US Troops Shoot Dead at Least 13 Iraqis - Witnesses

[Hayabusa Rider]

A conquered nation needs to treat it's invaders carefully. They cannot resist, because if they do, they will die. This has been true since before the days of Babylon.

 

[Kadarin]

There are two sides to this story, and it seems that both the Arab media and the liberals on this board want to take the Arab side as gospel truth.

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
There are two sides to this story, and it seems that both the Arab media and the liberals on this board want to take the Arab side as gospel truth.

I would call myself a "liberal" - but I wait for the facts (read my post above). It would be a mistake to label all liberals as Al-Jazeera lapdogs.

Cheers

Andy

 

[Moonbeam]

If you see two sides to a story it's probably because you are blind. The truth is some third way.

 

[gwlam12]

i wish the iraqis would just be patient. if the US left, that place would be in xchaos right now

 

[Dari]

these people are shooting at SOLDIERS. WTF do you expect? Want us to gas them until they're sound asleep? Or maybe we should ask them to stop shooting. In a matter of life and death, you shoot first and ask questions later.

Questions anyone?

 

[flavio]

Just a few more protesting Iraqis being "liberated"....no cause for alarm.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Dari
these people are shooting at SOLDIERS. WTF do you expect? Want us to gas them until they're sound asleep? Or maybe we should ask them to stop shooting. In a matter of life and death, you shoot first and ask questions later.

Questions anyone?

In all things ask what if... In this case what if the Iraqis did shoot at the Americans... "why" would be my next question... then I'd develope options or actions based on the answers that seemed plausable.. There is a big picture here that I assume the Leader ship considers... and killing Iraqis probably ain't part of it.. Bad press and all... I think we should order the soldiers to join in the protests on the side of which ever they are protesting for... become them... as it were.. They can't very well hate their own cause... now can they... soon we'll be offered citizenship by them... we can kiss and go home and they can be free to be what ever their freedom and the stacked odds permit. Round up the first born of each family and tattoo crosses on their foreheads... is another choice..

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Originally posted by: Dari
these people are shooting at SOLDIERS. WTF do you expect? Want us to gas them until they're sound asleep? Or maybe we should ask them to stop shooting. In a matter of life and death, you shoot first and ask questions later.

Questions anyone?

Why can't they just fall back and get out of the area? If they shoot into a crowd, they know they are going to be hitting more than just the people shooting at them. Do the prudent thing and leave the area. That way there can be no dispute about killing civilians, and those that are doing the shooting in the first place will start to look bad in the eyes of the world community. Besides, isn't turning the other cheak the Christian thing to do anyway? These people are mostly a threat to themselves.

 

[mastertech01]

Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce

Originally posted by: Dari
these people are shooting at SOLDIERS. WTF do you expect? Want us to gas them until they're sound asleep? Or maybe we should ask them to stop shooting. In a matter of life and death, you shoot first and ask questions later.

Questions anyone?

Why can't they just fall back and get out of the area? If they shoot into a crowd, they know they are going to be hitting more than just the people shooting at them. Do the prudent thing and leave the area. That way there can be no dispute about killing civilians, and those that are doing the shooting in the first place will start to look bad in the eyes of the world community. Besides, isn't turning the other cheak the Christian thing to do anyway? These people are mostly a threat to themselves.

They were guarding a facility.. you dont just leave your post. You have to be assertive with these people. If you fail to have an assertive authority they will seek out your weak spots and attack (or exploit/intimidate). The soldiers gave warning via bullhorn NOT to fire thier weapons while passing thier post and those carrying AK 47 ignored those warnings, and fired anyway, and when the fire was directed AT the soldiers they fired back in self defense. Im sure those soldiers hated to have to fire into a crowd like that, but they MUST show they will not be intimidated by an out of control mob.

It may seem a cruel situation now, but with this show of force, or assertive authority, future occurrances may be avoided. No guarantees, but just maybe.

 

[drewshin]

It may seem a cruel situation now, but with this show of force, or assertive authority, future occurrances may be avoided. No guarantees, but just maybe.

no, this show of force only tells those that are shooting at the soldiers to keep doing this kind of crap because soldiers are firing and killing civilians in the process - which is exactly what they want.

 

[gwlam12]

more shooting

if iraqis would just stop protesting, things would be fine. dammit

 

[Fencer128]

They were guarding a facility.. you dont just leave your post. You have to be assertive with these people. If you fail to have an assertive authority they will seek out your weak spots and attack (or exploit/intimidate). The soldiers gave warning via bullhorn NOT to fire thier weapons while passing thier post and those carrying AK 47 ignored those warnings, and fired anyway, and when the fire was directed AT the soldiers they fired back in self defense. Im sure those soldiers hated to have to fire into a crowd like that, but they MUST show they will not be intimidated by an out of control mob.

It may seem a cruel situation now, but with this show of force, or assertive authority, future occurrances may be avoided. No guarantees, but just maybe.

I was with you right up until the statement in bold. Its not an army that was being shot at (and we still don't know the exact details - so this may all yet be totally wrong) but it was most likely a mixed mob of civilians and armed trouble makers. It does not justify firing blindly into a crowd hoping you'll hit the gunmen. If you can't see the target you don't fire!

Have you read the accounts of the NI "bloody sunday" incident? In that case the army claimed it was being fired on and returned fire into the crowd. The IRA claimed there never was any gunmen. The undeniable fact is that regardless of whether some of those killed were gunmen - some were definitely not and only civilians protesting. There is still a lasting feeling of hatred over this incident that occured decades ago.

Cheers,

Andy