• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

US Marines assume control of Indianapolis

XMan

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,508
46
91
;) Tongue firmly in cheek for the thread title . . .

http://www.indystar.com/apps/p...7/LOCAL190501/71107011

Last night, Indy elected a political neophyte, and retired Marine Colonel, as it's new Mayor, Greg Ballard. The guy didn't even get support from the party until late in the race. Also, the City-County Council swung from majority Dem to majority Republican.

What does it mean in the larger scheme of things? Not sure, but locally, anyway, people were fed up with tax increases (something like nineteen in the last two years), rising property taxes, cuts in the size and efficacy of the police and fire department, and a growing crime problem. Ballard campaigned on cutting out wasteful spending, fixing the police and fire department, rooting out cronyism (former Mayor Peterson had something like 4-5 deputy mayors, all taking a six figure salary; the president of the City County Council held a six-figure job on the fire department but didn't report to anyone, stuff like that).

Of course, the incumbent didn't help his case by running a campaign ad claiming that Colonel Ballard lacked experience as a leader . . . LOL!

Party membership notwithstanding (a lot of Republican higher ups didn't bother to campaign for or support Ballard) but it definitely warmed my heart to see the electorate stand up for a change, instead of the same-old, same-old.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
22,841
4,286
136
Originally posted by: XMan


Of course, the incumbent didn't help his case by running a campaign ad claiming that Colonel Ballard lacked experience as a leader . . . LOL!
ROFLWaffles! What the hell were they thinking? Particularly while the U.S. Army runs a national recruitment commercial that sks something along the lines of "If asked during a job interview if you have leadership experience, try not to smile."

 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
2
0
Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Originally posted by: XMan


Of course, the incumbent didn't help his case by running a campaign ad claiming that Colonel Ballard lacked experience as a leader . . . LOL!
ROFLWaffles! What the hell were they thinking? Particularly while the U.S. Army runs a national recruitment commercial that sks something along the lines of "If asked during a job interview if you have leadership experience, try not to smile."
Sad eh? these are the types of mentally challenged folks we put on pedestals and give our tax dollars to
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Originally posted by: XMan


Of course, the incumbent didn't help his case by running a campaign ad claiming that Colonel Ballard lacked experience as a leader . . . LOL!
ROFLWaffles! What the hell were they thinking? Particularly while the U.S. Army runs a national recruitment commercial that sks something along the lines of "If asked during a job interview if you have leadership experience, try not to smile."
Sad eh? these are the types of mentally challenged folks we put on pedestals and give our tax dollars to
whoa.. what?! Are you ignorant, or just in denial of the fact that senior military officers are some of the most experience leaders in our country?

Ballard campaigned on cutting out wasteful spending, fixing the police and fire department, rooting out cronyism
Sounds like a great platform to me! "mentally challenged"?! I think not...
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
2
0
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Originally posted by: XMan


Of course, the incumbent didn't help his case by running a campaign ad claiming that Colonel Ballard lacked experience as a leader . . . LOL!
ROFLWaffles! What the hell were they thinking? Particularly while the U.S. Army runs a national recruitment commercial that sks something along the lines of "If asked during a job interview if you have leadership experience, try not to smile."
Sad eh? these are the types of mentally challenged folks we put on pedestals and give our tax dollars to
whoa.. what?! Are you ignorant, or just in denial of the fact that senior military officers are some of the most experience leaders in our country?

Ballard campaigned on cutting out wasteful spending, fixing the police and fire department, rooting out cronyism
Sounds like a great platform to me! "mentally challenged"?! I think not...

Huh :confused: I am talking about the dumbass Democrat who said the Republican didn't have leadership skills... Was my typing that incoherent?
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Originally posted by: XMan


Of course, the incumbent didn't help his case by running a campaign ad claiming that Colonel Ballard lacked experience as a leader . . . LOL!
ROFLWaffles! What the hell were they thinking? Particularly while the U.S. Army runs a national recruitment commercial that sks something along the lines of "If asked during a job interview if you have leadership experience, try not to smile."
Sad eh? these are the types of mentally challenged folks we put on pedestals and give our tax dollars to
whoa.. what?! Are you ignorant, or just in denial of the fact that senior military officers are some of the most experience leaders in our country?

Ballard campaigned on cutting out wasteful spending, fixing the police and fire department, rooting out cronyism
Sounds like a great platform to me! "mentally challenged"?! I think not...

Huh :confused: I am talking about the dumbass Democrat who said the Republican didn't have leadership skills... Was my typing that incoherent?
As usual, yes. :p
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Originally posted by: XMan


Of course, the incumbent didn't help his case by running a campaign ad claiming that Colonel Ballard lacked experience as a leader . . . LOL!
ROFLWaffles! What the hell were they thinking? Particularly while the U.S. Army runs a national recruitment commercial that sks something along the lines of "If asked during a job interview if you have leadership experience, try not to smile."
Sad eh? these are the types of mentally challenged folks we put on pedestals and give our tax dollars to
whoa.. what?! Are you ignorant, or just in denial of the fact that senior military officers are some of the most experience leaders in our country?

Ballard campaigned on cutting out wasteful spending, fixing the police and fire department, rooting out cronyism
Sounds like a great platform to me! "mentally challenged"?! I think not...

Huh :confused: I am talking about the dumbass Democrat who said the Republican didn't have leadership skills... Was my typing that incoherent?
ok, i apologize... I thought you were referring to the military commercials...

my bad! sorry!
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
2
0
no problem.. and I agree with CPA :D Pot killed my Writing Composition classes :laugh:
 

heyheybooboo

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2007
6,278
0
0
I thinky you guys are missing the point. It's not Dem/Rep. It's not the Colonel.

Indy has some serious consolidation/merger issues. They have infrastructure problems. They have to replace the Dome. They have changed their form of gov't.

And it appears that the Colonel got elected by . . .

"I wholeheartedly support eliminating property taxes in Indiana and replacing them with a mix of income, corporate and sales taxes. . . . Regardless of any finance system we end up using, we must fundamentally reform local government spending, or else we will fail to address the root causes of this tax crisis: spending."
He's in for a rough ride. Consolidation of local/county gov't functions sounds great - on paper. But you end up with a huge unwielding mess with access to decision makers moved even further away from the people - not a good thing on the local level.

I know some of you are going to love this one but local gov't is about service - and that takes people. It's easy to say you are going to cut spending and hire more cops but as a practical matter you can only squeeze out so much.

Cut back 5% on . . . ??? . . . garbage collection? fire department? water/wastewater treatment? street repair? recreation? schools? landfills? courts? jails? And eliminating property taxes - most likely their greatest source of revenue - replaced by income taxes???

The Colonel may have to call in the Marines!
 

XMan

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,508
46
91
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
I thinky you guys are missing the point. It's not Dem/Rep. It's not the Colonel.

Indy has some serious consolidation/merger issues. They have infrastructure problems. They have to replace the Dome. They have changed their form of gov't.

And it appears that the Colonel got elected by . . .

"I wholeheartedly support eliminating property taxes in Indiana and replacing them with a mix of income, corporate and sales taxes. . . . Regardless of any finance system we end up using, we must fundamentally reform local government spending, or else we will fail to address the root causes of this tax crisis: spending."
He's in for a rough ride. Consolidation of local/county gov't functions sounds great - on paper. But you end up with a huge unwielding mess with access to decision makers moved even further away from the people - not a good thing on the local level.

I know some of you are going to love this one but local gov't is about service - and that takes people. It's easy to say you are going to cut spending and hire more cops but as a practical matter you can only squeeze out so much.

Cut back 5% on . . . ??? . . . garbage collection? fire department? water/wastewater treatment? street repair? recreation? schools? landfills? courts? jails? And eliminating property taxes - most likely their greatest source of revenue - replaced by income taxes???

The Colonel may have to call in the Marines!
Don't forget a half dozen deputy mayors making 100K a year each, a City Council President making 100K from the fire department doing something undefine, and IIRC, three county human resource departments. They can cut a lot of fluff out without harming service easily. IIRC there is a line in the budget "Other Services and Sundries" to the tune of $390 million, and there's no firm explanation as to just what that entails.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
Don't get your Republican ego's up, the Indy dimocrats have the answer. As soon as Julia Carson gets out of the hospital, we will sic the cat in the hat on Gregg Ballard.

The Bart Petersen had won quite a few terms, he was fairly popular, but really got killed over the property tax issue. The Republican Gov, Mitch Daniels somewhat defused the property tax crisis by kicking the can one year down the road, but no one in Indiana trusts Mitch anymore. When property taxes doubled and tripled this year in Marion County,
the voters took their anger out on Bart as the only visible target.

I fully expect Ballard to flop flatter than a pancake in less than a year. He has made his promises, delivering on them is going to be impossible in Marion County. Trust me, I know, I have been watching those folks chew up idiots for breakfast all my life.
 

XMan

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,508
46
91
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Don't get your Republican ego's up, the Indy dimocrats have the answer. As soon as Julia Carson gets out of the hospital, we will sic the cat in the hat on Gregg Ballard.

The Bart Petersen had won quite a few terms, he was fairly popular, but really got killed over the property tax issue. The Republican Gov, Mitch Daniels somewhat defused the property tax crisis by kicking the can one year down the road, but no one in Indiana trusts Mitch anymore. When property taxes doubled and tripled this year in Marion County,
the voters took their anger out on Bart as the only visible target.

I fully expect Ballard to flop flatter than a pancake in less than a year. He has made his promises, delivering on them is going to be impossible in Marion County. Trust me, I know, I have been watching those folks chew up idiots for breakfast all my life.
No offense, but it sounds like you're rooting for Ballard to fail.

If nothing else, the police department needs to be fixed or the crime rate is going to continue going up. The IMPD was pretty well disgusted with Peterson. If Ballard can improve morale and help the cops do their jobs he'll be a success.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
Xman accuses--------No offense, but it sounds like you're rooting for Ballard to fail.

I am not rooting for it, I am simply saying he will fail. Ballard may be incredibly popular with the McMansions folks, but when he tries to shift the tax burden for their Mc Mansions into regressive taxes that impact everyone, pragmatic hoosiers will say nyet. Thank God I don't live in Marion County
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: XMan
No offense, but it sounds like you're rooting for Ballard to fail.
That's the standard Leftist MO...
And the standard right wing wacko MO is to put the best possible face on things as their hero's
flop like ineffectually, visibly, and actively flailing around bugs stuck through with a pin. With the other end of the pin stuck into a board.

All six legs are beating feet fast while the bug goes nowhere.

Whats to know here, Ballard, a political outsider is going to try to sell a radical overhaul of the entire tax structure to a very conservative group of newbie city councilmen. Asking them to pass a large number of regressive taxes that will bite everyone before he can even talk about
reducing property taxes largely set by state regulations Ballard is powerless to alter.

While the rest of the State does other totally different things.
 

heyheybooboo

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2007
6,278
0
0
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: XMan
No offense, but it sounds like you're rooting for Ballard to fail.
That's the standard Leftist MO...
Local politics should be non-partisan, issue-oriented and realistic. Colonel Ballard might have gone a bit far out on the limb for his own good.

I'll bet a nickel to all takers that the total cuts he eventually proposes will be less than the budget increases for the IMPD. The cuts will probably not exceed the increase in gasoline costs in the PD for next year!

Personnel-wise I'm guessing the IPS and IMPD comprise the majority of public employees. Are 5% of school system employees going to be cut? I doubt it. So cutting 5% of all personnel effectively means cutting 10% of all employees in each remaining City/County department.

Such cuts mean a substantial reduction in service levels!

Where yah gonna cut? garbage collection? fire department? water/wastewater treatment? street repair? recreation? schools? landfills? courts? jails? capital outlay? major infrastructure? deferred maintenance?

I'll bet another nickel that library hours won't even be cut! :D



 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,872
4,214
126
Hell, let someone who isn't a big part of either machine have a chance. Who could possibly screw Indy up more? He's going to face a learning curve, and find out what works and what doesn't, but I think it less likely that he's to be looking for political pork in his bank account than many others, and he doesn't have 20 years "experience" at owing people favors.
 

XMan

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,508
46
91
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Hell, let someone who isn't a big part of either machine have a chance. Who could possibly screw Indy up more? He's going to face a learning curve, and find out what works and what doesn't, but I think it less likely that he's to be looking for political pork in his bank account than many others, and he doesn't have 20 years "experience" at owing people favors.
Exactly. It's not like Indianapolis can get much work, and Peterson had eight years to try and make things better. Now it's Colonel Ballard's turn.

And again, I'll reiterate - I think most of the cuts are going to come from extraneous personnel. Ballard has talked about the deputy mayors, multiple public safety directors, and HR department in triplicate all throughout the campaign. It will be interesting to see just how much waste there is in the city budget - Ballard has pledged to open the books and not to lock the public out of council meetings, as happened recently.

Heck, if he gets rid of Monroe Grey's 100K fire department salary he can hire two additional cops right there . . .
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
I thinky you guys are missing the point. It's not Dem/Rep. It's not the Colonel.

Indy has some serious consolidation/merger issues. They have infrastructure problems. They have to replace the Dome. They have changed their form of gov't.
The infrastructure of Indy is far better than any other large city I've spent time in. After they finally finish "Super-70" going through town, it will have probably the best traffic flow as well (close to it even with I-70 closed through downtown). The new stadium is pretty close to done, at least on the exterior. I don't think these are really the problems facing the city.
He's in for a rough ride. Consolidation of local/county gov't functions sounds great - on paper. But you end up with a huge unwielding mess with access to decision makers moved even further away from the people - not a good thing on the local level.
Indianapolis is Marion county - why do they need two governments? If anything, this decreases the number of politicians running the show and gives greater accountability.
I know some of you are going to love this one but local gov't is about service - and that takes people. It's easy to say you are going to cut spending and hire more cops but as a practical matter you can only squeeze out so much.

Cut back 5% on . . . ??? . . . garbage collection? fire department? water/wastewater treatment? street repair? recreation? schools? landfills? courts? jails? And eliminating property taxes - most likely their greatest source of revenue - replaced by income taxes???

The Colonel may have to call in the Marines!
Obviously you're not familiar with the recent shenanigans involving property taxes in Indiana, which have gone up by hundreds of percent overnight for many people (including my parents, who just moved into a smaller home to retire only to have the taxes jump by 300%). This is the reason it's such a big issue right now.
 

heyheybooboo

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2007
6,278
0
0
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
I thinky you guys are missing the point. It's not Dem/Rep. It's not the Colonel.

Indy has some serious consolidation/merger issues. They have infrastructure problems. They have to replace the Dome. They have changed their form of gov't.
The infrastructure of Indy is far better than any other large city I've spent time in. After they finally finish "Super-70" going through town, it will have probably the best traffic flow as well (close to it even with I-70 closed through downtown). The new stadium is pretty close to done, at least on the exterior. I don't think these are really the problems facing the city.
He's in for a rough ride. Consolidation of local/county gov't functions sounds great - on paper. But you end up with a huge unwielding mess with access to decision makers moved even further away from the people - not a good thing on the local level.
Indianapolis is Marion county - why do they need two governments? If anything, this decreases the number of politicians running the show and gives greater accountability.
I know some of you are going to love this one but local gov't is about service - and that takes people. It's easy to say you are going to cut spending and hire more cops but as a practical matter you can only squeeze out so much.

Cut back 5% on . . . ??? . . . garbage collection? fire department? water/wastewater treatment? street repair? recreation? schools? landfills? courts? jails? And eliminating property taxes - most likely their greatest source of revenue - replaced by income taxes???

The Colonel may have to call in the Marines!
Obviously you're not familiar with the recent shenanigans involving property taxes in Indiana, which have gone up by hundreds of percent overnight for many people (including my parents, who just moved into a smaller home to retire only to have the taxes jump by 300%). This is the reason it's such a big issue right now.

The new stadium is pretty close to done, at least on the exterior. I don't think these are really the problems facing the city
Maybe that's why debt service is up 40% in the last 3 years :D

Indianapolis is Marion county - why do they need two governments? If anything, this decreases the number of politicians running the show and gives greater accountability.
As I understand it there were nearly 40 individual taxing authorities in Marion County. I don't know how many are left after 'merger' but it is my understanding that some townships still retain taxing authority. And while it's great that there are fewer "politicians running the show" there are now 30 elected officials in charge - and I'm assuming that 'consolidation' means 'centralization' so trust me, that will not mean 'greater accountability'.

Obviously you're not familiar with the recent shenanigans involving property taxes in Indiana, which have gone up by hundreds of percent overnight for many people (including my parents, who just moved into a smaller home to retire only to have the taxes jump by 300%). This is the reason it's such a big issue right now
When you consolidate nearly 40 taxing authorities, taxes are going up. If they moved to an outlying township that was 'merged' of course their taxes were going up.

It is also my understanding that the state Supreme Court mandated market value-based reassessment of property because land and buildings were ?underassessed relative to market value?. In the past few years Indiana became one of the last states to adopt market value based standards for real property assessment. Welcome to the 21st century! :D

I understand it's a big issue and I don't want to take sides - I'm just trying to inject reality


 

ASK THE COMMUNITY