US stops Pakistani aid, Pakistan threatens to pull out of tribal regions

[Attic]

Well, the opinion on this issue is polarized on both sides, but the majority on each side hate each others' guts.

That is not true at all. A lot of Americans don't respect and do not trust Pakistani military and leadership. Your stance shows a huge lack of respect for the United States leadership and populace, but I don't see any hate anywhere in the posts.

Id encourage you to for a moment to think about the trouble Pakistan went to in order to protect OBL. This is a guy that masterminded the worst terrorist attack in United States history and Pakistan leadership/military repeatedly protected him from the United States efforts to bring him to justice. You are arguing that the United States should have continued to work in effort with Pakistani miltary/leadership to bring OBL to justice after the United States figured out that Pakistan was undermining all the United States efforts to this end.

There is absolutely no question in many Americans mind that we should stop all aid and efforts in Pakistan no matter the advantages of having a presence in that area.

 

[EagleKeeper]

That is not true at all. A lot of Americans don't respect and do not trust Pakistani military and leadership. Your stance shows a huge lack of respect for the United States leadership and populace, but I don't see any hate anywhere in the posts.

Id encourage you to for a moment to think about the trouble Pakistan went to in order to protect OBL. This is a guy that masterminded the worst terrorist attack in United States history and Pakistan leadership/military repeatedly protected him from the United States efforts to bring him to justice. You are arguing that the United States should have continued to work in effort with Pakistani miltary/leadership to bring OBL to justice after the United States figured out that Pakistan was undermining all the United States efforts to this end.

There is absolutely no question in many Americans mind that we should stop all aid and efforts in Pakistan no matter the advantages of having a presence in that area.

The flaw in your logic is that the Pakistani people seem to not feel that their government/military has anything to do with OBL roaming free inside Pakistan. Nor do they think that the fact that targets disappear when the Pakistani officials are alerted about them becoming targets is a problem.

So when the evidence is laid out and they deny such coincidences; it becomes difficult to bridge the gap.

They expect that they should be the ones to enforce the law in their country (if possible); but no one else should step in. That is the issue with OBL and the drones. Because they are unable/unwilling to solve the problems that are in their face; it is a loss of face for someone else (especially an infidel) to do it for them.

The US would probably feel the same way; however, our law enforcement / military system is not as corrupt as theirs - so assistance from others would be utilized in the manner intended.

 

[Zargon]

Well, the opinion on this issue is polarized on both sides, but the majority on each side hate each others' guts.

I personally believe we must distance ourselves from the USA in the long term. They betrayed us once, and are doing so again and hope American influence in the rest of the Muslim world dwindles.

I dont hate pakistani's.

I have zero respect for the gov't and military as they are corrupt POS's.

you guys seem to hate the shit out of us on all levels

 

[5to1baby1in5]

Pakistan does not care, it found a new friend who will fuck her in the ass instead of the USA.

China, folks.

You can be rest assured that the US-Pak alliance evaporated the moment the Pakistanis realized that the chinese cow was better worth milking that the American Bull.

Consider the benefits.

Chinese aid have no strings attached. No need to fight the jihadis or atleast even pretend to do it.

Both countries have a common alliance against their neighbour India.

China has no concerns for things like human rights, so aid is no questions asked.

China's aid is primarily military which suits the Pakistanis really well.

China shall not allow Pakistan to fail because it is about to become Beijing's foothold in west asia.

SO in simple words, US is not dumping Pakistan. Instead Pakistan has simply found a new client to prostitute itself to for short term gains.

Soon we'll start seeing FREE PAKISTAN bumper stickers on the back of VW Beetles.

 

[Doppel]

I think this is all a result of the American raid on OBL which was a grave mistake.

There's clearly a huge chasm between you and your audience. Operationally speaking the OBL operation was absolutely exceptional. The only flaw in it whatsoever was that a helicopter was lost (granted, that is quite meaningful, especially with it being a steal heli), but no loss of life by friendlies, main parameters of the mission all met, it was done within the specified timeline and by the time Pakistani jets made it to the area it was already cleared.

So, was the mission just? You'll never convince the majority of Americans that unilaterally going into Pakistan, an extremely corrupt country with a barely functioning government, to take out the world's most sought after criminal was not the right thing to do. If anything Pakistan's reaction to all of this simply serves to add credence to the president's fears about confiding in Pakistan before this was over.

 

[mcmilljb]

Well, the opinion on this issue is polarized on both sides, but the majority on each side hate each others' guts.

I personally believe we must distance ourselves from the USA in the long term. They betrayed us once, and are doing so again and hope American influence in the rest of the Muslim world dwindles.

English isn't your first language is it? I shall help you with your English.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/betray

1.) to deliver or expose to an enemy by treachery or disloyalty

Where have we seen that before... Oh yeah, your fucktard military telling the enemies we're going to blow them up and hiding terrorists. We don't need your country for any thing. We can impose our own No-Fly Zone in your country and drop bombs at-will on your military's BFF, terrorists. Good luck with Chinese equipment, if it works. I hope you sleep in your bed scared of all the bad people your country wants to protect because they won't hestitate to kill you on a whim.

 

[werepossum]

English isn't your first language is it? I shall help you with your English.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/betray



Where have we seen that before... Oh yeah, your fucktard military telling the enemies we're going to blow them up and hiding terrorists. We don't need your country for any thing. We can impose our own No-Fly Zone in your country and drop bombs at-will on your military's BFF, terrorists. Good luck with Chinese equipment, if it works. I hope you sleep in your bed scared of all the bad people your country wants to protect because they won't hestitate to kill you on a whim.

LOL We "betrayed" Pakistan by raiding and killing the man they claimed to be also hunting down to kill, using our money, when in actuality they were hiding and protecting him and his network. Yeah, we betrayed Pakistan, like Poland betrayed the Allies.

 

[busydude]

I personally believe we must distance ourselves from the USA in the long term. They betrayed us once, and are doing so again and hope American influence in the rest of the Muslim world dwindles.

You have no sense of gratitude; The US helped you numerous times, both militarily and in the form of humanitarian aid. No matter how much anyone tries to help your country.. you counter it by making matters worse, you are just shooting your selves in your foot, and digging your own grave - at the same time.

 

[OCGuy]

The OP never tries to counter any argument that is given to him here. He just posts hit-and-run threads, and either does not have the English comprehension skills to debate, or he is some form of beloved patriot state agent who is paid to go onto English message boards and push the beloved patriot cause.

When we kill fundy Muslims? White Devil!

Earthquake and need help? Please help us!


That sounds more like a government way of thinking rather than an average citizen....hmm..

 

[Muse]

Pakistan up til now has enjoyed some credibility in the international community thanks to US support. Now that it has showed repeated willingness to hide and aid terrorists up to and including OBL himself Pakistan will begin it's decent into complete pariah status. I wouldn't be surprised if we mention Pakistan in the same vein as North Korea and Iran soon.

Pakistan has failed.... and now the wheels will start coming off the wagon.

Two wheels have been off that 4 wheeler for a while. The only reason we are coddling her is the nuclear capability, oh, and the access to Afghanistan. Pakistan is a madhouse. It's factionalized but I don't remember hearing from a sane element. Oh, and The Green Bean has weeds coming out of his ears.

 

[tvarad]

Pakistan does not care, it found a new friend who will fuck her in the ass instead of the USA.

China, folks.

You can be rest assured that the US-Pak alliance evaporated the moment the Pakistanis realized that the chinese cow was better worth milking that the American Bull.

Consider the benefits.

Chinese aid have no strings attached. No need to fight the jihadis or atleast even pretend to do it.

Both countries have a common alliance against their neighbour India.

China has no concerns for things like human rights, so aid is no questions asked.

China's aid is primarily military which suits the Pakistanis really well.

China shall not allow Pakistan to fail because it is about to become Beijing's foothold in west asia.

SO in simple words, US is not dumping Pakistan. Instead Pakistan has simply found a new client to prostitute itself to for short term gains.

The difference between the U.S. and China vis-a-vis their relationships with pakistan is that the former treated it like an honorable woman until the last year or so when it realized it was being had wholesale whereas the Chinese treat it like the hooker it is and keep it at arm's length while it gets pleasured.

Let me also add that, in 1971, when India was kicking beloved patriot ass, the pakistanis assumed that the Chinese would create a diversion by attacking India and help hem out. Well, they waited and waited and waited .... and there was no sign of their "all weather" friend. In the end Tricky Dick Nixon and his cohort Kissinger sailed the 7th Fleet into the Indian Ocean as a warning to India not to invade West Pakistan and dismember it.

 

[MotF Bane]

Well, the opinion on this issue is polarized on both sides, but the majority on each side hate each others' guts.

I personally believe we must distance ourselves from the USA in the long term. They betrayed us once, and are doing so again and hope American influence in the rest of the Muslim world dwindles.

It's not an active hatred. If the Middle East didn't produce most of the world's oil and terrorists, nobody would give a flying fuck about the idiots living there shooting each other, stoning each other, and generally screwing everything up in the name of some misguided fairy tale.

 

[MotF Bane]

English isn't your first language is it? I shall help you with your English.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/betray



Where have we seen that before... Oh yeah, your fucktard military telling the enemies we're going to blow them up and hiding terrorists. We don't need your country for any thing. We can impose our own No-Fly Zone in your country and drop bombs at-will on your military's BFF, terrorists. Good luck with Chinese equipment, if it works. I hope you sleep in your bed scared of all the bad people your country wants to protect because they won't hestitate to kill you on a whim.

Russia builds a fighter jet. It can't match an American jet.
Russia weakens the fighter jet, and then sells it to China.
China applies lead to the design, like everything else.
China sells spectacularly crappy jets to Pakistan.

I'm going with not working. :awe:

 

[MotF Bane]

The OP never tries to counter any argument that is given to him here. He just posts hit-and-run threads, and either does not have the English comprehension skills to debate, or he is some form of beloved patriot state agent who is paid to go onto English message boards and push the beloved patriot cause.

When we kill fundy Muslims? White Devil!

Earthquake and need help? Please help us!


That sounds more like a government way of thinking rather than an average citizen....hmm..

Sure does. We'll be happy to take your money, America, and then ignore you and help terrorists.

 

[WelshBloke]

OP why do you feel the OBL raid was a grave mistake?

No civilians were injured, no third party property was destroyed.

The Pakistani authorities had already said they were supportive in the hunt for OBL, so if that support was genuine then I would have thought they would have been pleased.

The only way I could see people being upset is if they were supportive of OBL or that they already disliked the Americans and didn't really need another reason.

 

[LumbergTech]

OP why do you feel the OBL raid was a grave mistake?

No civilians were injured, no third party property was destroyed.

The Pakistani authorities had already said they were supportive in the hunt for OBL, so if that support was genuine then I would have thought they would have been pleased.

The only way I could see people being upset is if they were supportive of OBL or that they already disliked the Americans and didn't really need another reason.

There are other reasonable arguments about it, but I think we did the right thing that time. I have found very few things in common with the pro-war crowd, but I agree with snuffing out OBL . The guy orchestrated attacks on us and then thought he could pop up from time to time making threats to the world...

A song comes to mind...You don't have to come and confess, we're lookin for you..we gone find you....so run a tell that (to al qaeda) home home home boy

Pakistan is on the list as far as I'm concerned. I tried to give them the benefit of a doubt, but their government clearly does not see us as a true ally, but someone to take advantage of and leech money from.

 

[Doboji]

The OP isn't going to respond to this thread or even begin to engage in rational conversation. He's just a thread terrorist. Drops his bombs, stirs us up and then runs off to hide in his cave.

 

[WelshBloke]

There are other reasonable arguments about it, but I think we did the right thing that time. I have found very few things in common with the pro-war crowd, but I agree with snuffing out OBL . The guy orchestrated attacks on us and then thought he could pop up from time to time making threats to the world...

...

The Pakistani authorities had already agreed to help in the hunt for OBL, so the only real objections I can see would be based on wounded pride in being left out of the loop.

I'd rank wounded pride being of fairly low importance to have escalated to this level.

 

[Jaskalas]

US stops Pakistani aid, Pakistan threatens to pull out of tribal regions

Anyone else notice the logical fallacy of us having to PAY Pakistan for Pakistan to protect its own country from 'tribesmen'? You'd think they'd care about such a thing, and with their own volition, take action to secure themselves.

The way I see it, we're paying them to put on a good show, make it look like they're doing something, when the reality is there is no threat to them and they only care about squeezing money out of us.

Our position there is asinine. End Afghanistan, end our money, and stop paying terrorists to pile up their own undesirables.

 

[werepossum]

The difference between the U.S. and China vis-a-vis their relationships with pakistan is that the former treated it like an honorable woman until the last year or so when it realized it was being had wholesale whereas the Chinese treat it like the hooker it is and keep it at arm's length while it gets pleasured.

Let me also add that, in 1971, when India was kicking beloved patriot ass, the pakistanis assumed that the Chinese would create a diversion by attacking India and help hem out. Well, they waited and waited and waited .... and there was no sign of their "all weather" friend. In the end Tricky Dick Nixon and his cohort Kissinger sailed the 7th Fleet into the Indian Ocean as a warning to India not to invade West Pakistan and dismember it.

The Pakistanis expecting China to start a war with India for Pakistan's benefit just points out the level of insanity within that country.

Anyone else notice the logical fallacy of us having to PAY Pakistan for Pakistan to protect its own country from 'tribesmen'? You'd think they'd care about such a thing, and with their own volition, take action to secure themselves.

The way I see it, we're paying them to put on a good show, make it look like they're doing something, when the reality is there is no threat to them and they only care about squeezing money out of us.

Our position there is asinine. End Afghanistan, end our money, and stop paying terrorists to pile up their own undesirables.

Well said. We're merely helping to fund terrorist attacks on India. We need to accelerate our departure from Afghanistan so as to go back to ignoring its southern neighbor.

And the next time we receive a major attack from a terrorist force protected by a shithole of a nation, let's just glass it. If they have no surviving airports and seaports, they can't easily project terrorism.

 

[davmat787]

You know a country is a failure when it "threatens" to pull out of regions within its own borders.

Mr. President, please pull our boys and girls out of that region ASAP, this is one issue where more and more people of divergent political ideas are in agreement.

 

[Kadarin]

Green Bean, you act like you hate the US, but you also imply that Pakistan is somehow entitled to US aid. It is not.

 

[iGas]

Soon we'll start seeing FREE PAKISTAN bumper stickers on the back of VW Beetles.

I concur!

 

[OutHouse]

Firstly, my ISP changed their IP ranges and for some reason the range is blocked on these forums so I can't post as much as I would like to.

This is perhaps the most significant news in the Afghan War since the capture of OBL, perhaps even more so. I won't post direct links since things are developing fast but you can visit http://tribune.com.pk/ for the latest from our side of the story.

I think this is all a result of the American raid on OBL which was a grave mistake. Pakistani asked the US to vacate the Shamsi base which it refused to do so. All American personnel and trainers were kicked out of the country. The media is reporting the US wanted to establish a permanent base in Pakistan, like those in Germany and Japan, and the military refused to let the Americans do so.

Next thing you know the aid was cut off. Tit for tat. Now it'll be interesting to see what Pakistan does here. I really don't think they will bring back the troops from the frontier because it has the potential to wreak havoc in the area, but one thing is for sure: they will NOT go after the Haqqani network anytime soon.

I think the US has prepared for a Pakistani response. Just last week there was a media report that the US was shifting its supply routes out of Pakistan. I think Pakistan will cut off American supply routes. America might respond with unilateral sanctions, but in the long run that will only help us. The US is our biggest trading partner and we need to change that. We need to increase are trade volumes with China, India and Iran.

If this is the Afghan endgame, the USA is quite a few pieces down.

if you really are stupid enough to ever think there will be no American military in your shit hole country you are sadly mistaken. i told you several years ago that we had special forces in your country and you blew me off. i was right then and i am right now. there is no way we will allow your cuntry to operate behind closed doors. get use to it its just the way it is. we rule you suck.

 

[OutHouse]

Green Bean, you act like you hate the US, but you also imply that Pakistan is somehow entitled to US aid. It is not.

and he comes on here BEGGING like a goat fucking bitch for the people on this board to donate money for the pakistani flood.

and not 2 days later is back to posting his american hating shit.