US jury finds National Assn of Realtors liable for artificially inflating commissions, awards $1.78B damages

[JEDI]

US jury finds realtors liable for inflating commissions, awards $1.78 bln damages

A U.S. jury on Tuesday found the National Association of Realtors and some residential brokerages, including units of Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway , liable to pay $1.78 billion in damages for conspiring to artificially inflate commissions for home sales.

www.reuters.com

The verdict followed a two-week trial, and the damages award can be tripled under U.S. antitrust law to more than $5.3 billion.


Sweet!
Now hopefully those 6% fees drop to near 0%!
Let competition reign!

Also, They plan to appeal but ReMax settled out of court for $55M and Anywhere Real Estate (HOUS.N), whose brands include Century 21, Coldwell Banker and Corcoran, settled for $83.5m (both before trial).

So at least two major realtor companies knew what they were doing was wrong

 

[IronWing]

Good. Real estate agents are the Price is Right models of the real estate market, totally superfluous.

 

[RPD]

Good. Real estate agents are the Price is Right models of the real estate market, totally superfluous.

Ehh, I'd say that belongs more to the entire appraisal side of it. A good real estate agent I have no issues with them making money.

 

[Pohemi]

Ehh, I'd say that belongs more to the entire appraisal side of it. A good real estate agent I have no issues with them making money.

The appraisal process is probably more complicated and drawn-out than it needs to be, but an appraisal is practically necessary during a sale...a real estate agent is not. Some agents are good at their job and actually work/hustle for their income, but some are just there to show their face and take a cut of the sale.

 

[RPD]

The appraisal process is probably more complicated and drawn-out than it needs to be, but an appraisal is practically necessary during a sale...a real estate agent is not. Some agents are good at their job and actually work/hustle for their income, but some are just there to show their face and take a cut of the sale.

In my experience the appraisals are a joke. Magically they always come in around or at the asking price. every. single. time.
If you are using an agent that's there to show their face, thats on you.

 

[Torn Mind]

Seems like something realtors would do....

If anything...the negative portrayal of realtors is accurate and deserved. If you sucuumb to their overtures...you have been preyed upon.

 

[Torn Mind]

Ehh, I'd say that belongs more to the entire appraisal side of it. A good real estate agent I have no issues with them making money.

They often graduated to "code inspector" and then collaborate with the local government attorneys on how to use the law to make money for the government, often with income discriminatory intent(which may not necessarily be a bad thing, but the they are hunters).

 

[MrSquished]

Good for them. As someone in the industry that works his butt off, I support ending corruption in real estate and any industry.

I find it funny the people that think all realtors are useless. You should see the people we have to navigate through what is likely the biggest purchase or sale of their life, or one of them. People are fucking idiots. And I mean smart successful people too. Great at their line of work and other things, but are insane when it comes to a sale or purchase. A good realtor is worth it. A shitty realtor, well of course, they aren't worth shit.

 

[MrSquished]

US jury finds realtors liable for inflating commissions, awards $1.78 bln damages

A U.S. jury on Tuesday found the National Association of Realtors and some residential brokerages, including units of Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway , liable to pay $1.78 billion in damages for conspiring to artificially inflate commissions for home sales.

www.reuters.com

The verdict followed a two-week trial, and the damages award can be tripled under U.S. antitrust law to more than $5.3 billion.


Sweet!
Now hopefully those 6% fees drop to near 0%!
Let competition reign!

Also, They plan to appeal but ReMax settled out of court for $55M and Anywhere Real Estate (HOUS.N), whose brands include Century 21, Coldwell Banker and Corcoran, settled for $83.5m (both before trial).

So at least two major realtor companies knew what they were doing was wrong

Also I don't know who's paying 6% fees cuz I don't know about them. Discount brokers are all over the place charging 4% some even do 3%, though that's more rare. We charge 5-4%,, split about the middle. I haven't asked for a 6% commission in a while.


For a bit I believe what everyone said,real estate agents were just door openers, until I actually started doing it full time and busting my ass for clients.

Mon-Fri 730am role play on zoom. After, get ready go to the office, except on Fridays. Make calls and follow ups for at least four hours and then mix up calls and doing whatever clients need. Make more calls and also network with other agents.

Then it's all in person stuff, whether listing appointments, showing buyers homes, rentals, dealing with landlords, and always responding to texts and emails and answer any number that rings your phone, because it could be business.

Of course you work a lot for clients where deals never go through. Mortgages fall through all the time home inspections cause deals to fall apart . Just plain old jittery people make deals fall apart .

You see $0 for any of the time. Commissions don't just pay us for deals that go through, but deals the don't.

I sold two investment properties, small ones, in the same building this year, without ever meeting the sellers. I prospected them on the phone, I handled so much of the transactions, with the lawyer and on the ground. I've had a couple lawyers be like I could not deal with these people as much as you do. Same with stagers and photographers say the same shit.

Both people I sold those investment properties were like dude we barely had to do shit or figure things out, you were on top of everything. Will 100% refer you out.

If they ever have business to refer I know I'll get it.

There are shitty plumbers shitty real estate agents shitty carpenters shitty doctor shitty lawyers shitty programmers shitty everything. Like any job if you do it well, You are earning every penny.

 

[Pohemi]

Some agents are good at their job and actually work/hustle for their income, but some are just there to show their face and take a cut of the sale.

Kudos for being one of the good ones that actually hustle to earn their clients and commissions. I know more like you exist, I've heard stories of excellent agents. Didn't mean to give the impression that I believe the entire field is pointless...only that having one working for you isn't required to buy a home or property.

Of course you work a lot for clients where deals never go through. Mortgages fall through all the time home inspections cause deals to fall apart . Just plain old jittery people make deals fall apart .

You see $0 for any of the time. Commissions don't just pay us for deals that go through, but deals the don't.

This is what I empathize with realtors for. I've spoken to other agents who explained this, and it changed my viewpoint on the work that you do (sometimes for nothing). I'd have a hard time dealing with that kind of frustration.

 

[Torn Mind]

This is what I empathize with realtors for. I've spoken to other agents who explained this, and it changed my viewpoint on the work that you do (sometimes for nothing). I'd have a hard time dealing with that kind of frustration.

Probably the only thing they deserve a little sympathy for.

But otherwise, the people who get into the business are basically quasi-psychopaths(the term psycopath triggers emotional responses not reflective of actual psychopathy. They are not "psycho" in the sense they are out of control).

Usually, the humans are
very convincing commnicators
who don't back up their words or act in bad faith when the commnication is taken in context.
No remorse or the conscience is ignored.

Laypeople are discourage to think "inbetween in the lines" or alternative theories. So when some realtor is trying to sell some mediocre location, they're with "positive words" that actually mean low grade. It's actually the same with beef, with Prime, Choice, Select. They all sound good.

My mom and I actually experience a walking caricuature of a realtor. Chinese woman, neighbor's sister, didn't buy a house, but other things.
One, offered up some phantom Vietnamese family for rent.
Both no showed without commnication
Said he just didn't remember.
Not sense of remorse.

Next thing she did was want my mom to "rep" her in a court case by going to Frederick, MD for a case. ...we're not attorneys, don't know the details, and my mom isn't an speaker. WTF. There never was a relationship because all she was is a neighbors relative.

I hold this person in utter contempt and hatred.

 

[MrSquished]

Probably the only thing they deserve a little sympathy for.

But otherwise, the people who get into the business are basically quasi-psychopaths(the term psycopath triggers emotional responses not reflective of actual psychopathy. They are not "psycho" in the sense they are out of control).

Usually, the humans are
very convincing commnicators
who don't back up their words or act in bad faith when the commnication is taken in context.
No remorse or the conscience is ignored.

Laypeople are discourage to think "inbetween in the lines" or alternative theories. So when some realtor is trying to sell some mediocre location, they're with "positive words" that actually mean low grade. It's actually the same with beef, with Prime, Choice, Select. They all sound good.

My mom and I actually experience a walking caricuature of a realtor. Chinese woman, neighbor's sister, didn't buy a house, but other things.
One, offered up some phantom Vietnamese family for rent.
Both no showed without commnication
Said he just didn't remember.
Not sense of remorse.

Next thing she did was want my mom to "rep" her in a court case by going to Frederick, MD for a case. ...we're not attorneys, don't know the details, and my mom isn't an speaker. WTF. There never was a relationship because all she was is a neighbors relative.

I hold this person in utter contempt and hatred.

Have a can of sardines and some impossible beef. You'll feel better.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Probably the only thing they deserve a little sympathy for.

But otherwise, the people who get into the business are basically quasi-psychopaths(the term psycopath triggers emotional responses not reflective of actual psychopathy. They are not "psycho" in the sense they are out of control).

Usually, the humans are
very convincing commnicators
who don't back up their words or act in bad faith when the commnication is taken in context.
No remorse or the conscience is ignored.

Laypeople are discourage to think "inbetween in the lines" or alternative theories. So when some realtor is trying to sell some mediocre location, they're with "positive words" that actually mean low grade. It's actually the same with beef, with Prime, Choice, Select. They all sound good.

My mom and I actually experience a walking caricuature of a realtor. Chinese woman, neighbor's sister, didn't buy a house, but other things.
One, offered up some phantom Vietnamese family for rent.
Both no showed without commnication
Said he just didn't remember.
Not sense of remorse.

Next thing she did was want my mom to "rep" her in a court case by going to Frederick, MD for a case. ...we're not attorneys, don't know the details, and my mom isn't an speaker. WTF. There never was a relationship because all she was is a neighbors relative.

I hold this person in utter contempt and hatred.

Most marketing and sales is just thinly veiled and socially accepted abuse of human nature by sociopaths, or at least developed by sociopaths and implemented by complicit assholes.

 

[MrSquished]

Most marketing and sales is just thinly veiled and socially accepted abuse of human nature by sociopaths, or at least developed by sociopaths and implemented by complicit assholes.

Indeed, a lot of marketing is messed up. It preys on people's insecurities and creates a frenzy for just consumerism. Two bad things for society. Many salespeople are unethical.

Being in real estate was never in my career plans. And it's not my favorite job. How I finally became at peace with it is, I'm an ethical honest worker who tells it like it is to his clients, in a world that lacks a lot of ethics and straight shooters, and in an industry that has a lot of dumbfucks. So the product I'm selling is good. The product is me, my knowledge, my expertise and my honesty.

 

[nakedfrog]

Probably the only thing they deserve a little sympathy for.

But otherwise, the people who get into the business are basically quasi-psychopaths(the term psycopath triggers emotional responses not reflective of actual psychopathy. They are not "psycho" in the sense they are out of control).

Usually, the humans are
very convincing commnicators
who don't back up their words or act in bad faith when the commnication is taken in context.
No remorse or the conscience is ignored.

Laypeople are discourage to think "inbetween in the lines" or alternative theories. So when some realtor is trying to sell some mediocre location, they're with "positive words" that actually mean low grade. It's actually the same with beef, with Prime, Choice, Select. They all sound good.

My mom and I actually experience a walking caricuature of a realtor. Chinese woman, neighbor's sister, didn't buy a house, but other things.
One, offered up some phantom Vietnamese family for rent.
Both no showed without commnication
Said he just didn't remember.
Not sense of remorse.

Next thing she did was want my mom to "rep" her in a court case by going to Frederick, MD for a case. ...we're not attorneys, don't know the details, and my mom isn't an speaker. WTF. There never was a relationship because all she was is a neighbors relative.

I hold this person in utter contempt and hatred.

I've bought and sold multiple homes, and my experience with realtors doesn't align with yours (gosh, here's my shocked face: -_-)
They don't do much for me as a buyer, but as a seller, they were useful (it's bad enough selling a guitar or a car, hell if I want to deal with house buyers) even if I don't think they quite earn their keep in the hot, overinflated market out here.

 

[Torn Mind]

I've bought and sold multiple homes, and my experience with realtors doesn't align with yours (gosh, here's my shocked face: -_-)
They don't do much for me as a buyer, but as a seller, they were useful (it's bad enough selling a guitar or a car, hell if I want to deal with house buyers) even if I don't think they quite earn their keep in the hot, overinflated market out here.

The caricature was not involved in the purchase or sale of any properties. The things she brought up were a phantom tenant who wasted time and asking my mom to go to court for her in exchange for some compensation. The latter request is absurd and techniclly illegall(that's practicing law, and my mom would have been stopped from continuing to represent by a judge)....don't know the case, it's in a different county, but that woman made that request.

All of this was before 2022, when I stumbled into legal research, so back then neither I nor my mom had any legal training.

From an impersonal standpoint, the reason "South African" fraud deeds occur is because they(by commission) and the land records arm of the court(taxes and fees) get money from that fraudulent transaction. Realtors can easily background bheck someone as they have experience in dealing with rental or buying/selling of property. They are much more experienced than inexperienced non-realtors.

 

[MrSquished]

How many sardines do you eat btw brother?

 

[Pohemi]

Indeed, a lot of marketing is messed up. It preys on people's insecurities and creates a frenzy for just consumerism. Two bad things for society. Many salespeople are unethical.

That's why I was never very good at sales, the idea of using manipulation or dishonesty in trying to sell a product sapped my confidence and I'd never make great impressions on the buyer. My reluctance is what got in my way, not trying and failing to be honest.

I worked in bicycle shops as a mechanic for the better part of 20 years, and I knew the products we carried like the back of my hand. If the store manager asked me to help out on the sales floor, I'd feel like a fish out of water immediately. I could tell buyers about the product and make recommendations, but I could/would not attempt any pressure on buyers.

The short period that I worked for GeekSquad was the same way. It was right after BestBuy had bought out the company, and they were more concerned about "add-ons" when servicing people's PCs than anything. It wasn't good enough to recommend and give clients only the services or parts they needed, they wanted us to upsell more unnecessary services or software, and I had a big problem with that. Probably the biggest reason I didn't stick with that job.

Sorry for the side topic rant.

 

[MrSquished]

That's why I was never very good at sales, the idea of using manipulation or dishonesty in trying to sell a product sapped my confidence and I'd never make great impressions on the buyer. My reluctance is what got in my way, not trying and failing to be honest.

I worked in bicycle shops as a mechanic for the better part of 20 years, and I knew the products we carried like the back of my hand. If the store manager asked me to help out on the sales floor, I'd feel like a fish out of water immediately. I could tell buyers about the product and make recommendations, but I could/would not attempt any pressure on buyers.

The short period that I worked for GeekSquad was the same way. It was right after BestBuy had bought out the company, and they were more concerned about "add-ons" when servicing people's PCs than anything. It wasn't good enough to recommend and give clients only the services or parts they needed, they wanted us to upsell more unnecessary services or software, and I had a big problem with that. Probably the biggest reason I didn't stick with that job.

Sorry for the side topic rant.

I'm the same. The only previous sales job I had was early twenties, Sprint phone store. They always wanted us to push accessories and stuff because they were so high margin. I did actually believe in CDMA technology then, and the network in our area, so I just focused on selling what I believed in.

Getting into sales again at an older age in RE, I fought some of the traditional sales channels and methods some agents pushed. It got to the point where I was not open to any dialogue at all, which was the other extreme. I've managed to find a good balance. I use some of the traditional sales methods but adapted, and I rely on my work and expertise and ethics to get my gigs. I don't feel I've ever misled a client or not had their interests in mind. Realtors have a bad rap, so sometimes I'm giving the right advice but people think you just want the commission at any expense and could care less about their needs. I don't blame them, but I know clients who have lost out on homes they really really wanted because of that.

 

[Torn Mind]

That's why I was never very good at sales, the idea of using manipulation or dishonesty in trying to sell a product sapped my confidence and I'd never make great impressions on the buyer. My reluctance is what got in my way, not trying and failing to be honest.

I worked in bicycle shops as a mechanic for the better part of 20 years, and I knew the products we carried like the back of my hand. If the store manager asked me to help out on the sales floor, I'd feel like a fish out of water immediately. I could tell buyers about the product and make recommendations, but I could/would not attempt any pressure on buyers.

The short period that I worked for GeekSquad was the same way. It was right after BestBuy had bought out the company, and they were more concerned about "add-ons" when servicing people's PCs than anything. It wasn't good enough to recommend and give clients only the services or parts they needed, they wanted us to upsell more unnecessary services or software, and I had a big problem with that. Probably the biggest reason I didn't stick with that job.

Sorry for the side topic rant.

I consider myself a mix breed..

It's also why I have the username I chose.

Because I have both love and fuzzy tendencies...(mammalian caring)

and also an understanidng of cold, manipulative, unethical tendencies dressed up "polite and caring speech". Or in words, I distinguish between those genuine in their "care" and those faking it(often for a buck). The fakers than trigger my wrath.



And when there is what I perceive as a moral long, that's when mercilessness and desctruction wakes up. I can't design my own unethical artifices, but if someone else does something, I can reverse engineer the person's act.

My father sent checks to my mom for feeding the dog. 50 dollar checks. Later on, he would use those checks at a hearing to show my mom didn't fully report all the proceeds she received in her app for food stamps. The state penalized her monetarily, and hasn't paid off the debt she was order to pay.

 

[Torn Mind]

Have a can of sardines and some impossible beef. You'll feel better.

It doesn't matter which diet I eat. Getting triggered into raging mode operates completely the same.

I had hothead tendencies as a teenager, and that was when there was no dietary care. Plenty of starches back then.

I also gravitate more towards mackerel and mollusks like clams or mussel if it's a natural flavor preference.

 

[BoomerD]

I've had good realtors and absolute fucktards. The couple who owned the shop when we bought this house turned out to be hippies. I called once looking for an update on whether out offer had been accepted..."Doood...everyone here is on beach time. Chill out. You're just too uptight...I'll get an answer for you by tomorrow." (it was 2 or 3 days later...turns out the selling realtor was tetiring for healyh reasons and wasn't very responsive)

I wouldn't recommend them to anyone ever under any circumstances...but they recently sold their realty officeto a corporation...qho proceeded to close all the small local offices and now do everything from a central office in the Puget Sound area someplace

 

[darkswordsman17]

They're trying to build a case against the major rental ownership groups that have been using algorithms to fuck up rent prices as well.

Unfortunately even if it gets a major ruling, I doubt either this or that will change housing prices or rents much.

 

[JEDI]

After a $1.8 billion verdict, the clock is ticking on the 6% real estate commission​

NAR lawsuit: After a $1.8 billion verdict, the clock is ticking on the 6% real estate commission | CNN Business

lite.cnn.com

They're appealing the verdict so for the short term, nothing changes.

 

[MrSquished]

I mean I just know the New York metro area market but this whole 6% commission thing I've stated is just a mythical unicorn.

On the buyer's side you rarely see more than 2% anymore. You still see some 2.5% but they are the much smaller slice.

6% commissions you'd see 3% payouts.

Unless the rest of the country is totally different.