Originally posted by: rahvin
I don't think anyone wants Europe dependent on the US Czar. We don't want a France or Germany trying to conquer the world but a European Armed force with sensible leadership (not french) would be a very good thing and would allow the US to staff down European bases. We also don't care about this satelite system as long as you have ability to turn it off in times of war incase someone wants to use it against the NATO allies. It would be wonderfull if we could have these highly accurate systems available for commercial use but the fear is that not everyone in the world shares our desire for freedom. Xenophobic countries could use the system to develop quickly highly accurate long rang ballistic missles. We have a lot of unstable regimes in the world now that the balancing effect of the cold war is over.
Originally posted by: Dari
Well, at least we have Echeleon.
Originally posted by: dpm
Originally posted by: rahvin
I don't think anyone wants Europe dependent on the US Czar. We don't want a France or Germany trying to conquer the world but a European Armed force with sensible leadership (not french) would be a very good thing and would allow the US to staff down European bases. We also don't care about this satelite system as long as you have ability to turn it off in times of war incase someone wants to use it against the NATO allies. It would be wonderfull if we could have these highly accurate systems available for commercial use but the fear is that not everyone in the world shares our desire for freedom. Xenophobic countries could use the system to develop quickly highly accurate long rang ballistic missles. We have a lot of unstable regimes in the world now that the balancing effect of the cold war is over.
About US bases in Europe. - The US is no longer forced to base there to protect Europe - Europe can today protect itself as well as the US can. There are only two reasons for the bases today,
1) To maintain a US presence there, and to maintain good relations - there are communities in Europe who are reliant upon the local bases, and would be as sad to see them go as an american communities are when that happens.
2) More importantly - Missile defence. When the system is fully implemented, America will rely on Europe as a forward shield to defend against missiles heading west. It needs a net of bases - to detect, and then to launch second tier interceptors. European countries may not be too willing to host these, when they don't get the same benefits themselves, and when the sites themselves will be targets. However, pre-existing bases gives the US a good bargaining position - ie Fylingdales
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Ah, such emotion! Protect, protect, protect! Fire them furnaces and keep hope alive.
Originally posted by: AndrewR
Galileo is a waste of money, plain and simple. If it's intended as a military enhancement, the Europeans, particularly Germany, would be much better off spending money upgrading their conventional forces which are in sore need of money. Look at Belgian's vaunted military, which spends something like 50% of its budget on personnel costs (if you ask for a cite for that, I'll kill you -- read it about 3 months ago in an article about Norway's military ).
Seems to me more of a pride issue than anything else, which is damn stupid considering the budget deficits both France and Germany are running right now, CONTRARY TO EU "LAW", mind you. Work on something that doesn't exist or needs fixing, not duplication of existing capabilities. As is mentioned above, the future of the EU is far from certain, and I suspect it's much more likely for the EU to descend into nationalist fractionalism than it is for Fortress Europe and the United States to become bitter enemies.
Besides, people like me would never let the U.S. become an enemy of Europe. I love French wine too much. Just brought back several Grand Cru from Alsace.
By the way, Freegeeks, I wouldn't use French cars as an example of quality engineering when they aren't sold in the U.S. because of a horrible perception about their reliability. Ditto for Italian Fiats. With German cars, I'll give you the quality aspect.
Originally posted by: AndrewR
Galileo is a waste of money, plain and simple. If it's intended as a military enhancement, the Europeans, particularly Germany, would be much better off spending money upgrading their conventional forces which are in sore need of money. Look at Belgian's vaunted military, which spends something like 50% of its budget on personnel costs (if you ask for a cite for that, I'll kill you -- read it about 3 months ago in an article about Norway's military ). Seems to me more of a pride issue than anything else, which is damn stupid considering the budget deficits both France and Germany are running right now, CONTRARY TO EU "LAW", mind you. Work on something that doesn't exist or needs fixing, not duplication of existing capabilities. As is mentioned above, the future of the EU is far from certain, and I suspect it's much more likely for the EU to descend into nationalist fractionalism than it is for Fortress Europe and the United States to become bitter enemies. Besides, people like me would never let the U.S. become an enemy of Europe. I love French wine too much. Just brought back several Grand Cru from Alsace. By the way, Freegeeks, I wouldn't use French cars as an example of quality engineering when they aren't sold in the U.S. because of a horrible perception about their reliability. Ditto for Italian Fiats. With German cars, I'll give you the quality aspect.
Originally posted by: AndrewR
Galileo is a waste of money, plain and simple. If it's intended as a military enhancement, the Europeans, particularly Germany, would be much better off spending money upgrading their conventional forces which are in sore need of money. Look at Belgian's vaunted military, which spends something like 50% of its budget on personnel costs (if you ask for a cite for that, I'll kill you -- read it about 3 months ago in an article about Norway's military ).
Seems to me more of a pride issue than anything else, which is damn stupid considering the budget deficits both France and Germany are running right now, CONTRARY TO EU "LAW", mind you. Work on something that doesn't exist or needs fixing, not duplication of existing capabilities. As is mentioned above, the future of the EU is far from certain, and I suspect it's much more likely for the EU to descend into nationalist fractionalism than it is for Fortress Europe and the United States to become bitter enemies.
Besides, people like me would never let the U.S. become an enemy of Europe. I love French wine too much. Just brought back several Grand Cru from Alsace.
By the way, Freegeeks, I wouldn't use French cars as an example of quality engineering when they aren't sold in the U.S. because of a horrible perception about their reliability. Ditto for Italian Fiats. With German cars, I'll give you the quality aspect.
Originally posted by: B00ne
Originally posted by: AndrewR
Galileo is a waste of money, plain and simple. If it's intended as a military enhancement, the Europeans, particularly Germany, would be much better off spending money upgrading their conventional forces which are in sore need of money. Look at Belgian's vaunted military, which spends something like 50% of its budget on personnel costs (if you ask for a cite for that, I'll kill you -- read it about 3 months ago in an article about Norway's military ).
Seems to me more of a pride issue than anything else, which is damn stupid considering the budget deficits both France and Germany are running right now, CONTRARY TO EU "LAW", mind you. Work on something that doesn't exist or needs fixing, not duplication of existing capabilities. As is mentioned above, the future of the EU is far from certain, and I suspect it's much more likely for the EU to descend into nationalist fractionalism than it is for Fortress Europe and the United States to become bitter enemies.
Besides, people like me would never let the U.S. become an enemy of Europe. I love French wine too much. Just brought back several Grand Cru from Alsace.
By the way, Freegeeks, I wouldn't use French cars as an example of quality engineering when they aren't sold in the U.S. because of a horrible perception about their reliability. Ditto for Italian Fiats. With German cars, I'll give you the quality aspect.
Guys, why do u have to look militaristic at everything? Where do you get the idea that GALILEO is a military project - it isnt. It is a commercial project. Granted, I havent researched a whole lot on the matter, maybe they just sell it to us as civilian to get public support - which they wouldnt if military was mentioned - but no,I have never heard anything about military being a priority.
And freegeeks - Renault wanting to enter the US market? As what - curiosity, have you looked at those ugly POS they are producing lately. There would be more chance in selling those bland looking Citreons. The only decent french car maker imho is Peugot. Btw, according to ADAC road-failure statistics french cars have a sucky reliability.
For years they have been associated with rock-solid reliability, but the reputations of two of Germany's most famous car brands were dented by a Consumers' Association survey yesterday.
Volkswagen crashed into the poor category of the reliability survey while two other VW-owned companies, Seat and Audi, slipped from good to average. The Audi TT, seen as one of the most stylish new models of recent years, received one of the lowest scores for reliability in years.
Another German car company, Mercedes-Benz, slipped two categories, from best to average, in reliability. No German carmaker managed to make it into either the best or good categories of the survey, published by the association's magazine Which?.
Originally posted by: Genesys
Originally posted by: kage69
Jam away!
i feel the same.
you are right about the Belgian army. it's not a priority anymore. The only combat capable troops for the moment are the paratroopers brigade, some infantry units and our 90 modernized F-16's. We are only talking about a couple of thousand troops on a total of 45000. A big problem is that the Belgian army doesn't have enough (young) volunteers. Mandatory military service was stopped 7-8 years ago and they just don't have the people to fill up the combat positions.
And about the French cars, it's only perception. German cars have a reputation of reliablity and just look to the VW Passat problems.
btw Renault has plans to reenter the USA market in the coming years
enjoy the wine. If I remember correctly you were in France for some army language course. I see you made out it alive. Maybe the French are not that bad
Guys, why do u have to look militaristic at everything? Where do you get the idea that GALILEO is a military project - it isnt. It is a commercial project. Granted, I havent researched a whole lot on the matter, maybe they just sell it to us as civilian to get public support - which they wouldnt if military was mentioned - but no,I have never heard anything about military being a priority.