US Marine investigated for war crimes after newspaper interview

[Alistar7]

Covarrubias told the daily he ordered the man to stop and to turn around. "I went behind him and shot him in the back of the head -- twice," he was quoted as saying.

If that's true they should courtmarshall him, discharge him dishonorably, take away his citizenship, and extradite him to Iraq's new govt to be tried as a war criminal there.
Totally unacceptable.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
Covarrubias told the daily he ordered the man to stop and to turn around. "I went behind him and shot him in the back of the head -- twice," he was quoted as saying.

If that's true they should courtmarshall him, discharge him dishonorably, take away his citizenship, and extradite him to Iraq's new govt to be tried as a war criminal there.
Totally unacceptable.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
Covarrubias told the daily he ordered the man to stop and to turn around. "I went behind him and shot him in the back of the head -- twice," he was quoted as saying.

If that's true they should courtmarshall him, discharge him dishonorably, take away his citizenship, and extradite him to Iraq's new govt to be tried as a war criminal there.
Totally unacceptable.

Why is this any different then a scud missile hitting a building that houses soldiers? I don't believe their can be crimes in a war when your sole goal is to kill the opposition by any means possible.

 

[Alistar7]

The man surrendered. Any means possible is not the goal, the goal is to set certain restrictions. Sure, more were violated against our forces, but every act is just as despicable.

That man may have only been fighting because his children were being held hostage, or he could have been a Syrian there for the cause. The point is he was defenseless and had surrendered. Then shot in the back of the head. You don't see the immorality in that action in the chain of events?

 

[BarneyFife]

Where does it say the man surrendered?

 

[Alistar7]

Covarrubias told the daily he ordered the man to stop and to turn around. "I went behind him and shot him in the back of the head -- twice," he was quoted as saying.


Covarrubias said he noticed another Iraqi soldier trying to escape and also shot him, then grabbed their identification cards, a rifle and one of their berets for souvenirs.

The one that ran he had every right to shoot. You think the other guy just sat there with a ROCKET LAUNCHER, did nothing but let the ARMED ENEMY walk up DIRECTLY BEHIND him and shoot him as part of his BATTLE TACTICS?

remember my first post...

"If that's true they should courtmarshall him, discharge him dishonorably, take away his citizenship, and extradite him to Iraq's new govt to be tried as a war criminal there.
Totally unacceptable."

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Covarrubias said he noticed another Iraqi soldier trying to escape and also shot him, then grabbed their identification cards, a rifle and one of their berets for souvenirs.

The one that ran he had every right to shoot. [\q]

I don't know, would you stick around after seeing your comrade get shot twice in the back of the head?

 

[BarneyFife]

The fault in your logic is that you are assuming he surrendered. This isn't cops. You are in a life or death struggle and the last thing I'd want to do is say "Put your hands up" to a guy that tried to kill me earlier in the day. Remember what happened earlier in the war when some Iraqis acted like they were going to surrender and then started firing at the last second. You really have to put yourself in his shoes with all of the stress of walking onto landmines, people sniping at you etc.. What he did should not be a war crime. But back to my original point, how do you feel about jets dropping 2000 lb bombs on army barracks when they are sleeping? I really don't see any difference. Both are blind side attacks and impossible for the victim to ever surrender.

 

[Alistar7]

There is no fault in my logic, how many boxers ever turn their back on their opponent?

Good point, lil, although by running AWAY he exposed the back of his head for that coward. Of course if he ran at him or even turned to face him one might think he was trying to engage... I always turn my back at someone I am at war with and who has a weapon pointed at me too.

 

[Alistar7]

Barney we did not bomb any soldeirs in Iraq without giving them time to surrender, over 50 million leaflets were dropped on them telling them how to ensure they would not be fired upon. We used radio to do the same. Everyone of their lives could have been spared by Saddam stepping down, if only temporarily for the UN to inspect unfettered, if he was telling the truth fine, welocme back.

Why would he turn his back on the enemy or not turn to engage him?

 

[Alistar7]

double post, doh

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
The fault in your logic is that you are assuming he surrendered. This isn't cops. You are in a life or death struggle and the last thing I'd want to do is say "Put your hands up" to a guy that tried to kill me earlier in the day. Remember what happened earlier in the war when some Iraqis acted like they were going to surrender and then started firing at the last second. You really have to put yourself in his shoes with all of the stress of walking onto landmines, people sniping at you etc.. What he did should not be a war crime. But back to my original point, how do you feel about jets dropping 2000 lb bombs on army barracks when they are sleeping? I really don't see any difference. Both are blind side attacks and impossible for the victim to ever surrender.

Yeah, but he said he went looking for the people who attacked him and happened on a soldier with an RPG. I could not figure if he even knew those were the guys who shot at him or just wanted to exact revenge. Besides, what was the guy going to do, shoot him with an RPG? I don't think either would have survived that, but who knows. As for being nervous of surrendering Iraqi's, from what I gathered, those soldiers who pretended to surrender and then opened fire did so from a distance. This guy was point blank. And then to be stupid enough to brag about it, this guy is an idiot, and like Alistair said, if he is guilty, he should be dealt with under the harshest terms possible.

 

[BarneyFife]

A different thought popped into my head. I've known people in the military and have never heard of them bragging about killing people. I think he probably made the whole thing up. This story does sound too good to be true. I don't think there are any witnesses that can back up his story either.

 

[Alistar7]

revenge

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
A different thought popped into my head. I've known people in the military and have never heard of them bragging about killing people. I think he probably made the whole thing up. This story does sound too good to be true. I don't think there are any witnesses that can back up his story either.

It seemed like a bit of BS and bravado to me as well. Small town, make yourself out to be some Rambo. If that's the case this guy is ignorant beyond belief, he wanted some attention for his "heroics", he'll get that and what he deserves.

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
A different thought popped into my head. I've known people in the military and have never heard of them bragging about killing people. I think he probably made the whole thing up. This story does sound too good to be true. I don't think there are any witnesses that can back up his story either.

Well, if he's that stupid, he's going to have to be the one to proove it was BS. I don't think people are just going to be like "Ok, he pulled a fast one on us" and keep quiet, their going to want proof that it never happend. How he's going to do that, I don't know, but if anyone was ever hoisted by their own petard, it's this dumbass.

 

[Nitemare]

Isn't firing under a white flag a war crime?..... No?

How bout using a pregnant woman as a suicide bomber?..... No?

Using a van full of women and children as sacrificial goats to run a roadblock?...... No?

How bout firing flares into a weapons compound and killing half a dozen of your own people?.... still No?

How bout using a religious building as a shield when firing on American troops?...... No?

How bout taking potshots at troops from a crowd of protestors and then getting your on countrymen and women killed because you are a coward when they American troops fire back?.... No?

How about doing it again and getting more of your people killed?.... No?

How about throwing hand grenades at them for them trying to kill you after you tried and kill them?...No?

How about executing American troops?....No?

How about torturing them first and then killing them?....Still no?

How about raping and torturing a woman from Desert Storm?....No?

How about keeping a POW from Desert Storm and doing god knows what with him?.....I guess that would be no as well.



If this marine was the only one that committed any retaliation then we are the most forgiving country on this damned planet.

 

[alchemize]

Isn't firing under a white flag a war crime?..... No?

Hmm not sure...probably not. But it certainly wouldn't be a war crime to then return fire and kill all of them.

How bout using a pregnant woman as a suicide bomber?..... No?

Non-combatant, terrorism rules apply.

Using a van full of women and children as sacrificial goats to run a roadblock?...... No?

See above

How bout firing flares into a weapons compound and killing half a dozen of your own people?.... still No?

Yes, war crime.

How bout using a religious building as a shield when firing on American troops?...... No?

No, not a war crime. Just cowardly.

How bout taking potshots at troops from a crowd of protestors and then getting your on countrymen and women killed because you are a coward when they American troops fire back?.... No?

See non-combatant rules.

How about doing it again and getting more of your people killed?.... No?

See above

How about throwing hand grenades at them for them trying to kill you after you tried and kill them?...No?

Not a war crime. Doesn't make sense.

How about executing American troops?....No?

Yes, a war crime.

How about torturing them first and then killing them?....Still no?

Yes, a war crime

How about raping and torturing a woman from Desert Storm?....No?

Yes, a war crime.

How about keeping a POW from Desert Storm and doing god knows what with him?.....I guess that would be no as well.

Yes, a war crime.

If this marine was the only one that committed any retaliation then we are the most forgiving country on this damned planet,

We are that, aren't we.

But all of the above don't justify shooting a soldier if he has surrendered. Depends on the circumstances also. Did he still have his weapon in his hands, or were his hands on top of his head?

The escaping soldier...did he still have his weapon? Retreating soldiers are fair game.

It all depends on the circumstances, but it doesn't sound like this guy behaved appropriately.

 

[csiro]

Covarrubias said he noticed another Iraqi soldier trying to escape and also shot him, then grabbed their identification cards, a rifle and one of their berets for souvenirs.

I think if I was the 2nd Iraqi soldier, I would be running away too after seeing my friend shot at the back of the head after being ordered to turn around. The Marine should have just taken them in as POWs IF he had the opportunity to do so.

 

[mastertech01]

If its true, it is a war crime and he will be prosecuted. It may very well have been bragging from someone who didnt see any action at all too. Either way he couldnt have more brains than can be found in a can of vegetable soup.

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Isn't firing under a white flag a war crime?..... No?

Hmm not sure...probably not. But it certainly wouldn't be a war crime to then return fire and kill all of them.

How bout using a pregnant woman as a suicide bomber?..... No?

Non-combatant, terrorism rules apply.

Using a van full of women and children as sacrificial goats to run a roadblock?...... No?

See above

How bout firing flares into a weapons compound and killing half a dozen of your own people?.... still No?

Yes, war crime.

How bout using a religious building as a shield when firing on American troops?...... No?

No, not a war crime. Just cowardly.

How bout taking potshots at troops from a crowd of protestors and then getting your on countrymen and women killed because you are a coward when they American troops fire back?.... No?

See non-combatant rules.

How about doing it again and getting more of your people killed?.... No?

See above

How about throwing hand grenades at them for them trying to kill you after you tried and kill them?...No?

Not a war crime. Doesn't make sense.

How about executing American troops?....No?

Yes, a war crime.

How about torturing them first and then killing them?....Still no?

Yes, a war crime

How about raping and torturing a woman from Desert Storm?....No?

Yes, a war crime.

How about keeping a POW from Desert Storm and doing god knows what with him?.....I guess that would be no as well.

Yes, a war crime.

If this marine was the only one that committed any retaliation then we are the most forgiving country on this damned planet,

We are that, aren't we.

But all of the above don't justify shooting a soldier if he has surrendered. Depends on the circumstances also. Did he still have his weapon in his hands, or were his hands on top of his head?

The escaping soldier...did he still have his weapon? Retreating soldiers are fair game.

It all depends on the circumstances, but it doesn't sound like this guy behaved appropriately.

Besides, if the people who perpatrated war crimes on the Iraqi side are caught, who said anything about not prosecuting them for war crimes? This guy's acts are indefensible, even if it was all BS, it just shows what a sick mind he has for bragging about it, as though he would be hailed as some sort of a hero.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce

Originally posted by: alchemize

<Snip>
Besides, if the people who perpatrated war crimes on the Iraqi side are caught, who said anything about not prosecuting them for war crimes? This guy's acts are indefensible, even if it was all BS, it just shows what a sick mind he has for bragging about it, as though he would be hailed as some sort of a hero.

This is an odd thing. LBBI and I agree. Cats and Dogs sleeping together.

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce

Originally posted by: alchemize

<Snip>
Besides, if the people who perpatrated war crimes on the Iraqi side are caught, who said anything about not prosecuting them for war crimes? This guy's acts are indefensible, even if it was all BS, it just shows what a sick mind he has for bragging about it, as though he would be hailed as some sort of a hero.

This is an odd thing. LBBI and I agree. Cats and Dogs sleeping together.

Hell has frozen over

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Isn't firing under a white flag a war crime?..... No?

How bout using a pregnant woman as a suicide bomber?..... No?

Using a van full of women and children as sacrificial goats to run a roadblock?...... No?

How bout firing flares into a weapons compound and killing half a dozen of your own people?.... still No?

How bout using a religious building as a shield when firing on American troops?...... No?

How bout taking potshots at troops from a crowd of protestors and then getting your on countrymen and women killed because you are a coward when they American troops fire back?.... No?

How about doing it again and getting more of your people killed?.... No?

How about throwing hand grenades at them for them trying to kill you after you tried and kill them?...No?

How about executing American troops?....No?

How about torturing them first and then killing them?....Still no?

How about raping and torturing a woman from Desert Storm?....No?

How about keeping a POW from Desert Storm and doing god knows what with him?.....I guess that would be no as well.



If this marine was the only one that committed any retaliation then we are the most forgiving country on this damned planet.

Those are all war crimes, any individuals, US or otherwise, found to have committed acts such as those will be prosecuted as a war criminal. If we found one Iraqi soldier who committed one of those acts you listed above should we go lightly on him as well? What about if he only executed one American?

 

[dahunan]

I think a big queston is ... if you were a serviceperson and witnessed this then what would you have done? I'm thinking right now that I may have shot him in the leg and then taken him into custody for criminal charges/action. That boy had something eating away at his brain and needed to be stopped.