital.

 

[Lithium381]

The easiest thing to do is to blame blame blame..... Maximus hates rich people out of jealousy, Asum and Craig and Dave just want to get their free handouts so they trash republicans because they are more successful than they will ever be. " but the rich! "

you guys are starting to bore me, every thread turns into the same ol partisain bickering

 

[cubby1223]

The job creators never wanted to create jobs in the US.

Creating a job in the US means you make a $15 profit instead of a $35 profit off of product X. And that is unacceptable to the rich.

Grow up. It is also unacceptable to "the poor". They're not handing over their money for "Made in America". You can go around blaming your rich boogie-men, or you can face reality. It takes two people to make a transaction.

 

[cubby1223]

It's like a bad sports team. It's called 'identity politics'. They get people to 'identify' as a 'conservative' or whatever, and they just blindly fight for the team.

By getting people to 'hate the other side', they don't really look at the rational issue of whether their own side is right or not. They just want to win elections.

It reminds me of the pre-1960's culture on Cowboy and Indian movies. Cowboys good guys, Indians bad guys, Cowboys shoot Inidians yay we win.

Not really any rational question about the actual history, concern of genocide, slaughtering and burning women and children. We win, yay.

And you are the king of "identity politics". All you ever want to do is "hate the other side". You never look at the issues, you just declare where it fits on your personal left/right scale, and anything that isn't "left" you demonize.

You passionately believe that government should be a wealth redistribution system. That is your side. Anything that doesn't redistribute wealth from "the rich" to "the people", no matter what else is factored into the situation, you declare to be "far right" and extremist. And anything and everything that can be done to discredit a non-redistributionist from winning an election, no matter what it is, you encourage.

You have so much knowledge in you, but you continue to use that time and time again as a means to hate other people. To hate the world. Instead of finding and exploring the good.

 

[Jhhnn]

Grow up. It is also unacceptable to "the poor". They're not handing over their money for "Made in America". You can go around blaming your rich boogie-men, or you can face reality. It takes two people to make a sale.

That's right- willfully ignore the cumulative effects of 30 years of trickledown Reaganomics lies. The extreme shift of income to the top means that the majority of people can't afford anything more than cheap goods, not to mention that paying off overpriced mortgages as a result of the Ownership Society looting spree won't help that one bit.

 

[drebo]

Efficient at what- pumping money to the top?

Our problem isn't too little efficiency, but rather too much. With ongoing automation and offshoring, great efficiency is achieved. And in an employment climate of more workers than jobs, it's a great time for the Job Creators to cut benefits & wages, cut payrolls, too, because they're making near record profits off lower volume.

They're creating a self fulfilling prophesy, because they don't need or use the greater part of their incomes, other than for mattress stuffing & buying Treasuries ATM. Lower demand = fewer employees required, which means lower demand, so even fewer employees to maintain margins, which are obviously very, very healthy.

Why the Hell should the guys at the top care, anyway? They got theirs, and still take in a helluva lot more than they spend, so, uhh, flake off, you no-account twits. Get a job, asshole, but not at my place, because I'm laying off, just like everybody else. Neighborhood going to Hell? So what? I don't even drive through your neighborhoods. Call somebody who cares.

They own the media, and enough of Congress to keep things just the way they like 'em, and they have an extensive following of raving wannabees who still believe, believe, believe that they might even get a reach around. Dream on, suckers.

What the Job Creators need more than anything else is... another tax cut! Why, yes, that'll allow for even more of that trickledown goodness that their fanbois have been waiting decades to receive. Someday RSN, honest- you'll see!

Chumps.

If a company doesn't need you, they're not going to hire you. Period. End of story. It has nothing to do with "getting theirs" or "refusing to give you yours". It's a simple matter of numbers. I need x people to do y job to produce z products. I don't need more than x employees, and I don't have demand for more than z products. Thus, I'm not going to hire more than x employees unless I need more than z products.

Where into that equation do the feelings of executives and people outside the company come into play?

Why do you feel entitled to a paycheck? Companies don't exist to provide you with one. They exist to give you the opportunity to earn one by rendering a service for them which somehow adds value to that company. If you don't want to provide said service, or the company doesn't need said service, the company is not going to give you a paycheck.

If this upsets you, nothing is stopping you from finding your own paycheck. There are thousands of jobs that need doing. People rail that immigrants and migrant workers are taking all of our jobs...but I don't see you going out and applying to pick strawberries. I don't see you standing outside Home Depot waiting for day labor. I don't see you putting up "handy-man" signs advertising a service.

Yes, you have a right to eat and a right to not have to sleep in the rain. I don't begrudge anyone those rights. However, I do take issue with people who expect businesses to hire for the sake of hiring. It is not sustainable and it's not good sense.

Once again, your lack of business sense glaringly points out why you favor socialistic and entitlement policy. Join the real world a bit. Try to run your own business. You'll change your tune pretty quick.

 

[AMFMQAM]

Pity me, for I am a 9/11 truther who is off his meds.