US Military raids within Afghanistan

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: dahunan
Wow.. all this BS about
but they cling to human shields etc etc..

THEN DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT SO YOU AREN'T TERRORISTS TOO

Jesus Christ - let me murder your Mom and tell you she was collateral damage.. AND KEEP doing it and doing it ad infinitum.. how long before you start firing back..

I have an idea. How about the Taliban move away from civilians, wear uniforms, and fight like people who actually care whether or not civilians end up as collateral damage? I have absolutely no doubt that the US military would have no issues with that position whatsoever. The civilian population would be safe. Problem solved.

See how easy solving problems is?

Right.. think .... why would any significantly undermanned and underpowerd military jump out and be shooting dummies... **I don't like it one bit.. but why should they do any differently?

Then admit they use their civilians as shooting dummies for them, on purpose and with malice aforethought. Don't get mad at the US military shooting. Get mad at the Taliban involving civilians in the first place. So should the Afghanis.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I give the U.S. military far more credit for at least trying to limit civilian casualties. I don't see our guys shooting innocent civilians in the head and dumping their bodies in the village square to make a point about how powerful they are. Take a gander at what the Taliban are doing over in the SWAT valley in Pakistan, it's downright sickening:

I give our troops credit for doing far better than that as well, but that doesn't excuse dropping big bombs on lightly armed targets in civilian areas, or arming and funding warlords who fight against the taliban but share the much the same barbarous tactics.

Originally posted by: AFMatt
Have you even considered, just for one freakin second, that some of this is propaganda driven by terrorist/Taliban money and intimidation?

Of course. I have also considered how much money and intimidation the tyrants you work for put into such propaganda for themselves. I'd ask you to consider that too, but I get the impression you have no interest in doing anything of the sort.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: palehorse
I'll promote you to Platoon Leader. Congrats, you're now a 23-year old 2nd Lieutenant.

Originally posted by: dahunan
Wow.. all this BS about
but they cling to human shields etc etc..

THEN DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT SO YOU AREN'T TERRORISTS TOO

One again, Sir, any suggestions?

*crickets*

 

[Lemon law]

Once again, the ever clueless palehorse asks, "One again, Sir, any suggestions?"

And at the risk of sounding like a broken record, quit trying to kill your way out of the problem. After eight years of continuous failure, surely that has dawned on you. You are in battle of ideas, and are losing badly, and managing to make your self even a worse scourge than the Taliban. Quite a feat, but congratulations, you have somehow achieved that by totally ignoring what the Afghan people really need. And totally failing to deliver it or even address it while you remain a legend in your own mind. Deep Deep Deep in denial while you kill the Afghan people to save them.

I have spent countless posts telling you how to win, but what do I know, I was not in Vietnam either, and your type of thinking lost just as badly anyway.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Once again, the ever clueless palehorse asks, "One again, Sir, any suggestions?"

And at the risk of sounding like a broken record, quit trying to kill your way out of the problem. After eight years of continuous failure, surely that has dawned on you. You are in battle of ideas, and are losing badly, and managing to make your self even a worse scourge than the Taliban. Quite a feat, but congratulations, you have somehow achieved that by totally ignoring what the Afghan people really need. And totally failing to deliver it or even address it while you remain a legend in your own mind. Deep Deep Deep in denial while you kill the Afghan people to save them.

I have spent countless posts telling you how to win, but what do I know, I was not in Vietnam either, and your type of thinking lost just as badly anyway.

Maybe you missed -- or once again conveniently ignored -- my six-part plan posted above. You should check it out. I think you'll be particularly interested in item #6...

You're the most full-of-shit and arrogant motherfucker I've ever encountered on the interweb.

congrats.

 

[chucky2]

palehorse, you mean you can't snap your fingers and make conditions perfect in Afghanistan for LL's no-shit ideas to be able to work????

 

[bbdub333]

Originally posted by: palehorse

You're the most full-of-shit and arrogant motherfucker I've ever encountered on the interweb.

Seconded

 

[Lemon law]

At least palehorse points two and five have some merit.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
At least palehorse points two and five have some merit.

Actually, in terms of debatable options, they all have "merit"... especially #6!

 

[jpeyton]

There is no flag large enough...

 

[Lemon law]

The ever clueless TLC says, "Don't get mad at the US military shooting. Get mad at the Taliban involving civilians in the first place. So should the Afghanis.

Funny thing TLC, you don't get a vote so your opinion does not matter. If you bothered to read the original link, the Afghans do blame the USA and Nato for their record of callous collateral damage, and if you want almost 100% disapproval, try the Tribal regions of Pakistan.

And not to defend the Taliban, when Nato sets up a kill on sight metric, the Taliban is going to respond in kind. Not too wise when many of the Taliban are the very sons of the Afghan people.

The type of thinking you, palehorse, and JOS represent is almost 100% of the reason we are losing in Afghanistan, get a clue, after seven years, that type of thinking is flat out not working.

 

[dahunan]

Just go back to Napalming all the villages... *rolls eyes*

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: dahunan
^^ Taliban are probably the most disgusting people to ever inhabit this earth and they need to be stopped/cleansed etc

But.. killing innocents while hunting them is not the way to do it.. not my job to figure out best method<--well then STFU!!!!



.. but that one aint it

 

[squirrel dog]

Whatever . Its Obama's War now .

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: squirrel dog
Whatever . Its Obama's War now .

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And if Obama tries GWB type tactics, or listens to Palehorse and JOS type thinking
and delusions, he is going to have exactly the same results as GWB.

If Obama adds 72,000 troops to Afghanistan, he will then have only 1/4 of the number of troops needed to run any kind of military occupation in Afghanistan alone. Widening the war into Pakistan or even the tribal areas of Pakistan is the biggest possible mistake to make.

Just like Iraq, its a political problem, and reducing violence and corruption has to be the number one goal. Unlike Iraq, where we are dealing with three radically different factions in the Kurds, Sunnis, and Shia, Afghanistan and the tribal areas of Pakistan are populated by a relatively homogeneous set of people that want a government that works.

And we have delivered a corrupt government that does not work while three armed groups run around making the whole region into a shooting gallery, making it quite understandable the poll results that life was far safer while the Taliban was in charge.

And given the Nato record of perpetuating violence and corruption, it also becomes understandable that removing Nato as one of those armed groups is seen as the preferred option of the local population.

Pitted against that idea is the palehorse JOS fantasy that a Nato army can sweep through the tribal areas of Pakistan South to North or West to East, chasing all Taliban and Al-Quida ahead of it, until like trapped rats, they can be cornered and annihilated. When in fact what is more certain to happen is that the Taliban and Al-Quida will simply cache their weapons, blend into the local populace, and watch the Nato army march by and vanish into the trackless waste lands of the Stans to the North. And then the Taliban and Al-Quida can filter right back into the now largely unprotected heartlands of Afghanistan and the Pakistani tribal areas resuming business as usual while hatreds against Nato rise up to new highs.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
The ever clueless TLC says, "Don't get mad at the US military shooting. Get mad at the Taliban involving civilians in the first place. So should the Afghanis.

Funny thing TLC, you don't get a vote so your opinion does not matter. If you bothered to read the original link, the Afghans do blame the USA and Nato for their record of callous collateral damage, and if you want almost 100% disapproval, try the Tribal regions of Pakistan.

And not to defend the Taliban, when Nato sets up a kill on sight metric, the Taliban is going to respond in kind. Not too wise when many of the Taliban are the very sons of the Afghan people.

The type of thinking you, palehorse, and JOS represent is almost 100% of the reason we are losing in Afghanistan, get a clue, after seven years, that type of thinking is flat out not working.

LL. I really don't give a shit about the opinions of you or your pals in the tribal region of Pakistan. And if Afghanis want to defend those who put them in harm's way and use them as human shields, or throw acid on their daughters while trying to get an education, or execute their neighbors who might have the gall to speak out against the brutalities of the Taliban; that's their right and yours.

Your claim of "And not to defend the Taliban" is the biggest line of horse manure in your post. Anyone passingly familiar with your insipidly idiotic ranting in this forum knows that you always take the opposing side to the US military, or the western military, in every stupid post you make. You defend any and all who poke at the US, usually making dubious claims along the way that forebode doom & gloom and never turn out to be correct.

Look on the bright side though. At least you are consistent. Consistently wrong. Keep it up though. It's always entertaining to see just how wrong you can be and your efforts at ignorance do not go unappreciated. It's apparent that you work really hard at it.

 

[Lemon law]

TLC saying "Look on the bright side though. At least you are consistent. Consistently wrong. Keep it up though. It's always entertaining to see just how wrong you can be and your efforts at ignorance do not go unappreciated. It's apparent that you work really hard at it." , is at best a case of the pot calling the Kettle Black.

Believe it or not TLC, you and I have the same end goals, I don't like the Taliban any better than you do, but we differ greatly on the means to get to the goals. And we do now know that your way of thinking is simply not getting the job done when each and every year we move backwards.

So we have a seven year track recording of knowing you are totally wrong, wrong, and wrong.

Why do you keep advocating failed methods, and then claim you are right? In case you have not noticed, that was the methodology of a fool called GWB who failed at everything he touched.

Smarter people adapt, you evidently do refuse to learn. The strategy of an Ostrich, stick head in hole in ground and go la la la with a redacted soon following.

 

[DainBramaged]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Change I can agree on. Obama was the only Dem candidate that had the right views on Afghanistan/Pakistan. Get out of Iraq and focus on the real problem area.

I completely agree. This is where we should have been all along.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: DainBramaged

Originally posted by: alchemize
Change I can agree on. Obama was the only Dem candidate that had the right views on Afghanistan/Pakistan. Get out of Iraq and focus on the real problem area.

I completely agree. This is where we should have been all along.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I happen to agree also, but where does it get us?

Basically back to finding new ways to win because what we tried before is not working.
The USA was able to invest far more resources into Vietnam, but with the wrong methods, we failed anyway.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
TLC saying "Look on the bright side though. At least you are consistent. Consistently wrong. Keep it up though. It's always entertaining to see just how wrong you can be and your efforts at ignorance do not go unappreciated. It's apparent that you work really hard at it." , is at best a case of the pot calling the Kettle Black.

Believe it or not TLC, you and I have the same end goals, I don't like the Taliban any better than you do, but we differ greatly on the means to get to the goals. And we do now know that your way of thinking is simply not getting the job done when each and every year we move backwards.

So we have a seven year track recording of knowing you are totally wrong, wrong, and wrong.

Why do you keep advocating failed methods, and then claim you are right? In case you have not noticed, that was the methodology of a fool called GWB who failed at everything he touched.

Smarter people adapt, you evidently do refuse to learn. The strategy of an Ostrich, stick head in hole in ground and go la la la with a redacted soon following.

All I brought up was the Taliban using civilians as human shields and placing those civilians in harm's way, an issue you've done your very best to side-step and avoid at all costs. I also pointed out a potential bias in the OP's article which should cause anyone with a modicum of rational and skeptical thinking to take pause. Other than that, I didn't advocate any methods or goals for our military, LL. But that's probably because you actually didn't read what I wrote and decided to go on one of your usual moronic rants where you have to make false representations and attributions of my statements as an excuse to vent your highly partisan hot air. Your replies generally revolve around strawmen and red herrings in your arguments though so I suppose I shouldn't expect anything more.

What's even more hilarious is that you claim to know what tactics - though you never mention what those tactics are - the military should use yet you've never been in the military yourself and don't have the first fucking clue how they operate. Military people in here that have been in Afghanistan have demonstrated how ignorant you are on the subject yet you continue to bull on, full steam ahead, with your usual form of tripe as if nobody caught on to your utter lack of knowledge on the subject in the first place.

Someday you'll learn that the only one in here drinking your kool-aid is you, LL. Obviously though, today is not that day.

 

[Lemon law]

Now TLC resorts to saying, "All I brought up was the Taliban using civilians as human shields and placing those civilians in harm's way,"

Which is only the strategy of almost every Gorilla insurgent movement in human history.

And then TLC tells the Afghans ""Don't get mad at the US military shooting. Get mad at the Taliban involving civilians in the first place. So should the Afghanis. "

When its quite apparent they do not think the way TLC thinks they should.

And then TLC swills the kool aid of saying, " Military people in here that have been in Afghanistan have demonstrated how ignorant you are"

When the last people we should be relying on are the people who brought us seven years of failure, while trying to implement a strategy will not work, and have shown a track record of being totally counterproductive.

And then when TLC has the gall to say, "But that's probably because you actually didn't read what I wrote."

TLC will probably claim its not really his own quotes that are being cited back at him.

Face the facts TLC, your views do not fit in Iraq, Afghanistan, Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon, or anywhere else in human history. Perspective change when you are in the middle of a shooting gallery and the only import of the USA is anarchy, corruption, and death. It did not work in Vietnam either, but maybe you want to consult some ex-Vietnamese US generals for how to win advice.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Now TLC resorts to saying, "All I brought up was the Taliban using civilians as human shields and placing those civilians in harm's way,"

Which is only the strategy of almost every Gorilla insurgent movement in human history.

Gorilla? You mean monkey-like?

I think the term you were looking for is guerilla. And no, it's not actually a traditonal guerilla strategy. That's just another example of you trying to pretend as if you know what you're talking about when you really don't. iow, talking out of your ass, one of your predilections.

And then TLC tells the Afghans ""Don't get mad at the US military shooting. Get mad at the Taliban involving civilians in the first place. So should the Afghanis. "

When its quite apparent they do not think the way TLC thinks they should.

Well no doubt LL believes that when someone puts them in harm's way, at their own behest, it's not really their fault. If a felon is at LL's house, at his invitation, and the police end up shooting LL, why, it's the fault of the police. It could never be due to LL's poor choice by making a stupid decision in the first place.

And then TLC swills the kool aid of saying, " Military people in here that have been in Afghanistan have demonstrated how ignorant you are"

When the last people we should be relying on are the people who brought us seven years of failure, while trying to implement a strategy will not work, and have shown a track record of being totally counterproductive.

There is no "7 years of failure" where Afghanistan is concerned. Let's get something clear right here and now, something you personally have never seemed to grasp in this place. YOU grandiosely making a claim does not make it true. It just means that, once again, you've been drinking so much of your own kool-aid that you seemingly believe the crap that comes from your keyboard to be fact.

Learn how to separate fact from rhetoric and hyperbole.

And then when TLC has the gall to say, "But that's probably because you actually didn't read what I wrote."

TLC will probably claim its not really his own quotes that are being cited back at him.

Face the facts TLC, your views do not fit in Iraq, Afghanistan, Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon, or anywhere else in human history. Perspective change when you are in the middle of a shooting gallery and the only import of the USA is anarchy, corruption, and death. It did not work in Vietnam either, but maybe you want to consult some ex-Vietnamese US generals for how to win advice.

The quotes you cited don't prove the baseless claims you made against me. The fact that you believe it does demonstrates once again that you're so drunk on your own BS that you can't see straight.

Give it up, LL. You really suck at this and your arrogant and pretensive prose doesn't do a thing to hide the plainly evident fact that you are a dumbass.

 

[Lemon law]

Delude on TLC in saying "There is no "7 years of failure" where Afghanistan is concerned. Let's get something clear right here and now, something you personally have never seemed to grasp in this place. YOU grandiosely making a claim does not make it true. It just means that, once again, you've been drinking so much of your own kool-aid that you seemingly believe the crap that comes from your keyboard to be fact."

I guess you think the last seven years have been a big success????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Try reading the Afghan and Pakistani poll results rather than swilling your own kool aid for a change. Or maybe you might care to read the original NYT link to see all your disconnect from reality.

Or maybe like Vietnam, you just will not believe we lost, until some rational President throws in the towel.

Even Petraeus is smart enough to say we can't kill our way out of the problem.

And we are going to have to wait and see if Obama and Petraeus institutes the smarter tactics it will take to win.

 

[palehorse]

For LL's benefit...

In Afghanistan, we need to:

1) Add at least 75k more NATO combat troops.

2) Multiply their infrastructure renewal dollars by a factor of 10, or more. Use the money for paved roads, communications, water wells, and agricultural/education reform -- simultaneously eradicating the opium industry.

3) Increase the op-tempo and effectiveness of the precision strikes against the Taliban/AQ logistical backbone in SW Afghanistan and NW Pakistan.

4) Increase cooperation and coordination with Afghan and Pakistani military forces to effectively conduct hammer-and-anvil operations against large groups of enemy who use the international border as a modern-day moat, and the Pakistani back-country as their unmolested training grounds.

5) Forcefully clean out corruption that is present throughout the entire Karzai administration -- down to the district level within each of the 34 Provinces.

6) Drop LL off in the hills of Waziristan, alone, so that he can witness the Taliban's evil firsthand, or join them. Whichever comes first...

As I see it, you cannot accuse me of supporting "seven years of failed ideas" when my "ideas" have never even been tried! I've been saying so for over a year now, but you just keep right one lying and ignoring my posts...

ps: GFY you arrogant twat. You've never served, or contributed, to mankind, in any way, shape, or form. I have dropped a few large deuces in my life that have ultimately done more for this world than you ever have, or ever will.

You're f'n worthless.