US Superpower Status Damaged

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BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: ElFenix
besides, if anyone one person it so blame it's alan greenspan and the ridiculously low interest rates he pushed starting in 1998.

:thumbsup:

Ayup. Low interest rates fueled growth, but it was unsustainable growth. That's the very definition of a bubble.

Why don't people understand this? Slow steady growth will beat huge, unpredictable growth long term. You can't build a stable economy on bubbles.

And the bubble started before W entered office.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Germany's SPIEGEL is running a similar article...

I am starting to think that EU can't wait for the USA to fail for some reason, despite the fact that if it does, it will pull the EU down with it.
Europe has a chip on its shoulder when it comes to the US.

They are resentful of the fact that we are the biggest kid on the block and can do anything we want. Look at history, for 400 years Europe ruled the world. Then in the 20th century the US comes along and displaces Europe in a big way.

europe did not rule the world in 1608, i might give you 300 years ago, but even that can be a bit of a stretch.

Europe has claimed to rule the world since the Pope divided it up between the Spanish and Portugese in the Treaty of Tordesillas in 1494.
If you don't believe that it worked, just look at a map and see which languages are spoken where.

unfortunately, they didn't really do anything with it for another 100 years at the earliest, outside of the spanish colonies in the Caribbean and portugese trading posts along the african coast. The colonial period din't peak until the late 1700's, only about 200 years ago, and th last independent african country was conquered by fascist italy in the early 20th century, a meager 80 years ago. Up until the mid 1600's there was clearly potential for both japan and china to become major colonial powers, however instead shut themselves off from the rest of the world.

The treaty of tordesillas may have split the rights to colonize the rest of the world between england and spain, but at that point in time people hadn't even realized that Columbus had discovered a new continent. Spanish and Portuguese languages are mainly spoken in latin america, were the native population was decimated by waves of disease, agression, and the economic collapse.
 

Atheus

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2005
7,313
2
0
The amount of time a nation can remain the world's only superpower seems to be inveresly proportional to how big they are and how modern they are. The Romans controled Eaurope for many centuries, the British empire controled about a quarter of the world for about a century, and the USA (which does not control the world but projects it's power aggressively to much of it) will decline after about 60 or 70 years if you count the start of it's power to be 1945. China will be the greatest power of the 21st century and will last until someone forcibly knocks them off their pedistal after 30 or 40 years.

Disclainer: 'IMO' is implied in all sentances of this post.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Germany's SPIEGEL is running a similar article...

I am starting to think that EU can't wait for the USA to fail for some reason, despite the fact that if it does, it will pull the EU down with it.
Europe has a chip on its shoulder when it comes to the US.

They are resentful of the fact that we are the biggest kid on the block and can do anything we want. Look at history, for 400 years Europe ruled the world. Then in the 20th century the US comes along and displaces Europe in a big way.
EU wants to see the US fail for the same reason the Americans likes to see Europeans as a socialist hell hole, because throughout history it makes one feel better about oneself if those different are doing badly. By extension, they must be doing better and were right and are right.

Anyway, to brush this aside as jealousy or inferiority complex is to embrace the complex you one thinks Europe has. The reality is that the US is losing ground. That is the plain reality.

The spiegel article is very long but so far quite interesting.

I consider many people's greatest weakness is the inability to self-criticize and learn from mistakes, but rather to project fault at others and remain steadfast to a fault with an incorrect philosophy. It's time to get real. The US is fvcking up and until people truly admit that it's not just a small problem but a pervasive one, the US will continue to fvck up. Leadership in this country is a complete mess and it's a mess because the people tolerate it and some even celebrate it.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Atheus
The amount of time a nation can remain the world's only superpower seems to be inveresly proportional to how big they are and how modern they are. The Romans controled Eaurope for many centuries, the British empire controled about a quarter of the world for about a century, and the USA (which does not control the world but projects it's power aggressively to much of it) will decline after about 60 or 70 years if you count the start of it's power to be 1945. China will be the greatest power of the 21st century and will last until someone forcibly knocks them off their pedistal after 30 or 40 years.

Disclainer: 'IMO' is implied in all sentances of this post.

No offense, but I think your post shows how badly fallacious such theories can be.

Each of those examples has significant issues affecting it that hav nothing to do with the theory you express.

Most importantly, if the Chinese were to become far more powerful, there is nothing to say they need to fall.

That's one thing that has me worried about the human race now: the world has never seen such situations where a governmental power in whatever form can be as controlling and secure from overthrow as now, with means from the modern military to modern sociological understanding of controlling populations to the mass media, and therefore the opportunities for tyranny are unprecedented. China could be the wave of the future as foolish Americans fail to protect our unique system (IMO by voting for Republicans).

This is why I have said I think our important political challenge today is to find a way to create a stable global system of distributed power and prevent any 'one world government'.

That one world government need not be one 'nation', it could simply be an alliance of whatever combination of governments and corporations, making the rules.

Think about it: the history of the human race is one long slow movement towards consolidated power. Currently we're entering the 'regional' distribution, where the EU is consolidating Europe, there is a lot of interest in the American nations forming unity like never before, and China is poised to consolidate power in Asia; the long-time dream of African leaders for a 'pan-African' consolidation has not yet happened, but there is a long-time interest.

The level of cooperation between the US and China - in violation of the 'principles' of each - is some indication of how these mutual interests can be powerful. The US uses its valuing of self-determination, liberty, democracy as a justification for aggression in various regions of the world - where is its pressure on China? The selective use of those principles turns them into a mockery and even a fraud, used as cover, as justification, for aggression for other agendas, corrupting them.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,137
225
106
Originally posted by: techs
It's amazing how many people were right when they screamed that Bush was harming the U.S. with his economic policies.
And how wrong the Bush defenders on this forum were when they blindly followed Bush down his road to economic destruction.

QFT...

Bush has the command and chief, the leader of the retards along with rumsfield and rice...

If he was impeached 3-4 years ago for sinking the USA in the war he started as he obviously lied to us, and stated torturing prisoners and tainting our honer. Not to mention dumbing down America, getting out of high tech since it didn't fit his ideology now bankrupting us all ...

If anyone had enough balls to throw the loon out of office to begin with instead the nation figured god would take care of us all I guess.

I semi hope that fruit loop Mcbush wins since it would put the nail in the coffin for the USA.

Yeah, The frigen LEADER the "DECIDER" didn't do it then who the fuck did? Most of the time congress went right along with bush and just rubber stamped everything that went across the desk. I think the commander and chief has way too much power and I'll blame the idiot at the helm since, he steered us into disaster.

For all the idiots that want to defend him, get in line and bend over I got a lot of asskicking to do.

I've been saying WAKE up far too long... I think it's too late now. Were boned as far as I can see. Hope you enjoy the next 20-30 years trying to crawl back out of the hole we made while China is doing space walks and will be passing us in high tech, weaponry, engineering, mathematics, you name it. Better start learning Chinese. Cause BUSH yes the fucking DECIDER is about to borrow another TRILLION (for you fucking morons) thats 12 0's in a trillion! Borrowed from China. Thanks Bush. He's gonna tank the nation before he's done. But I predicted he would do this anyway.

"mission accomplished" -- no worries since the rapture will come and save you fools later. Hahaha What a joke!





 

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Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
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Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
The US is slowly becoming irrelevant with our insistence on keeping our ties with Europe as well. Let's say this financial crisis ends. What's going to happen 20 or 50 years from now when our supposed European allies are suffering an intense demographic problem. Europe starts shrinking in population in 7 years. We should be focusing on building new alliances instead of new enemies. We should be looking at new relationships with countries in South America, Asia.

Think long-term, people.
Please be more specific. I'd love to read the opinion of the guy who still believes Germany was responsible for 9/11....

Brazil, India, Indonesia, etc.

I'd love to read the opinion of the guy who lets the Germans get away with their responsibility in the murder of thousands of Americans.

This would have to be true, though. And as was spoon-fed to you before, it isn't.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: techs
It's amazing how many people were right when they screamed that Bush was harming the U.S. with his economic policies.
And how wrong the Bush defenders on this forum were when they blindly followed Bush down his road to economic destruction.
It's also amazing how many stupid fucking people there are who believe this is all GWB's fault...

hahaha esxcuse...rofl