US will not recognize the Armenian genocide

[cubby1223]

Wait, these events happened 100 years ago? Pardon me if I don't give a fuck if the situation is handled with diplomatic care 100 years after the event took place.

 

[norseamd]

We are dealing with the basic idea of just admitting there was an Armenian Genocide which neither the Turks nor the American government is willing to do. The only ones turning this into something very hard are the Turkish and American governments.

 

[senseamp]

It was a genocide, Turkey can either admit it and move on, or it can own the sins of the Ottoman empire by perpetuating their genocidal lies. Either way it was a genocide, whether Turkey or US wants to admit it or not doesn't change the reality, though denial only makes them look worse.

 

[Victorian Gray]

My mistake. It is fair to call 2008 Obama ignorant.

Edit: actually, let me rephrase, it is fair to ask Obama to either admit he was ignorant in 2008 or that he was a political hack who said things he didn't really believe.

Depending on one's own belief, you might agree with 2008 Obama over 2015 Obama, so you might disagree was ignorant back then and argue he is wrong now.

It's simply continuing the cowardice of past administrations (and governments around the world) who, for a variety of political and economic and geo-strategic reasons, don't wish to upset the Turks by calling the Armenian Genocide what it really was, a genocide.

Because what he said here: "Armenian genocide is not an allegation, a personal opinion, or a point of view, but rather a widely documented fact supported by an overwhelming body of historical evidence" is true.

 

[spacejamz]

on CNN today:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/24/politics/armenia-genocide-obama-broken-promise-jake-tapper/index.html

Washington (CNN)This week is the 100th anniversary of what many historians acknowledge as the Armenian genocide -- the Turkish massacre of an estimated 1.5 million Armenians

And it's also the seventh year in a row President Barack Obama has broken his promise to use the word "genocide" to describe the atrocity.

It's a moral position taken by Pope Francis, actor George Clooney and even by the Kardashians.

On the 2008 campaign trail, Obama promised to use the word "genocide" to describe the 1915 massacre by Turks of Armenians -- a pledge he made when seeking Armenian-American votes.

Back then, he held up his willingness to call it a "genocide" as an example of why he was the kind of truth-telling candidate the nation needed.

In 2006, after the U.S. Ambassador to Armenia was asked to resign for using the term Armenian genocide, then-Sen. Obama hammered the Bush administration for not taking a stand.

"The Armenian genocide is not an allegation, a personal opinion, or a point of view, but rather a widely documented fact supported by an overwhelming body of historical evidence," he said.

But that was then.

And now, as was the case with Bush, Obama regards Turkey -- the only Muslim majority country in NATO -- as a more crucial ally than Armenia. Turkey has the second-largest military in NATO, behind only the U.S., and is a crucial ally when it comes to Syria, ISIS, Iran and other Middle East issues.

And Turkey denies this history.

"We cannot define what happened in 1915 as a genocide," Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu told CNN on Tuesday.

In her Pulitzer Prize-winning book about genocide, Obama's current Ambassador to the United Nations Samantha Power hammered U.S. policy makers for not acknowledging or acting to stop such atrocities.

"No U.S. president has ever made genocide prevention a priority, and no U.S. president has ever suffered politically for his indifference to its occurrence. It is thus no coincidence that genocide rages on," she wrote.

 

[nickqt]

on CNN today:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/24/politics/armenia-genocide-obama-broken-promise-jake-tapper/index.html

Washington (CNN)This week is the 100th anniversary of what many historians acknowledge as the Armenian genocide -- the Turkish massacre of an estimated 1.5 million Armenians

And it's also the seventh year in a row President Barack Obama has broken his promise to use the word "genocide" to describe the atrocity.

It's a moral position taken by Pope Francis, actor George Clooney and even by the Kardashians.

On the 2008 campaign trail, Obama promised to use the word "genocide" to describe the 1915 massacre by Turks of Armenians -- a pledge he made when seeking Armenian-American votes.

Back then, he held up his willingness to call it a "genocide" as an example of why he was the kind of truth-telling candidate the nation needed.

In 2006, after the U.S. Ambassador to Armenia was asked to resign for using the term Armenian genocide, then-Sen. Obama hammered the Bush administration for not taking a stand.

"The Armenian genocide is not an allegation, a personal opinion, or a point of view, but rather a widely documented fact supported by an overwhelming body of historical evidence," he said.

But that was then.

And now, as was the case with Bush, Obama regards Turkey -- the only Muslim majority country in NATO -- as a more crucial ally than Armenia. Turkey has the second-largest military in NATO, behind only the U.S., and is a crucial ally when it comes to Syria, ISIS, Iran and other Middle East issues.

And Turkey denies this history.

"We cannot define what happened in 1915 as a genocide," Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu told CNN on Tuesday.

In her Pulitzer Prize-winning book about genocide, Obama's current Ambassador to the United Nations Samantha Power hammered U.S. policy makers for not acknowledging or acting to stop such atrocities.

"No U.S. president has ever made genocide prevention a priority, and no U.S. president has ever suffered politically for his indifference to its occurrence. It is thus no coincidence that genocide rages on," she wrote.

Why does KingObummer™ hate 'Murrica?

 

[Vdubchaos]

Since WW2, has America EVER recognized ANY genocide?

Heck, it took them pretty long even in WW2. Only when attacked did we give a shit......and even then, Poland/camps were liberated by Russians (you know....the people that attacked us at the beginning of the war).

How is this a surprise?

If the country in which genocide had some resources or some interest, I'm sure we would. Unfortunately Armenia....Darfur........Rwanda.........amongst many others DON'T.

So we don't give a shit.

 

[werepossum]

The US is walking a fine line. The Armenian deaths are recognized, but they aren't calling it a genocide (a word that didn't exist until after the deaths occurred). The US is defining a genocide as mass killings with the intent to completely wipe out a group. The Armenian deaths were mass killings without the intent to completely wipe them out. That is a very fine line.

So . . . Just recreational mass killings? Well, I suppose no one could be against that, as long as they didn't intend to kill them all. Just a sustainable Armenian harvest, ay?

It's a silly line, but we insist on pretending to believe that the Turks are still our allies.

I think we need to realize we can not and SHOULD not be the worlds police. We arent any damn good at it and we usually end up making things worse.

On top of which it comes at a magnificent expense to our own budget while we have serious problems of our own not getting fixed.


As for a president making promises during his campaign: Voters should realize when something is obviously bogus. He was trying to get elected. Once he's in office he can make all kinds of excuses. I know his track record on capital hill showed he preferred war over peace, but we knew darn well he was gonna have to clean up the middle east situation if he did become president.

I think his track record on Capital Hill showed only that he preferred being President to being a Senator. But yeah, all politicians are professional liars, and the further up the chain they go the less they can afford to tell the truth. What any politician says while trying to gain power is neither more nor less than what he or she feels will win the election. Only by looking at past behavior and present allies can we gain any sense of what a candidate might do in office.

We are dealing with the basic idea of just admitting there was an Armenian Genocide which neither the Turks nor the American government is willing to do. The only ones turning this into something very hard are the Turkish and American governments.

Yep. Turkey did it, we've done it, most nations have done it. Pretending it never happened just makes you look silly.

 

[Victorian Gray]

 

[shortylickens]

and NONE of them plans to fix it!

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Another lie added to Obama's incredibly long list of lies.

 

[MongGrel]

Shit like this is what just fucks everything up.

Is just a bunch of bull shit, I grew up hearing from my Grandmother eat all your food there are children starving in Armenia.

Most people didn't hear that I imagine 50 years ago, and still haven't heard many people ever say that from way back that weren't Armenian.

Hell my Grandmother wasn't, she was German.

 

[MongGrel]

Another lie added to Obama's incredibly long list of lies.

How you survive on this forum I have no idea.

Stupid responses non stop, you say nothing that matters.

 

[Victorian Gray]

and NONE of them plans to fix it!

Fix what?

 

[MongGrel]

It's interesting I can see all those bombs stretched over one screen in the main room monitor and looks differant in here I guess.

 

[Darwin333]

Just so I understand things correctly, the argument is over the word we use to label some shit and not about the shit that actually happened?

 

[norseamd]

Just so I understand things correctly, the argument is over the word we use to label some shit and not about the shit that actually happened?

Well no actually.

The Turks like to play the game of pretend this shit never occurred in world history. Officially recognizing it as a genocide would bring more attention and run counter to Turkish sociological dogmatism. The Turks loath the possibility of even minor comparisons of even just past actions to the Nazis and shit. Just think about this same type of fecal cesspool over genocide in East Asia and textbooks and shit.

 

[cubby1223]

Proud Canada waiting 87 years after the fact to acknowledge something. They're totally working hard to correct the bad things that happen in the world!

 

[norseamd]

Proud Canada waiting 87 years after the fact to acknowledge something. They're totally working hard to correct the bad things that happen in the world!

And the Vatican?

 

[Darwin333]

Well no actually.

The Turks like to play the game of pretend this shit never occurred in world history. Officially recognizing it as a genocide would bring more attention and run counter to Turkish sociological dogmatism. The Turks loath the possibility of even minor comparisons of even just past actions to the Nazis and shit. Just think about this same type of fecal cesspool over genocide in East Asia and textbooks and shit.

My point was it doesn't sound like anyone is trying to deny how many people they killed. They are just arguing what name to call what they did which imho doesn't make a flying fuck. You could call it an easter egg hunt for all I care, 1.5M people still died and calling it an easter egg hunt or genocide doesn't change anything.

Just seems rather trivial to me that we are debating the definitions 100 years later instead of the actions.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Proud Canada waiting 87 years after the fact to acknowledge something. They're totally working hard to correct the bad things that happen in the world!

Just stopped by to be an asshole?

 

[pcgeek11]

This is so screwed up. It was 100 years ago and makes not one bit of difference what it is/was called.

There are bigger fish to fry.

 

[norseamd]

This is so screwed up. It was 100 years ago and makes not one bit of difference what it is/was called.

There are bigger fish to fry.

You might think that but how the world views past world history is going to influence how the world deals with current situations and world affairs.

 

[brycejones]

Fix what?

Raise the dead? Give the Armenians 40 acres and a mule each?

 

[pcgeek11]

You might think that but how the world views past world history is going to influence how the world deals with current situations and world affairs.

I do think that. I also disagree that what it is called makes no difference with respect to current world affairs.