US to let Turkish forces move into Syria, abandoning Kurdish allies

[cytg111]

It is better than the 100% extermination by the moderate ISIS and the new ottoman caliphate.

Kurds are like out of options here... cause their allies fucked em.

 

[cirrrocco]

Not sure why you want to argue off-tangent points. Regardless, ISIS came about too fast for the U.S. to respond quick enough in a vast country as Iraq. The U.S. was there since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, or 10-11 years before the emergence of ISIS. By the time ISIS became a huge threat to Iraq and the U.S. presence there (2014), only then did the U.S. re-orient their policies there to deal with them. And they succeeded in whittling them down (in conjunction with other forces in the region, Iraqis, Kurds, Arab coalition, etc). And here comes Trump and fucks it all up. After claiming credit for the 'defeat' of ISIS a few months ago, credit that was mostly due to Obama.

Any way, I dont want to argue history with you, the main point I objected to was a couple posts back, to which you proceeded to side-track into misleading historical points. Dont care for our discussion past this point.

You said US was the primary force that stopped ISIS. The DIA document that I posted was from 2012. That's when ISIS started expanding.

The timeline document that I posted was from Jan 2017.

Compare the huge swathes of land that ISIS controlled. what was the US doing from 2012 to 2017 [you said ISIS came about too fast, 5 years.. LOL at you]

Russia entered the picture and in 18 months, the huge swathes of green [SDF] and black [ISIS] was changed to red [Syrian regime]

It is pretty easy if you have a open mind.

You do not have to engage , but there was no sidetracking going on. I was just providing you some historical perspective on when ISIS started expanding.
We were on this forums yelling those days as to why US was not stopping the ISIS advance to Kobani [ rememeber those days, ]

 

[Jhhnn]

Not sure in my posts i mentioned that the US kept calling them moderate ISIS. why are you fixated on that one word. is that going to save the hundreds of people had their head chopped. Great set of morals my friend.

it's amazing how you fixate on either a typo or an error and say 'Huzzah' got you mofo.

Hundreds of thousands of people are suffering on account of our involvement there. Shame on you

See your post #435 where you claimed "moderate ISIS" was a term used by the US govt & your further atttempts to obfuscate the fact that it didn't happen.

There's no such thing as "moderate ISIS" & you know it.

 

[cirrrocco]

See your post #435 where you claimed "moderate ISIS" was a term used by the US govt & your further atttempts to obfuscate the fact that it didn't happen.

There's no such thing as "moderate ISIS" & you know it.

I was being sarcastic in using moderate ISIS. The US and CIA were funding moderate rebels and when people said they were ISIS affiliated, the response was they were moderate rebels.

I have posted multiple documents where the USG were calling al nusra etc moderate rebels. I was pointing out that we were supporting out the worst type of jihadists against the Syrian population and yet whine that americans fall for stupid Russian propaganda. It's just that unbelievable that we like to protect our form of govt but mess around all over the world.

I have been using the terms moderate head choppers, moderate ISIS, moderate al aquaeda . It was to show how out of touch the policy makers were in DC.

 

[cirrrocco]

RT video of the US special forces base

Left in a hurry: RT films inside abandoned US military base at Manbij, Syria (VIDEOS, PHOTOS)

An RT Arabic crew peeked inside the US compound in Syria’s Manbij, abandoned by the Americans just a few hours previously. Footage from the scene suggests the US troops were in a hurry, leaving behind hardware and personal items.

www.rt.com

Interesting to see unfinished meals and personal belongings left there. The order must have been to get the hell out ASAP

Also funny seeing the A1 steak sauce . Yumm

 

[Fanatical Meat]

The issue is our nation should not even be there. who gave us permission to be there? Our morality. The white mans burden??
Since 2011/12 the CIA was funding arms and instigating religious bigotry [check wikileaks] in Syria and then when the Syrians try to crush the jihadists, the saudis , omanis and US rush in to save the jihadists. We were funding the moderate head choppers there for years and caused untold misery and suffering. We need to have got out ages ago and I am glad we are out. Better for Syria and the Kurds in the long run. Not so great for ISIS /ISIL/ Al qaeda and Turkey

It is amazing that half the threads on AT are about russian interference and we do not give a shit when we go in and interfere and cause death elsewhere. Hypocritical liberals [Not even talking about the republicans as their morality is in the gutter supporting hooker in chief]

I mostly agree, I totally agree we need to get out of the ME.
I don’t like not keeping commitments, draw down was far too fast, as usual there appears to be no plan and no chance of thinking of a better strategy.

 

[nakedfrog]

I mostly agree, I totally agree we need to get out of the ME.
I don’t like not keeping commitments, draw down was far too fast, as usual there appears to be no plan and no chance of thinking of a better strategy.

If only Dick Cheney had listened to Dick Cheney when he said that it would be a quagmire.

 

[sportage]

CNN:
On Tuesday, Kremlin-backed forces further stepped up to fill the vacuum left in northern Syria by the US.

So THIS is what it was all about.....?
Now we know, well.... we probably suspected this all long.
Certainly a hell of a lot of Whitehouse staffers expected this.
Once again, Putin pulls the strings and the orange puppet obeys.

What should scare the hell out of every American is, what is also going on with Trump and Putin that we do not know? And may never know?

 

[cytg111]

I mostly agree, I totally agree we need to get out of the ME.
I don’t like not keeping commitments, draw down was far too fast, as usual there appears to be no plan and no chance of thinking of a better strategy.

I can understand the notion that everyone wants to get out of X Y Z, having no business being there, let them sort it out them selves. Right? I suggest its too late. With the WMDs in play today, its EVERYBODY's business when shit goes down.
What happens if America steps down for the international scene as "world police"? Russia steps up. And Putin has this wet dream that if just everybody has enough nukes, thus assuring mutual assured destruction, that is a geopolitical game he can win.
If you wanted to step down you should have done it before the A bomb. Hell before the assault rifle.

 

[fskimospy]

I was being sarcastic in using moderate ISIS. The US and CIA were funding moderate rebels and when people said they were ISIS affiliated, the response was they were moderate rebels.

I have posted multiple documents where the USG were calling al nusra etc moderate rebels. I was pointing out that we were supporting out the worst type of jihadists against the Syrian population and yet whine that americans fall for stupid Russian propaganda. It's just that unbelievable that we like to protect our form of govt but mess around all over the world.

I have been using the terms moderate head choppers, moderate ISIS, moderate al aquaeda . It was to show how out of touch the policy makers were in DC.

Why is that unbelievable though? That's the MO of every government in that we're looking out for our national interest.

It's the same logic as to why it's okay if we bomb other countries but will still destroy you if you bomb Times Square. It's not hypocritical, it's just power. The reason why Russia interfering in our election was bad was that it impacted our sovereignty and, well, frankly Russia is basically an organized crime syndicate masquerading as a nation-state. And look, they're trying to make the US like them!

 

[bguile]

Why is that unbelievable though? That's the MO of every government in that we're looking out for our national interest.

It's the same logic as to why it's okay if we bomb other countries but will still destroy you if you bomb Times Square. It's not hypocritical, it's just power. The reason why Russia interfering in our election was bad was that it impacted our sovereignty and, well, frankly Russia is basically an organized crime syndicate masquerading as a nation-state. And look, they're trying to make the US like them!

Were we looking out for our (U.S.) interest's when we got involved in Syria? It sure felt like we were looking out more for Saudi Arabia's and Israel's interest then our own. And lot's of people suffered needlessly (and are still suffering) because of it. We should have limited our presence to stopping ISIL and that's it. We should never have supported the so called moderates, who were in reality anything but, we should never have strung out the Kurd's with promises of support that we could never realistically deliver on (and they shouldn't have believed us) and we shouldn't have tried regime change with Syria (It almost always comes back to bite us).

I'm actually glad Trump pulled us out. I am not happy that it took this long, nor am I pleased in the manner he did it, but hopefully now this war can finally end. He got to the right place, even if he took the wrong path to get there (at least in Syria....he is totally mucking up with Iran though).

I can't think of many good reason's why the U.S. should even be there anymore. U.S. policy in the middle east has been one misadventure after another since..as long as I can remember. Hopefully future administrations will take note of what an absolute disaster this has been and take a different approach.

Us sticking around trying to believe that somehow we can placate the Turk's all the while trying to support an independent Kurd state on their border was never ever gonna work. The Turks have said as much over and over. All we managed to do was push them to the Russians. At this point, Iran has long since gotten their supply lines to Lebanon, Assad is most assuredly safe, and it looks like Turkey's is gonna get that buffer zone that it wanted (at least some version of it). ISIS is a weakened enough state that Iraq and Syria can manage them. The war is over. We lost. Let this thing play itself out, so hopefully people in the region can get on with their lives.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Were we looking out for our (U.S.) interest's when we got involved in Syria? It sure felt like we were looking out more for Saudi Arabia's and Israel's interest then our own. And lot's of people suffered needlessly (and are still suffering) because of it. We should have limited our presence to stopping ISIL and that's it. We should never have supported the so called moderates, who were in reality anything but, we should never have strung out the Kurd's with promises of support that we could never realistically deliver on (and they shouldn't have believed us) and we shouldn't have tried regime change with Syria (It almost always comes back to bite us).

I'm actually glad Trump pulled us out. I am not happy that it took this long, nor am I pleased in the manner he did it, but hopefully now this war can finally end. He got to the right place, even if he took the wrong path to get there (at least in Syria....he is totally mucking up with Iran though).

I can't think of many good reason's why the U.S. should even be there anymore. U.S. policy in the middle east has been one misadventure after another since..as long as I can remember. Hopefully future administrations will take note of what an absolute disaster this has been and take a different approach.

Us sticking around trying to believe that somehow we can placate the Turk's all the while trying to support an independent Kurd state on their border was never ever gonna work. The Turks have said as much over and over. All we managed to do was push them to the Russians. At this point, Iran has long since gotten their supply lines to Lebanon, Assad is most assuredly safe, and it looks like Turkey's is gonna get that buffer zone that it wanted (at least some version of it). ISIS is a weakened enough state that Iraq and Syria can manage them. The war is over. We lost. Let this thing play itself out, so hopefully people in the region can get on with their lives.

So you argue that having a power vacuum left with no plan and leaving Russia calling the shots with our outposts is a positive thing? No value in doing something other than Donnie's insane nonsense? It seems a very savvy Putin disagrees and Trump helped them establish another foothold.

Nice/s

 

[Jhhnn]

Were we looking out for our (U.S.) interest's when we got involved in Syria? It sure felt like we were looking out more for Saudi Arabia's and Israel's interest then our own. And lot's of people suffered needlessly (and are still suffering) because of it. We should have limited our presence to stopping ISIL and that's it. We should never have supported the so called moderates, who were in reality anything but, we should never have strung out the Kurd's with promises of support that we could never realistically deliver on (and they shouldn't have believed us) and we shouldn't have tried regime change with Syria (It almost always comes back to bite us).

I'm actually glad Trump pulled us out. I am not happy that it took this long, nor am I pleased in the manner he did it, but hopefully now this war can finally end. He got to the right place, even if he took the wrong path to get there (at least in Syria....he is totally mucking up with Iran though).

I can't think of many good reason's why the U.S. should even be there anymore. U.S. policy in the middle east has been one misadventure after another since..as long as I can remember. Hopefully future administrations will take note of what an absolute disaster this has been and take a different approach.

Us sticking around trying to believe that somehow we can placate the Turk's all the while trying to support an independent Kurd state on their border was never ever gonna work. The Turks have said as much over and over. All we managed to do was push them to the Russians. At this point, Iran has long since gotten their supply lines to Lebanon, Assad is most assuredly safe, and it looks like Turkey's is gonna get that buffer zone that it wanted (at least some version of it). ISIS is a weakened enough state that Iraq and Syria can manage them. The war is over. We lost. Let this thing play itself out, so hopefully people in the region can get on with their lives.

The bloodshed between the Turks & the Syrians is only just beginning.

 

[bguile]

So you argue that having a power vacuum left with no plan and leaving Russia calling the shots with our outposts is a positive thing? No value in doing something other than Donnie's insane nonsense? It seems a very savvy Putin disagrees and Trump helped them establish another foothold.

Nice/s

Nope. There is no "power vacuum". We lost. Russia/Iran/Assad won. It's over. They are already calling the shots, and have been for some time. Hanging around, pretending our presence there was actually going to make a difference at this point is fantasy. It's just a waste of time & money. We no longer need to rely on Middle East oil as much, Israel and Turkey can take care of themselves, Saudi Arabia and it's allied countries can fend for themselves as well, plus we still have plenty of bases in the middle east, so sticking it out in Syria achieves nothing now. You can try and argue about the Kurds, but that was never going to end well for them. It just wasn't. It sucks, the Kurd's are one of the few groups there we can get along with, they seem to be fairly progressive for the region, but Turkey is not going to let them have an independent state on its border. The best the Syrian Kurds can hope for is some reconciliation with Assad. I have doubts that it will work, but we will see. It will probably not have a happy ending for them.

Time to go home and regroup, and rethink our strategy.

 

[Jaskalas]

The bloodshed between the Turks & the Syrians is only just beginning.

US pulls out. Turkey invades. Russia / Syria step up and now Turkey must broker a deal with Putin.

Kurds will be the pawns Trump sacrifices so Putin can score Turkey as the ultimate prize in the region.

 

[bguile]

The bloodshed between the Turks & the Syrians is only just beginning.

We will see. I'm sure there will be some, but the Syrians and the Turks have so far managed to avoid major bloodshed in other parts of Syria. Plus Syria should know at this point that they are really in no way able to stand up to Turkey militarily. Even with Russian airpower backing them. Syria can deal with the TFSA forces just fine, but if Turkey really wanted to, they could crush them.

 

[AtenRa]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1184187247677132800

Erdogan says Turkey will never declare ceasefire in northern Syria

President Tayyip Erdogan told U.S. President Donald Trump that Turkey will never declare a ceasefire in northeastern Syria and that it will not negotiate with Kurdish forces it is fighting in its offensive into the region.

www.reuters.com

 

[cytg111]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1184187247677132800

Erdogan says Turkey will never declare ceasefire in northern Syria

President Tayyip Erdogan told U.S. President Donald Trump that Turkey will never declare a ceasefire in northeastern Syria and that it will not negotiate with Kurdish forces it is fighting in its offensive into the region.

www.reuters.com

Next step ... Have US forces ally with Assad and Putin to whoop some NATO arse.

 

[Bitek]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1184187247677132800

Erdogan says Turkey will never declare ceasefire in northern Syria

President Tayyip Erdogan told U.S. President Donald Trump that Turkey will never declare a ceasefire in northeastern Syria and that it will not negotiate with Kurdish forces it is fighting in its offensive into the region.

www.reuters.com

And now Erdogan is refusing to meet our top level delegation of VP, SecOS, and NatSec Advisor.

Basically he tells Trump he's a bitch and to eat his taint.

In addition to the war and bloodshed, this is the cost of weakness.

This has unbelievably undermined our credibility and national security.

No one respects cowardly Trump and the USA

 

[Oric]

And now Erdogan is refusing to meet our top level delegation of VP, SecOS, and NatSec Advisor.

They can meet with their Turkish counterparts. Do US Presidents meet with every VP delegation of foreign countries ?

 

[AtenRa]

Those guys are clowns

Hulusi Akar , Turkish Defense minister and his United States of Turkey dream

https://www.facebook.com/MSB.HulusiAkar/photos/a.2147243455547236/2454254581512787

 

[VRAMdemon]

Were we looking out for our (U.S.) interest's when we got involved in Syria? It sure felt like we were looking out more for Saudi Arabia's and Israel's interest then our own. And lot's of people suffered needlessly (and are still suffering) because of it. We should have limited our presence to stopping ISIL and that's it. We should never have supported the so called moderates, who were in reality anything but, we should never have strung out the Kurd's with promises of support that we could never realistically deliver on (and they shouldn't have believed us) and we shouldn't have tried regime change with Syria (It almost always comes back to bite us).

I'm actually glad Trump pulled us out. I am not happy that it took this long, nor am I pleased in the manner he did it, but hopefully now this war can finally end. He got to the right place, even if he took the wrong path to get there (at least in Syria....he is totally mucking up with Iran though).

I can't think of many good reason's why the U.S. should even be there anymore. U.S. policy in the middle east has been one misadventure after another since..as long as I can remember. Hopefully future administrations will take note of what an absolute disaster this has been and take a different approach.

Us sticking around trying to believe that somehow we can placate the Turk's all the while trying to support an independent Kurd state on their border was never ever gonna work. The Turks have said as much over and over. All we managed to do was push them to the Russians. At this point, Iran has long since gotten their supply lines to Lebanon, Assad is most assuredly safe, and it looks like Turkey's is gonna get that buffer zone that it wanted (at least some version of it). ISIS is a weakened enough state that Iraq and Syria can manage them. The war is over. We lost. Let this thing play itself out, so hopefully people in the region can get on with their lives.

I think most Americans would like to see us out of Syria, including me. But it's the way Trump did it. One fucking phone call. No consulting our allies, military leaders, congress. Now he's calling for them to withdraw. He's all over the place. Him and his "withdraw" is a clusterfuck. He wants every decision to be about him. "Look what I did!, we are out of Syria, vote for ME!. No leadership, no plan for exit, no collaberation with the Kurds. Nothing!

 

[AtenRa]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1184413431895674886

 

[AtenRa]

And now Erdogan is refusing to meet our top level delegation of VP, SecOS, and NatSec Advisor.

They will meet tomorrow Thursday

 

[fskimospy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1184413431895674886

Man that's some Orwellian naming right there, haha. They literally named their invasion Operation Peace, lol.